Anyone find the #MeToo thing pretty annoying?

BabyTyrant

Est. Contributor
Messages
1,607
Likes
7
#1
I'm saying this not to say that these people dont have a right to be heard; and if they actually did get raped to confront the guilty party and impose as great a punishment as could be opposed.

But Come On, if they really did get raped, that does not belong getting blasted on the internet like Due Process is no longer a thing.

All #MeToo seems to do is make it easier for everyone to bandwagon on calling specific people "Rapists" on social media after these so called "Rapes" happened years/decades ago

It doesn't belong on FaceBook, nor Twitter, nor MySpace (how many people even still use MySpace?) , it belongs being brought to the attention of the law and going to court if there is any legitimacy to their claims.

Another thing is a radio station in Ohio had to pull an old winter/Christmas song "Its Cold Outside" because allegedly it promotes "rape culture", I mean come on, they are complaining about lyrics in a 70something year old song.

It's like where was everybody's voices years ago?

I mean it's kinda Akin to how "A Charlie Brown Thanksgiving" is suddenly viewed as "Racist" when it wasnt viewed as Racist for 40 odd years, I mean what's next on this long line of viewing seemingly everything as suddenly being Racist or supporting "rape culture"
 

Traemo

Est. Contributor
Messages
947
Likes
10
#2
I'm saying this not to say that these people dont have a right to be heard; and if they actually did get raped to confront the guilty party and impose as great a punishment as could be opposed.

But Come On, if they really did get raped, that does not belong getting blasted on the internet like Due Process is no longer a thing.

All #MeToo seems to do is make it easier for everyone to bandwagon on calling specific people "Rapists" on social media after these so called "Rapes" happened years/decades ago
Maybe, because they were terrified to speak up before - take a look at how badly victims are treated after coming forward before ranting. I don't think it's at all unexpected that most assaults go unreported, the process of investigating, charging, and convicting for sexual assault is as much an examination of the victim as the perpetrator. Would you really want your entire life torn apart and examined after a serious trauma?
Another thing is a radio station in Ohio had to pull an old winter/Christmas song "Its Cold Outside" because allegedly it promotes "rape culture", I mean come on, they are complaining about lyrics in a 70something year old song.

It's like where was everybody's voices years ago?
70-something years ago, they understood the messed up subtext that makes up that song. For the record, at the time women were expected, and socially required, to be utterly asexual. Any woman that expressed ANY sort of desire was instantly and irrevocably branded. Taken in social context the song is basically the woman generating excuses on why she should stay while simultaneously denying any interest in a sexual encounter.
On a related note, if she can't say yes (and therefore has to imply it with a series of noes, how does she unambiguously say no?)
 

BabyTyrant

Est. Contributor
Messages
1,607
Likes
7
#3
I still don't think #MeToo has any use besides to make it easier to bandwagon/slander the so called "Rapists", I mean really what does such a practice accomplish that matters in a serious way? It's not going to make sure the rapist gets punished so they can no longer commit those vile acts.

I can imagine regoing through the details of such a traumatic experience would probably be a terrible thing for the victims to have to go through over again, but that is the cost of coming forward and being able to charge the rapist to the fullest extent of the law, which actually accomplishes things

Not to mention what if it is a serial rapist with many victims? 1 or 2 of the victims coming forward could make sure the rapist goes away and can no longer harm other victims.

Yeah I guess you could say the lyrics of the song are at least a bit suspicious, but do they really have to be buzz kills instead of ignoring it and letting people enjoy a song they have probably enjoyed on the radio for decades? Maybe even their whole lives?

They can literally just ignore the song or change the radio station and let people enjoy the song.
 

Slomo

Est. Contributor
Messages
6,557
Likes
16
#4
I'm saying this not to say that these people dont have a right to be heard; and if they actually did get raped to confront the guilty party and impose as great a punishment as could be opposed.

But Come On, if they really did get raped, that does not belong getting blasted on the internet like Due Process is no longer a thing.

All #MeToo seems to do is make it easier for everyone to bandwagon on calling specific people "Rapists" on social media after these so called "Rapes" happened years/decades ago

It doesn't belong on FaceBook, nor Twitter, nor MySpace (how many people even still use MySpace?) , it belongs being brought to the attention of the law and going to court if there is any legitimacy to their claims.

