School shootings false statistics

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BabyTyrant

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#1
So basically in the 2015-16 school year 240 school shootings were reported, but only 11 could be confirmed.

https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2018/08/27/640323347/the-school-shootings-that-werent

Goes to show the numbers being reported are a giant lie, there is not 4 or 5 school shootings happening every week like the statistics said, yes 11 still sucks because that's many (presumably) innocent lives lost, but 1 thing is for sure; there are many reasons why these shootings are happening and it's not purely because there are "too many guns" or "the system fails".

we have had national gun rights for over 200 years and anything up to machine guns for decades (though legit machine guns were banned in 1938), and we have had "Assault Weapons" for a long time too, and yet the alarming rate of school shootings wasnt on a clear and quick rise until the 90s/00s and still wasnt as the rate it has been the past 10 years or so.

If the powers in charge are really concerned with saving lives there are many things that could make a positive change not just "let's ban guns" because then you have to somehow police that decision and it would be basically impossible to do that in The United States, so they need to come up with something more direct and meaningful (for starters any security guards at schools in the case of an emergency need to act when its happening and not wait until afterwards like a coward).
 
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#2
It should come as no surprise that statistics are usually very ridiculous & false, and are put out as scare tactics, usually by the mainstream (fake news) media, to sway public opinion, one way or another. IGNORE anything said by the major networks, the major wire sources, and the tech giants. It's all pure BS, whether the conversation is climate, gun control, presidential antics, etc. They are biased, and they are liars. Do your research independently (not directing this to you, tyrant... Meant for the sheeple.).

Second, with respect to guns... We have controls, but they don't stop shooters, or shootings. Chicago.

Third, we have rights GUARANTEED by our CONSTITUTION. They are not flexible, and are meant to provide us the freedoms our forefathers wanted us to have. You (the figurative) cannot take my rights away, without expecting a fight in return. You (the figurative) may give up your own rights, and move to Venezuela, if you please.
 

SgtOddball

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You'll find that statistics are usually inflated/exaggerated to this level when politicians, mainstream media and activists are using the school shootings and the deaths of innocent children and teachers for political warfare. That is essentially what it is, and when you look at another statistic (don't have it right at this minute) you find that the majority of school shootings are perpetrated by non other than Democratic voters.

Another thing that gets on my nerves, even here in the UK, are people like David Hogg who are being made out as "School Shooting Survivors" when they were not even at the school at the time of the shooting, and admitted cycling the school 6 hours after it happened, and there is eye witnesses to prove that this particular person actually graduated from a different school 4 years prior.

So what we have is essentially a political game that is being played out at the expense of the victims.
 

BabyTyrant

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#4
If only there were something out there to punish anyone that made up statistics like this, it should be illegal to make up and use false statistics just because real statistics dont back up your point of view.

And I wasn't arguing against gun rights, I'm just saying its easy for them to say it's the guns and not the number of other things that have changed in the last 2 to almost 3 decades.

Guns have been the constant (also known as a "Control" in an experiment), the things that have changed and resulted in these multiple Mass Shootings in a year are not related to the Guns.

You have to look at what changed; to me what changed is as follows

1. Widespread Media/News coverage; I think this is a HUGE part of it because people see that if they are at a point of no return; why not GO OUT IN A BLAZE OF GLORY? (Not saying I agree).

2. Changes in the schools themselves; let's face it, what good does it do to go against SELF DEFENSE and act like SELF DEFENSE doesn't exist, in recent years schools have changed act like when Kids/Teens fight it's a big deal (even threaten arrests if it's in High School) and they want you to be a snitch about bullies; how about somebody bully/fight the bully and show them that is not the way to go; force them to have to move on (and hopefully give up on bullying)

3. Changes to the mental health care system

4. Changes (for the worse) to the economy.

If we can improve these things I bet a vast majority of the shootings that actually happen wouldn't happen.
 

Orange

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#5
(Meant for the sheeple.).
Here we go.

