Okay, I don't know what is so offensive about not knowing what pronouns to use

Calico

Est. Contributor
Messages
4,444
Likes
29
#1
There was a viral video about that woman that went off at a customer at Gamestop for being called sir and getting mad at the cashier too for being called sir. I have been called sir before too as a cisgender woman so I can be sure this is a gender neutral term. But anyway I responded to a Tweet on twitter about the pronouns "they/them" saying how I used to use the terms "he/she" whenever I didn't know someone's gender because I didn't want to use to the wrong pronouns because I was afraid to offend them and that Gamestop video validated my fear. Then I ran out of room in my Tweet and said in the second Tweet I can't tell if someone is trans or non binary or a cross dresser and now I know about the "they/them" pronouns. I didn't know these pronouns then back then until I learned about "they/them" so now I know what correct pronouns to use for someone if I don't know their gender.

But anyway I get attacked on Twitter by two trolls so I reported them for their comment that didn't contribute to anything because they had nothing constructive to say.

Screenshot_2019-01-02-16-48-25.jpg


But anyway when someone doesn't know what pronouns to use, just tell them, don't go off on someone for not knowing. I have anxiety so I have fears about lot of stuff so I am always worried about offending people and fear confrontations and I have seen plenty of cisgender people act that crazy like that woman did in the video for anything that has upset them and guess what, I felt uneasy each time I was exposed to that situation. So anyone who starts screaming and hurling out insults and threats and starts kicking at stuff or even see a fight, I am going to feel scared and uneasy and tense and it doesn't matter if they are disabled or white or American or Muslim or black, etc. It's the behavior, not who is doing it. My reactions and feelings are universal to crazy behavior when I don't know them. Plus I would say their comment was also ableist because they attacked me for my anxiety, something I have no control over so my mind is going to make up shit by creating imaginary situations I have never been in yet and then I see a video of a woman going off for being called sir and that confirms "yes you do have to be very afraid for accidentally misgendering someone because they could be insane because you never know if they have troubles with anger." And to be honest, I would have no idea if that woman is trans or non binary or a cross dresser so I wouldn't know what pronouns to use for them. Those people in the video had no way of knowing too and for all I know, sir could just be the term they use for everyone. I have been called sir myself. I have also been called bro and dude and hey man. And one of them used my diaper fetish to attack me with. And after I had reported those Tweets, their comments were gone. I am sure they are still there and they are just hidden now under my account.

So what the hell is so offensive about not knowing someone's pronouns because I can't tell if someone is trans or non binary or a cross dresser? I am not a mind reader. This is what I got attacked about, for not even knowing. Is this even rocket science to understand about cis gender people?

Sorry, I just feel like ranting because I can't stand online idiots.
 

Biggles

Est. Contributor
Messages
201
Likes
0
#3
I think too many people are hypersensitive to stuff that’s mostly irrelevant. The fact the person addressed someone as sir! Regardless of gender identity is a respectful gratitude or exchange. If a young person addressed me as sir or ma’am I would smile and thank them and not be offended as a respectful exchange is far better than being told to [email protected]$k off.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

trysexiea

Est. Contributor
Messages
189
Likes
0
#4
to answer your question simply, education is the problem. when you are at school have told you to address to the female sex person, by Madam, to the male sex people by Sir. There is, or had, no room for another genre.

Personally I try to not put pronouns "he or she" it avoids the problem.

As a Trans MtF I prefer to avoid adding a pronouns to talk to me, rather than someone call me sir, currently I do not know people who call me sir, since I have not yet completely defined my feminine dress, but it will change very quickly.
 

Calico

Est. Contributor
Messages
4,444
Likes
29
#5
to answer your question simply, education is the problem. when you are at school have told you to address to the female sex person, by Madam, to the male sex people by Sir. There is, or had, no room for another genre.

Personally I try to not put pronouns "he or she" it avoids the problem.

As a Trans MtF I prefer to avoid adding a pronouns to talk to me, rather than someone call me sir, currently I do not know people who call me sir, since I have not yet completely defined my feminine dress, but it will change very quickly.
How would you like to be addressed when people meet you or don't know you or want to get your attention?


I have totally gotten people offended by saying "guys" to a bunch of females lol but they didn't go all berserk about it, they would just say 'we are not guys.' To me 'guys' was a word the adult would always address when talking to more than one person, same as with other kids.
 

trysexiea

Est. Contributor
Messages
189
Likes
0
#6
How would you like to be addressed when people meet you or don't know you or want to get your attention?


I have totally gotten people offended by saying "guys" to a bunch of females lol but they didn't go all berserk about it, they would just say 'we are not guys.' To me 'guys' was a word the adult would always address when talking to more than one person, same as with other kids.
Kappa.

- - - Updated - - -

How would you like to be addressed when people meet you or don't know you or want to get your attention?