Another thing is a radio station in Ohio had to pull an old winter/Christmas song "Its Cold Outside" because allegedly it promotes "rape culture", I mean come on, they are complaining about lyrics in a 70something year old song.

It's like where was everybody's voices years ago?

I mean it's kinda Akin to how "A Charlie Brown Thanksgiving" is suddenly viewed as "Racist" when it wasnt viewed as Racist for 40 odd years, I mean what's next on this long line of viewing seemingly everything as suddenly being Racist or supporting "rape culture"
Actually it does have to be blasted on the internet. If not, then recent history shows us these women will not get any justice. They did approach the guilty person, they did try to press charges, and they did try speaking out.

What you're not realizing is just how suppressed those abused women have been in the past. That's why the #metoo movement is so big now, because they had no voice before and have had to band together and speak up so loudly. Because they were ridiculed and ignored before, all because someone else abused them sexually. So yes, it does belong on social media, and mass media as well. And the very fact you are annoyed by it just proves it's importance.
 

Sapphyre

Est. Contributor
Messages
1,162
Likes
7
#5
I still don't think #MeToo has any use besides to make it easier to bandwagon/slander the so called "Rapists", I mean really what does such a practice accomplish that matters in a serious way?
One of the purposes is to raise awareness of some common misconceptions about how the criminal justice system, and society at large, actually respond to rape in practice. Among said misconceptions are:


I can imagine regoing through the details of such a traumatic experience would probably be a terrible thing for the victims to have to go through over again, but that is the cost of coming forward and being able to charge the rapist to the fullest extent of the law, which actually accomplishes things
(emphasis added), and also:



Not to mention what if it is a serial rapist with many victims? 1 or 2 of the victims coming forward could make sure the rapist goes away and can no longer harm other victims.
If Mr. Cosby is any indication, the decimal point is misplaced in that statistic; it's more like 10 to 20 victims before anything happens at all. Of course, the rules aren't the same for everyone… which is a problem unto itself… but as I suggested above, the trauma of reliving the experience for a skeptical audience often turns out to be a lot of pain for nothing.

I have never had the experience of being raped, myself, but I have been kidnapped once and had my life threatened. The perpetrators are identifiable, but they won't be prosecuted because there is no way to prove in court that it actually happened. That's largely because no one cared enough to gather the evidence that might have been there to find ( I did what I could to photograph bruises and such, but that doesn't prove much). The experience taught me the difference between what the law says and what the law actually is in practice (once upon a time, I thought those two had to be the same by definition, but I got over that). One important factor that determines what the law actually is is how thoroughly claims of rape (or kidnapping, etc) are investigated… in turn a function of how seriously they are taken… in turn a function of cultural attitude. That's why bringing awareness to these issues and changing the culture is so critical, it actually changes the law in practice to more closely resemble the law as written.
 
Messages
2,218
Likes
23
#6
70 years ago everyone knew that an invitation to spend an evening alone with a man, drinking and engaging in cozy conversation, was most likely an invitation for sex. Willingness to go along with that scenario was an implicit 'yes' to sex. It was all part of the mating game that men and women understood and played.

The definition of "rape" has changed over time. Back then it was an extremely serious crime, almost as serious as murder when it came to sentencing. It's still a serious matter to be convicted of rape but, thanks to the internet, the word has been watered down quite a bit in its social context. The 'rape culture' we talk about today had its roots in things like the 'casting couch' mentality in the movie industry where people sometimes had to provide sex to get a chance at a role. Today, many people would see that behavior as rape, rather than seeing it as a form of prostitution.
 

BabyTyrant

Est. Contributor
Messages
1,607
Likes
7
#7
I don't get how #MeToo provides any kind of credibility to the victims, anyone can go online and #MeToo to anyone and especially if someone is already accused on social media it could cause a bandwagon/snowball effect where all of a sudden 20 people are accusing the same person of rape; and a big part of punishing Rapists comes down to the specific laws where the rape happened.

There is a thing called "statute of limitations" , if you get raped and wait 5+ years either the rapist can get away from prosecution completely, or the punishment is way less severe than if the Rapist was charged a lot sooner.

That is a big part of why Cosby had so many victims before he saw any punishment, most of his victims waited far too long; also when the accused is a person with a lot of money it becomes possible that the motive for the "victim" to accuse the "rapist" could be that the "victim" is just after money; which could make it hard for the legal system to find out who is being truthful and who isn't.