You'll find that statistics are usually inflated/exaggerated to this level when politicians, mainstream media and activists are using the school shootings and the deaths of innocent children and teachers for political warfare. That is essentially what it is, and when you look at another statistic (don't have it right at this minute) you find that the majority of school shootings are perpetrated by non other than Democratic voters.

Another thing that gets on my nerves, even here in the UK, are people like David Hogg who are being made out as "School Shooting Survivors" when they were not even at the school at the time of the shooting, and admitted cycling the school 6 hours after it happened, and there is eye witnesses to prove that this particular person actually graduated from a different school 4 years prior.

So what we have is essentially a political game that is being played out at the expense of the victims.
So what you're saying is statistics saying stuff you disagree with are bad but statistics you agree with are accurate.
 

SgtOddball

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So what you're saying is statistics saying stuff you disagree with are bad but statistics you agree with are accurate.
What I'm saying is that some statistics are being deliberately inflated to rage a political war, while others do not. And I'm pretty sure if there were so many school shootings in America then it would be in the media almost 24/7.
 
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BabyTyrant

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#7
I believe if you have some kind of point to make, use real statistics, dont pull numbers out of your Ass, if your prerogative is that "Guns are bad", show some real world statistics that can back that up.

Think of middle school science, any "experiment" has 1 constant (in this case guns), and many variables, if you want to prove guns are bad you have to be able to prove that there are no other things to blame.

In The United States, you cant prove that it is guns and only guns (you have to blame a bunch of other things too) causing massive loss of innocent lives, American History is over 200 years old and we have had the 2nd amendment (gun rights) since way back then, I mean even think back to old western times, there were lots of guns around but no huge problem with mass shootings, even in the 1970s and 80s no huge problem with mass shootings, so really you gotta look at what changed in the 90s, 00s and onward.

There are too many things that have changed to say that the problem is simply guns, sure some gun owners aren't being as responsible as they should be, but personal opinion doesn't give anyone freedom to make up numbers and lie to the masses on the news.

And honestly if it was about saving lives and not Control of the masses they would work on the other problems and not keep trying to repeal the 2nd amendment.
 
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#8
You jump to false conclusions about these statistics. There is nothing in that report to indicate these statistics are a "giant lie" or that anyone tired to "make up numbers and lie to the masses on the news" or that it isn't possible to confirm more than 11. These are all just biased comments reflecting your political views. Everything in your comments is intended to make it appear there was a deliberate misrepresentation of facts, which is one possibility, but not necessarily the most likely possibility. The numbers are questionable and should be investigated, but we are a long way away from getting accurate and consistent numbers from the various sources. And it is premature to try to establish motive for something that hasn't been proven to be deliberate. The news is out; those particular numbers are likely not accurate. The news media is still doing it's job.
 

Roland007

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#9
Even if the statistics are manipulated, every school shooting is one to much.

But the solution is simple. Teachers and security guards should be armed. Children above 10 are old enough to carry their own guns. And beyond that: stop writing about it, because that feeds the fake media that is the source for statistics.
 

footedpjs

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#11
There are things being said in this thread that are stated as fact when in reality they are false. Information from both sides is being used against everyone in a political battle. It's useless to debate these things when facts are ignored.
 