I have totally gotten people offended by saying "guys" to a bunch of females lol but they didn't go all berserk about it, they would just say 'we are not guys.' To me 'guys' was a word the adult would always address when talking to more than one person, same as with other kids.
If you want my attention you say, Hello, excuse me, I do not see what is complicated :)
 

SpAzpieSweeTot

Est. Contributor
Messages
1,235
Likes
15
#7
I'm okay with saying what needs saying, and then, apologizing, if I disgender someone. If I do, it's always by accident.

For example, "Excuse me, sir. There's a bit of toilet paper stuck to the bottom of your shoe."

"It's ma'am! I'm so offended!"

"Oh. . . My. . . Goodness! I. . . Am so. . . Sorry. Here I am, trying to save you embarrassment from having toilet paper stuck to your shoe, and I accidentally disgender you, in the process! I really am sorry about that."

If I think I might come in contact with the person more than once, especially online, and I want to be friendly, I'll either pay attention to the pronouns the person uses, like I know OmiOmy likes, "zim/zer," or I'll ask what pronouns the person uses, privately.

Any other way seems a bit too close quarters.

For, "Hello, excuse me," to work, there can't be a big crowd, or I'd have to roll up and tap the person's shoulder, if I could even reach it.

I use a wheelchair, and besides, how do I know how a perfect stranger feels about being touched?

Once, the woman ahead of my grandma and I in line, had her tag sticking out of her shirt. Grandma reached out, and poked it back in, scaring the poor lady to death, then, told her her tag had been out.

I thought, "Really? We're touching perfect strangers now, grandma? You really scared her! What business was it of yours to tuck her tag in!? You weren't saving her embarrassment. You were just annoyed by her tag!"
If you want my attention you say, Hello, excuse me, I do not see what is complicated :)
Autism complicates things.
 
Last edited:

Calico

Est. Contributor
Messages
4,444
Likes
29
#8
Social issues, not knowing how to act in a situation or what to say. Especially if you have always been surrounded by pronouns and saying sir or guys to anyone. So it becomes a habit and then you don't know any other way. I am sure most people feel awkward when they see someone who looks like a man dressed like a woman because they don't know how to address them because they are aware of people feeling like a different gender and being referred to as the opposite gender or feeling none. Those who know nothing about the transgender are not going to even think about it and will just use whatever pronoun that comes to their mind. Not because they don't care and are being malicious.

I think people get too worried about offending someone so they feel awkward around someone different. I just say treat them how you would with anyone else and you shouldn't have a problem. Someone will always throw the race card or the transphobic card, etc. around. And I will say that woman in the video does not represent the whole trans community. That is just one person who might have mental issues like issues with anger. It could be autism or an anxiety disorder, depression or she could have simply been having a bad day or she is just an asshole. Anyone can be an asshole and be crazy. This is just a reminder for everyone with anxiety and everyone else.
 

OmiOMy

Est. Contributor
Messages
465
Likes
3
#9
I'm okay with saying what needs saying, and then, apologizing, if I disgender someone. If I do, it's always by accident.

For example, "Excuse me, sir. There's a bit of toilet paper stuck to the bottom of your shoe."

"It's ma'am! I'm so offended!"

"Oh. . . My. . . Goodness! I. . . Am so. . . Sorry. Here I am, trying to save you embarrassment from having toilet paper stuck to your shoe, and I accidentally disgender you, in the process! I really am sorry about that."

If I think I might come in contact with the person more than once, especially online, and I want to be friendly, I'll either pay attention to the pronouns the person uses, like I know OmiOmy likes, "zim/zer," or I'll ask what pronouns the person uses, privately.

Any other way seems a bit too close quarters.

For, "Hello, excuse me," to work, there can't be a big crowd, or I'd have to roll up and tap the person's shoulder, if I could even reach it.

I use a wheelchair, and besides, how do I know how a perfect stranger feels about being touched?

Once, the woman ahead of my grandma and I in line, had her tag sticking out of her shirt. Grandma reached out, and poked it back in, scaring the poor lady to death, then, told her her tag had been out.

I thought, "Really? We're touching perfect strangers now, grandma? You really scared her! What business was it of yours to tuck her tag in!? You weren't saving her embarrassment. You were just annoyed by her tag!"
Autism complicates things.
I see I've been name dropped :) I feel warm and fuzzy.

Anywho, onto the meat:

Pronouns, especially when one is trans, are a hard won part of one's identity. When someone disregards them or gods FORBID gets them wrong on purpose, it feels like a personal affront--especially if our presentation makes our pronouns obvious.

Sir, dude, and guys are not gender neutral terms. Test this by saying "I only sleep with dudes/guys" and see for yourself how it isn't.