Lastly there is usually evidence that could be collected soon after a rape, but the part that decides whether it is s crime or not is consent, no consent = rape; if the victims wait to long their accusations can basically become nothing more than Hearsay.

And as for "couch casting" the "victims" went along with it to get a "reward" , so that is definitely a lot more like Prostitution than Rape, the "victims" knew what they were doing, they weren't literally forced to engage in sex; I'm not saying it isn't wrong, but it's not quite as bad as Rape.
 
Messages
2,218
Likes
23
#8
The problem with consent is in how to determine whether or not it was given. Must it be explicitly stated? ... or can it be implied from the circumstances?
 

BabyTyrant

Est. Contributor
Messages
1,607
Likes
7
#9
The problem with consent is in how to determine whether or not it was given. Must it be explicitly stated? ... or can it be implied from the circumstances?
That's why you can't act as if it is given based on implied circumstances; better to be safe than sorry.

Yes or no makes it pretty clear, anything else isn't worth risking it.

My cousin knew a guy that got reported for rape for not giving a Woman a ride, next thing the guy knew he was getting interrogated by the cops and they found out the Woman was lying; so these days it's not like there wouldn't be an investigation if something is reported.
 

dogboy

Est. Contributor
Messages
18,542
Likes
197
#10
The problem with the casting coach was that even though a budding young actress might have known where the late at night encounter was gong to lead, if she didn't let it happen, she wouldn't get the part and worse, she could get black balled. Directors and producers certainly had a cozy good 'ol boys club as did many bosses in businesses.

I suspect it's not that women are standing up for being treated properly, but how the media has sold more products off the movement, making glitzy shows about it. As a gay male student and even as a young boy, I experienced what it was like to be sexually assaulted by an older male. Until that happens to any of you, you don't know what it's like. Judging is always easy from an arm chair.
 

BabyTyrant

Est. Contributor
Messages
1,607
Likes
7
#11
The problem with the casting coach was that even though a budding young actress might have known where the late at night encounter was gong to lead, if she didn't let it happen, she wouldn't get the part and worse, she could get black balled. Directors and producers certainly had a cozy good 'ol boys club as did many bosses in businesses.

I suspect it's not that women are standing up for being treated properly, but how the media has sold more products off the movement, making glitzy shows about it. As a gay male student and even as a young boy, I experienced what it was like to be sexually assaulted by an older male. Until that happens to any of you, you don't know what it's like. Judging is always easy from an arm chair.
Well, I suppose it comes down to being serious about acting being their true career, if they could get a good job elsewhere then they didn't really need that acting role after all.
 

Kyleman93

Contributor
Messages
14
Likes
0
#12
I'm just going to say this and leave. Thanks to the #MeToo movement, my gay brother is being accused of raping and sexually assaulting 3 teenage girls after they rear ended his truck. They created a facebook account calling for justice so they can be viewed as the victims here. Their fucking actions got him fired even though he has irrefutable evidence from multiple security cameras that all they did was exchange information until the police showed up. Sure he could sue for Libel, but that won't hold the girls accountable. I need to see fucking evidence or it didn't happen. I'm sorry to those that have been raped, but the reasons I expressed here should show ample cause for my views.
 

Bass

Est. Contributor
Messages
52
Likes
1
#13
I’m slightly irritated by the spam it generates, but it absolutely makes me irate that unconsented sex happens. And it makes me nervous in relationships and life itself. What if I date a girl, take good care of her, never even have sex and then I become rich out of the blue and I have everything and then 5 years later she points a finger saying I raped her? Society ain’t gonna be taking my side, that’s for sure! All the false allegations piss me off more than any of it.
 

CuddleWoozle

Est. Contributor
Messages
1,966
Likes
7
#14
Well, I suppose it comes down to being serious about acting being their true career, if they could get a good job elsewhere then they didn't really need that acting role after all.
Wow. Just freaking wow man.

If you're a serious actress you HAVE to fuck someone to get a job or just give up your dreams and what your good at and go wait tables or something else that makes you miserable and live with the "I could've been..." the rest of your life?

Do you even REALIZE half of what you say sometimes, dude?

Because 99% of the time you come off like a troll. I usually try to avoid your threads because you are CONSISTENTLY negative about EVERYTHING. (And woefully misinformed about half of it.)
 
Messages
2,218
Likes
23
#15
That's why you can't act as if it is given based on implied circumstances; better to be safe than sorry.