Starlight99

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#12
I'm just gonna say my peace and run. A school shooting is any type of gun violence where at least one shot was fired on the grounds of a school or within close proximity of a school. Two guys get in a shootout 50 feet from a school, school shooting. Gun accidently goes off near a school, school shooting. It goes on and on. As for 240 school shootings, that's actually a pretty reasonable number (in terms of possibility, not in terms of acceptability), considering that several of them happen in Camden and Philadelphia every year, so I believe that number. As for this "political game" thing, a lot of people play political games with human lives used for tools, but it's not most people. It's politicians, businessmen, and the media that do this. It's done on both sides, and unlike the president, who says that to deflect blame, I say it as a matter of fact. The left-wing politicians, businesses, and media mobilize against the right, and the right-wing politicians, businesses, and media mobilize against the left. It's called politics for a reason. To quote Roger Stone, "Politics is not about uniting people, it's about dividing people, then getting your 51%." That should say it all. I personally think this political stuff is all bullshit, and they should put their constituents before their parties, but I'm sure I'd sound like an asshole to them. As for guns, both sides are right to a degree, and both sides are wrong to a degree. Those who advocate the removal of military-grade weaponry are in the right, since there's no reason why a civilian should have access to a gun like that. Aside from killing people, shooting targets, and collecting (the latter two can be done with every gun on the market), there's no reason to have a gun of that magnitude. The second amendment was created in the days where it took several minutes to load one shot, the guns were not very accurate, the bullets (musket balls, really) weren't very good, and the guns fired one shot for every few minutes. That being said, the arms described in the second amendment were not assault rifles, as that thought wasn't even conceivable 242 years ago. As for removing all guns from the market, that's not only unreasonable, but a pipedream at best. That will never happen, so stop worrying. I have to hear tons of gun nuts hollering about "they" coming to "take their guns", and I want to scream every time. Whoever "they" is, they're not coming to take anyone's guns, and they never will. In terms of felons, violent offenders, and the mentally ill, they have no reason to have a gun, as that endangers the public. My mother (who's mentally ill) has two military rifles from my father in her room for "safe keeping", and I'm waiting for the day she brings them out on my friends. Even though it's easier to give the guns now and ask questions later, it's impossible to bring someone back after they've been killed. I think "gun control" isn't really a good word for it, and I think that word's been politicized by both sides as either a very good thing or a very bad thing, depending on what you support. Instead of gun control, we should be talking about gun reform. Think about it, if we create gun laws that are better instead of tougher, we can prevent the wrong people from getting guns. If we prevent the wrong people from getting guns, they won't get in trouble, and then the right people will be able to keep their guns. Problem solved. Now everyone pack up your pickets and go home.
 

CrinklyConnor

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#13
This entire thread is full of “No, you’re wrong, I’m right.” by everyone here.

Seriously - if you make a claim about false statistics or otherwise, please provide something to back it up other than 4Chan postings.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

dogboy

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#14
I believe in the statistics having taught in an inner city school. Some of those numbers however, are based on a gun going off in a school, without an intention of actually shooting someone. In the junior high that my kids attended, a gun when off in a students backpack because another kid who sat behind him and knew of the gun, reached and found the trigger bulge and was able to pull the trigger. It shot down into the floor.

One of my students was shot and killed in a drive by shooting very near to the school. If those of you who don't believe in the statistics actually taught in an inner city school like I did for 12 years, I think you would think differently. We probably had a gun incident in that one school every year. Now multiply that by all the schools in the U. S. and you begin to reach the statistical number. One can hide their head in the sand, but that won't make school shootings go away.
 

tiny

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#15
I believe if you have some kind of point to make, use real statistics, dont pull numbers out of your Ass, if your prerogative is that "Guns are bad", show some real world statistics that can back that up.
You're kidding, right?! Just look at the levels of gun violence in America compared to other countries! You can't just ignore real world facts!

There are too many things that have changed to say that the problem is simply guns...
Well people + guns = problems. You can't get rid of people, but you can get rid of guns.

Gun nuts know they're not going to win a rational argument, so become obsessed with conspiracy theories in the hopes they can con people into thinking that liberal gun laws are good for society.

You need to check your sources, for sure. There are all sorts of "accounting errors" possible when we let the authorities keep secret unverified records. But that's why we have a free media, to report on school shootings, broadcast footage, investigate the situation, and report it.

You can't possibly claim that the endless shootings in America are all faked as some kind of ludicrously unfeasible attempt to brainwash the public?! That's a bit silly.
 

BabyTyrant

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#16
Well, the media in The United States is only "Free" in that they are Free to say whatever they want, which leads to a lot of fudging the truth to make stories more interesting so they get views, because without views, ad space is worthless and they wouldn't survive.