He/She is clunky and excludes those who are neither--that's why we've moved to using they: it's faster, it includes everybody, and it covers your butt in the case where you don't know the person's pronouns until you get the opportunity to ask or overhear or otherwise find out.

It's polite to ask "I'd like to be respectful to you, so may I ask your pronouns?" It's time to normalize this.
 

HTML

Est. Contributor
Messages
74
Likes
1
#10
For a group of people, I usually use "lads". It works, and gets everyone's attention.

Even for one person, lad works too. No one has ever gotten offended by it, either.

I personally think there are too many labels. To each their own, I suppose.
 

dogboy

Est. Contributor
Messages
18,548
Likes
198
#11
I grew up on the Jersey Shore and we all talked like Donald Trump. We'd just say, "Hey stupid" or "Hey mother f*cker". See....problem solved.

Okay...mostly kidding. But yeah, one can use the impersonal pronouns and then the problem is solved. But people are too sensitive. I suppose when I was young and had long shoulder length hair, someone could have mistaken me for a girl, but if that happened, I probably would have found it funny and I certainly wouldn't have minded. I was a hippie and wore gender neutral clothing and it probably turned heads. My mom used to get mad at the whole thing....sigh. You should see my wedding picture!
 

trysexiea

Est. Contributor
Messages
189
Likes
0
#12
I'm okay with saying what needs saying, and then, apologizing, if I disgender someone. If I do, it's always by accident.

For example, "Excuse me, sir. There's a bit of toilet paper stuck to the bottom of your shoe."

"It's ma'am! I'm so offended!"

"Oh. . . My. . . Goodness! I. . . Am so. . . Sorry. Here I am, trying to save you embarrassment from having toilet paper stuck to your shoe, and I accidentally disgender you, in the process! I really am sorry about that."

If I think I might come in contact with the person more than once, especially online, and I want to be friendly, I'll either pay attention to the pronouns the person uses, like I know OmiOmy likes, "zim/zer," or I'll ask what pronouns the person uses, privately.

Any other way seems a bit too close quarters.

For, "Hello, excuse me," to work, there can't be a big crowd, or I'd have to roll up and tap the person's shoulder, if I could even reach it.

I use a wheelchair, and besides, how do I know how a perfect stranger feels about being touched?

Once, the woman ahead of my grandma and I in line, had her tag sticking out of her shirt. Grandma reached out, and poked it back in, scaring the poor lady to death, then, told her her tag had been out.

I thought, "Really? We're touching perfect strangers now, grandma? You really scared her! What business was it of yours to tuck her tag in!? You weren't saving her embarrassment. You were just annoyed by her tag!"
Autism complicates things.
it's supposed to be a subliminal message ?

- - - Updated - - -

I see I've been name dropped :) I feel warm and fuzzy.

Anywho, onto the meat:

Pronouns, especially when one is trans, are a hard won part of one's identity. When someone disregards them or gods FORBID gets them wrong on purpose, it feels like a personal affront--especially if our presentation makes our pronouns obvious.

Sir, dude, and guys are not gender neutral terms. Test this by saying "I only sleep with dudes/guys" and see for yourself how it isn't.

He/She is clunky and excludes those who are neither--that's why we've moved to using they: it's faster, it includes everybody, and it covers your butt in the case where you don't know the person's pronouns until you get the opportunity to ask or overhear or otherwise find out.

It's polite to ask "I'd like to be respectful to you, so may I ask your pronouns?" It's time to normalize this.
For a trans-arrival person it is very important that people do not mistake pronouns, otherwise you can not really take it because it means you're not representative enough, of the gender that you want to represent.
 

SpAzpieSweeTot

Est. Contributor
Messages
1,235
Likes
15
#15
What is it that you think I think is supposed to be subliminal? Is it Calico's autism? Nope, that's evidenced by the fact that she's part of the Asperger's and Autism group on here. Is it that the lady's shirt tag was up? Nope. Grandma should've asked permission before touching a perfect stranger. I didn't expect anything to be a subliminal message. I do, however, wish I spoke French, so the language barrier wouldn't be in the way. I'm sorry.
 

trysexiea

Est. Contributor
Messages
189
Likes
0
#16
What is it that you think I think is supposed to be subliminal? Is it Calico's autism? Nope, that's evidenced by the fact that she's part of the Asperger's and Autism group on here. Is it that the lady's shirt tag was up? Nope. Grandma should've asked permission before touching a perfect stranger. I didn't expect anything to be a subliminal message. I do, however, wish I spoke French, so the language barrier wouldn't be in the way. I'm sorry.
I guess you use the quote in the opposite direction. For me the quote is always before the answer
 

Schwanensee

Est. Contributor
Messages
419
Likes
2
#17
I grew up on the Jersey Shore and we all talked like Donald Trump. We'd just say, "Hey stupid" or "Hey mother f*cker". See....problem solved.