Yes or no makes it pretty clear, anything else isn't worth risking it.
I meant there is a problem determining consent in a legal sense in cases where one person in a sexual encounter claims it was rape or assault, and the other claims it was consensual. It's unlikely there will be witnesses as to what was said, so, from a legal standpoint, the only way to determine if consent was given is to examine whatever circumstantial evidence is available. In many cases there simply won't be enough evidence to make a determination one way or the other.
 

Leio

Est. Contributor
Messages
314
Likes
8
#16
The whole #MeToo movement came to be as a way for people to share their stories of sexual assault/harassment and to take back their lives and release themselves of the burden of keeping this secret from themselves and the world. The movement has given people who have had these experiences to come forward.

To answer your implied question on why people don't come forward earlier, there are many reasons. Some people don't tell because they are ashamed. There's a great sense of violation that comes after sexual assault or harassment and they may also feel that others will look down upon them and even deny their stories and question their motivations. Victims may also have preexisting self esteem issues may also deem their own bodies and integrities as having low value. This would lead to people not taking action against people that have violated that as people typically don't go to great lengths protecting something that they deem as low value. There's also learned helplessness and hopelessness, ignorance on the victim's part on the law and what constitutes sexual harassment and the legal recourses that can be taken in those cases, and a history of abuse and victimization.

The power imbalance is also not to be disregarded. In many of these cases, the perpetrator has some kind of real or perceived power over the victim. To use the acting couch as an example, the sexual act that they engage in questionable in terms of consent as the director or producer clearly has more power than the budding young actress. This is why relationships between professors and students, prison guards and prisoners, and teachers and 18 year old high school students, and therapists and clients are seen as unethical. One person in the relationship extreme power over the other one. This puts the other party in great danger as the one with more power can easily exploit the other. This is why people of these hgih profile cases don't come forward. The accused has so much more power in terms of wealth and connections and opportunities that the victim may feel cowed into silence.

Some don't come forward because they are in denial of the situation and doubt what happened. Some may also stay silent as they believe that they are an isolated victim and only come forward when it's clear that the person in question is a serial offender. This could explain the "chain reaction" of one person coming forward with allegations against people like Cosby and then many others who tell their story after that one person.

As for your comment on actresses having to have sex in order to get roles, if that is the case, it is the culture of the acting world that is to blame and not the person who has to have sex with a supervisor or other superior in order to get roles. If there was any other job that required you to have sex to get a job say a factory job or accounting job or a law enforcement job, that would be considered abhorrent by most people. If that happened, most people would say it is the culture that is at fault for pushing people to engage in such behavior and it is the fault for individuals who abuse power vested on them.

As for why people don't come to the police, rapes are notoriously underreported. There's also a backlog of rape kits in America that have yet to be tested and in some cases, the evidence of a rape kit is destroyed. Many victims of rape or sexual assault also inadvertently destroy the evidence by doing things like showering or douching. Victims may try to do things like shower in order to try and "clean" themselves of the horror and violation of the act that they have lived through. Some victims are drugged and therefore have no clear memory of the attack that happened to them. For these reasons and many others, rape investigations aren't as cut and dry as "just go to the police". In addition, rape has a very low statute of limitations thus severely limiting the options of people who have had these things done to them many years prior.

Have there been people that have made up sexual assault allegations? Yes. Does that mean that the majority of people are lying about their experiences? No. Do memories fade over time? Yes, details get foggy over time. Does this mean that people forget about sexual harassment/assault that happens to them? No, people generally don't forget such terrible acts done to them. Those kinds of events are burned into memory unless they suffer from trauma based amnesia and dissasociation but that is a different animal all together.

The bottom line is that the #MeToo movement is a platform for people who have once remained silent for the reasons listed and now are coming forward with the support of other people who have started talking about their experiences. In the cases of the people whose cases have exceeded the statute of limitations, this may be the only sliver of justice that they feel as the judicial system can't help them.

You don't have to believe every single last story that these victims come forward with. But to make a blanket statement and disregard the plight that the people who have experienced these horrific acts is not acceptable. The vast majority don't have great gains to be made from telling their story. It's only that these glitzy high profile stories may inadvertently paint the picture that all victims have some kind of great gain from their allegations.
 