So basically a lot of news is "Fake News", I know people laugh and think its BS because of how they feel about Trump (which is likely from any number of News sources biased against Trump, why do you think they dig up all kinds of stuff irrelevant to what he is doing AS THE PRESIDENT?; I don't care what he has said and done for most of his life, if it doesn't relate to his presidency it shouldn't get brought up), but it is true, if your livelihood is on the line you do what you got to to get views so you can make the money.

As far as endless shootings, part of the law in The United States is why did someone get shot?

Not everyone is innocent, if you act violently towards somebody or break in their house and get shot, clearly you deserve it because you put yourself in that situation, you cant predict how a criminal is gonna act and if it's you or them, better they die than you.

I'm sorry if you disagree with that Tiny, but you cant include everybody is shooting statistics when many of them did something wrong to get shot.

And removing all guns in The United States is a giant Fairy Tale, they can try it but it wouldnt he enforceable (not to mention is unconstitutional and even the Supreme court says that) and in the end only serve to make things worse for those that care about the law, criminals and the mentally iLL dont, this isn't even opinion, its fact.

Why do you think places with less legally registered guns still have a lot of Gun Crime?

Criminals are a lot less afraid if they know chances are low that they will get shot when committing crimes, look at all the gun crime and innocent lives lost in Chicago and then look at Texas which has way more guns and less loss of innocent lives.
 

SgtOddball

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#17
In fact the UK has gun laws and recently (a few days ago) an illegal gun factory was found and likely even more exist. So it doesn't at all matter whether you ban guns or not, they are still bound to 1. fall into the hands of those who will risk the lives of others, and 2. people will attempt to make there own in some fashion, or smuggle them into the country and make sure the weapon is not traceable to the seller. Also it would just turn from guns to knives, and a knife wound can be far worse than a gunshot wound.

- - - Updated - - -

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-b...phisticated-illegal-gun-factory-idUKKCN1L716K

- - - Updated - - -

Also to anyone who says "but there hasn't been a school shooting in the UK so gun laws must work"...... Trust me, it is only a matter of time before another school shooting does happen in the UK, and certainly wouldn't put it passed one of the extremist groups either.
 

ESPF

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#18
My personal theory is that the number of school related killings isn't that much higher/lower than in the past. But rather, the SEEMING disparity/increase is a product of the 24 hour news cycle and the "If it bleeds it doesn't just lead... We'll break in and spend the next 20 hours, replaying the drone footage."
I know that in the late 1880s there was an attack on a one room schoolhouse in the southwest, using dynamite, that took an entire generation of that town.
In the 1950s there were attacks on a couple of "black schools"in the deep south, using pipe bombs and molotov cocktails.
And I'm cretin there are lots more that I'm just not aware of. So I'm thinking it's just a case of better reporting.
 

JoeMiller

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#19
Not everyone is innocent, if you act violently towards somebody or break in their house and get shot, clearly you deserve it because you put yourself in that situation, you cant predict how a criminal is gonna act and if it's you or them, better they die than you.
This idea that theft deserves summary execution is simply bizarre. I am not against self defence, at all, but this statement seems to really be indicative of something quite disturbing about American culture that is deeply ingrained into it i.e. it is implicitly violent; it almost seems to feel like people welcome or get off on the idea of killing someone.

And removing all guns in The United States is a giant Fairy Tale, they can try it but it wouldnt he enforceable (not to mention is unconstitutional and even the Supreme court says that) and in the end only serve to make things worse for those that care about the law, criminals and the mentally iLL dont, this isn't even opinion, its fact.
Yes, I agree, the cat is out of the bag. It is a lost cause.