Okay...mostly kidding. But yeah, one can use the impersonal pronouns and then the problem is solved. But people are too sensitive. I suppose when I was young and had long shoulder length hair, someone could have mistaken me for a girl, but if that happened, I probably would have found it funny and I certainly wouldn't have minded. I was a hippie and wore gender neutral clothing and it probably turned heads. My mom used to get mad at the whole thing....sigh. You should see my wedding picture!
I can't even tell you how many times I've been called "Sir" or some variation of that! It's especially funny when I'm in the women's undergarment section and an employee comes up to me with "How can I help you, young man?" (Also, while I was shopping for my graduation dress the employee insisted on putting me in jumpsuits rather than dresses to "better fit my style". Lady, do you know how many frilly dresses I wear?)
Anyway, I don't really get offended. In some scenarios I will correct people, but mostly they notice by the time I start speaking.

I guess you use the quote in the opposite direction. For me the quote is always before the answer
You asked a question, and they didn't understand the question and asked you to explain. Again, what do you mean by "subliminal message"?
 
Messages
2,218
Likes
23
#18
A dictator in the movie "Bananas" declared a new law requiring everyone to wear their underwear outside of their clothes. It was meant to be funny, but that might not be such a bad idea in our modern, enlightened times. It would help clarify what pronouns to use, especially if underwear tags were required to be large and clearly state if the garment was for men, women, boys, girls, or "other". Of course, diapers would be a special case because they probably wouldn't be as effective if worn on the outside. To get around that the public would simply assume that anyone not displaying their underwear outside their clothes is wearing a diaper. All we have to do then is come up with a non-offensive term, like "leaker", in place of a pronoun for those who don't wear their underwear outside their clothes. People that wore no underwear but didn't want to be addressed as leakers would be required to have a hole in their clothes large enough to show they were bare down below. People with a hole would be called "A-holes" unless they had a tattoo on their butt specifying their preferred gender.

Problem solved! What's next on the list - global warming?
 

Calico

Est. Contributor
Messages
4,444
Likes
29
#19
People automatically use pronouns for males and females but if you can't pass off as the gender you want to present, maybe it would be a good idea to wear a pronoun sign so people know if it's that important you are called him or her. If people have a hard time knowing your gender because of what you wear, it might not be a bad idea to wear a pronoun sign if your pronouns are that important to you. If you are non binary and don't want to be called a he or a her, it would be a good idea to wear a them/their sign.

Online people easily put in their pronouns in their signature or profiles or their gender or they stick it in their user name.

There are even people out there that get upset when they pass off as normal and people can't tell they have a disability, go figure. That doesn't bother me one bit of someone can't tell I am disabled just by looking at me. If people can tell, they think I am slow or have ADHD and that is after they have gotten to know me and they see me often. But yet some people still get offended if people guess wrong about their disorder. I mean if your disability label is that important to you, just wear a fricken sign or whatever or just tell them your disability.

This is something I probably will never understand about people. But then again, even NTs don't always understand other people. They don't always understand why people get offended about things or why someone is upset or whatever. Some just accept it and some don't accept it so they don't change their ways and they are what people call assholes.
 

SpAzpieSweeTot

Est. Contributor
Messages
1,235
Likes
15
#20
B
I think too many people are hypersensitive to stuff that’s mostly irrelevant. The fact the person addressed someone as sir! Regardless of gender identity is a respectful gratitude or exchange. If a young person addressed me as sir or ma’am I would smile and thank them and not be offended as a respectful exchange is far better than being told to [email protected]$k off.
This is important. Ma'am shows respect. So does sir. I'd rather someone call me sir, than not be respected at all. If someone did call me sir, I'd just assume the person didn't get a good look at me. Not to mention, some Autistics are faceblind, to the point that long hair, or lipstick, or ponytail, or dress, some kind of external cue, = girl. For me, facial hair, or certain shoes, is my cue for, "male."

I've caught myself paying special attention to mom's clothes, because, if she's wearing a hat, I can't see red hair that means, "mom," but, if, for example, she's wearing a purple baseball cap, and I know it, or I've memorized her shirt she's wearing that day, I can use that to know it's her.

And, for a few Auties, pronouns, in and of themselves, are confusing.

"Do you want to go get a new book, John?"

"You're you! I'm John!"

The conversation partner might also hear, "I'm not John T. I'm John!"and, have to say, "Ah, but my name is John, just like yours. I'm John Martin. You're John Talbot. When someone means you, they'll say John T., or John Talbot. When someone means me, they'll say John M., or John Martin."

See? It's difficult for the hypothetical John, to understand that he can be John, and yet, to the person he's talking to, be, "you."

He's thinking, "How in the world am I supposed to be he, and him, and you, and John, all at the same time!?"
 
Last edited:
Top