Messages
2,218
Likes
23
#17
The problem with the casting coach was that even though a budding young actress might have known where the late at night encounter was gong to lead, if she didn't let it happen, she wouldn't get the part and worse, she could get black balled. Directors and producers certainly had a cozy good 'ol boys club as did many bosses in businesses.
I think this is where the #MeToo movement could have its greatest impact, making it known society will no longer condone that behavior. But I also think BabyTyrant has a point: If the movement becomes over-generalized and applied to all sexual conduct it could easily end up being just another example of the irrational, political divisiveness that plagues us.
I suspect it's not that women are standing up for being treated properly, but how the media has sold more products off the movement, making glitzy shows about it. As a gay male student and even as a young boy, I experienced what it was like to be sexually assaulted by an older male. Until that happens to any of you, you don't know what it's like. Judging is always easy from an arm chair.
You are right. In our daydreams we imagine how we would react in traumatic situations. In reality, the physiological changes our bodies go through when we realize we are about to become a victim, or a statistic on the evening news, affects our behavior in ways we didn't imagine; tunnel vision, time distortion, etc.. And the psychological aftereffects can often be much worse than people realize too.
 

WoodlandWanderer

Est. Contributor
Messages
745
Likes
40
#18
I don't get how #MeToo provides any kind of credibility to the victims, anyone can go online and #MeToo to anyone and especially if someone is already accused on social media it could cause a bandwagon/snowball effect where all of a sudden 20 people are accusing the same person of rape; and a big part of punishing Rapists comes down to the specific laws where the rape happened.
It's not meant to specifically add credibility to any one person's accusation. It's a way of saying these things happened to me in situation x and that's not okay. It's a way of saying that these aren't isolated incidents and many of them stem from deep-rooted cultures that empower men to use women for their own benefit. It's a way of saying that this is still happenning and it shouldn't be. It's a way of saying if it happens to you don't be ashamed to speak up - you're not alone.

There is a thing called "statute of limitations" , if you get raped and wait 5+ years either the rapist can get away from prosecution completely, or the punishment is way less severe than if the Rapist was charged a lot sooner.
In the US, yes this is true, but not everywhere in the world is the same. The UK has no statute of limitations for serious crimes; if the evidence exists to prove a crime beyond reasonable doubt, you can be prosecuted for it decades later. The only limitation I'm aware of is the mental state of the defendant - you can't criminally try someone with advanced dementia because they lack the ability to defend themselves. However, even then there can be a "trial of the facts" and a court can determine whether or not something happened. Although there will be no guilty verdict, that still provides some closure to the victims.

We have a lot of historical child sex abuse inquires ongoing in the UK, largely into people in positions of power who used that influence to abuse those in care homes - the sort of children who are mostly invisible. Noteably, while much of critisism of the #metoo movement is aimed at a perception of women accusing men for personal gain, many of these victims were boys. For many years a lot were too ashamed to speak out about what happened to them, but the #metoo movement has given them courage and something is coming of it.

Securing convictions isn't the only goal here. If it secures zero past convictions, but leads to a culture where fewer people are being raped or sexually exploited, that has to be worth something.
 

dogboy

Est. Contributor
Messages
18,542
Likes
197
#19
Wow. Just freaking wow man.

If you're a serious actress you HAVE to fuck someone to get a job or just give up your dreams and what your good at and go wait tables or something else that makes you miserable and live with the "I could've been..." the rest of your life?

Do you even REALIZE half of what you say sometimes, dude?

Because 99% of the time you come off like a troll. I usually try to avoid your threads because you are CONSISTENTLY negative about EVERYTHING. (And woefully misinformed about half of it.)
And sadly, this happens to young males in the world of classical music. Back when I was young and starting out (late '60s and early '70s), trying to get a job as a classical musician often meant getting propositioned by the male music director. When I was a college student, I interviewed for a part time church music director job. I was interviewed by the Methodist minister and he asked me if I would move in and live with him. When I said no, I didn't get the job. This goes on all the time in the serious art world, not just musicians, but dancers, actors, etc. It's wrong it it's got to stop.

It's not about getting a different job outside your field and your passion. It's about obeying the decency laws that are on the books. It's about time they got enforced.
 
Messages
17
Likes
0
#20
And sadly, this happens to young males in the world of classical music.
I feel like the biggest letdown from the response to #MeToo is that many individuals, predominantly male, refuse to even entertain the thought that this is something that happens to people regardless of gender. Wether the individual is male or female doesn’t matter when it comes to sexual harassment.
 
Top