Criminals are a lot less afraid if they know chances are low that they will get shot when committing crimes, look at all the gun crime and innocent lives lost in Chicago and then look at Texas which has way more guns and less loss of innocent lives.
So, you're comparing a large city's crime stats with an entire state, not a fair comparison at all. Whereas on state by state, and per capita basis, as in deaths per 100,000, Gun deaths in texas are actually higher than Illinois. Indeed they were considerably higher in many states with lax gun laws over states with stricter ones. Of course, I suspect you'll dismiss these a false stats. No doubt I'll be referred to a brain dead, deep-state sheeple libtard, blind socialist, communist marxist, beta-cuck america hater by others.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_death_rates_in_the_United_States_by_state#cite_note-VPC-2 (I've used Wikipedia but it is backed by the CDC and National Center for Injury Prevention and Control')

- - - Updated - - -

In fact the UK has gun laws and recently (a few days ago) an illegal gun factory was found and likely even more exist. So it doesn't at all matter whether you ban guns or not, they are still bound to 1. fall into the hands of those who will risk the lives of others, and 2. people will attempt to make there own in some fashion, or smuggle them into the country and make sure the weapon is not traceable to the seller. Also it would just turn from guns to knives, and a knife wound can be far worse than a gunshot wound.

- - - Updated - - -

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-b...phisticated-illegal-gun-factory-idUKKCN1L716K

- - - Updated - - -

Also to anyone who says "but there hasn't been a school shooting in the UK so gun laws must work"...... Trust me, it is only a matter of time before another school shooting does happen in the UK, and certainly wouldn't put it passed one of the extremist groups either.
Firearm related deaths in the UK are 0.23 per 100,000 people

In the US it is 11.96 per 100,000.

If you are hoping for absolute safety, well, no law can do that, and implying a law is a failure because it hasn't achieved a 100% success rate is asking unrealistic expectations. The simple fact is we, in the UK, are far, far less likely to die from a gunshot than the US. One story does not a crisis make. Whereas school shootings are more than just a one off, mass shootings are more than just a one off. Arming of teachers and armed guards in schools is a reflection of that. And frankly, schools with armed guards, shooter drills, and creation of bullet resistant backpacks are an indication of how utterly insane the situation is the US. But the thing is, it won't ever change, and no amount of arguing will sway anyone.
 

BabyTyrant

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#20
Well, gun deaths don't exactly equal death of innocent people, and I will agree a lot of Americans seem a bit too eager to bust out a gun (at least when it's in Movies, TV Shows, and in regards to Criminals) and shoot somebody, but a lot of people simply assess a situation and make a decision based on how they feel, and it's also based on where the situation goes down.

In a public setting there is more leeway for possible criminal activities and less defense for people shooting other people, unless it's a very clear case of warranted gun use for self defense; whereas in ones own home when people dont belong in your home (such as breaking and entering) it is much easier to argue not knowing what a criminal is up to and that you may have to act with deadly force before the criminal (who may he armed and dangerous) tries to potentially murder the people lawfully residing in their house.

I'm not saying the Pro-Gun side is perfect, but I find a lot less fault with the Pro-Gun side.

I mean, obviously there are Guns that civilians clearly dont need (for example, actual Machine Guns, which are banned to an "Average Joe" trying to get a gun license anyways, Semi-automatics I don't think are really a big deal, even if they fall under "Assault Weapons", any gun use where the end goal is killing innocent people is extremely wrong, regardless of if it is a Pistol, Shotgun, Rifle, Assault Weapon, etc).

I also acknowledge that it should be a requirement of having a gun license to have the guns properly locked up when not in use, which would warrant getting a proper gun safe, not just anything sold as a "Gun Safe", though if it's a single pistol they could get away with less if it is always controlled (very close to the legally licensed gun owner at all times).

So essentially Gun Owners shouldn't just be able to get anything they want, nor should anything resembling a further massive gun ban happen, and there can be things done (where they aren't already), to make it less likely that guns will go from their lawful owners to someone else (who then uses it unlawfully).

I think that is a pretty fair compromise for both sides; but in the end there needs to be a lot changed that doesn't really fall under any sort of category of "Gun Control", not that it would be easy, but it is a gross oversimplification to say it would be perfect if guns weren't in the picture (which again is stated to be unconstitutional by the Ultimate Authority of Legality in the United States; The Supreme Court, and also would be unenforceable and would not serve to make things better for law abiding citizens, only those that don't care about the law)
 
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