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Thread: I could use some family advice from our diverse perspectives over a huge drama(Affair).

  1. #1

    Default I could use some family advice from our diverse perspectives over a huge drama(Affair).

    I will try and make this not too long to read, but it is going to be huge, and I could really use a bunch of opinions here. I worry that I crossed a line possibly, but I also needed to make sure to protect my sister from what has been happening.

    Background: My sister, her husband, and I left our family's religion which was very difficult for my mom and dad. They have done a good job at expressing doubt in our own reasoning's which has always felt insulting, because, even though they don't have to accept it, they could at least acknowledge that we left for historic/doctrinal reasons, and not because we wanted to sin.
    Also, my parents know about my AB/DL side, and my mom took too it horribly. She invaded my phone texts, mail, laundry, and implied that I wasn't marriage material because my AB/DL side. So, my opinion on how my parents react to issues, is not positive.

    Beginning issue: My sister (we'll call Amanda) who left, was feeling unsure about her marriage, because her husband (we'll call Bob), was sometimes making rude comments, and they worked it out that he should stop, and he did. Meanwhile, my other brother in law (we'll call Karlos), was visiting Amanda in free time, to talk to her, since she felt a bit stressed. Karlos lied that Bob had an affair, and that Bob was a terrible person (Bob, and Karlos grew up together and were best friends, and then married my sisters). Karlos told Amanada that he wished Bob would die so he could take care of Amanda. They then had an Affair. Cliff notes, Karlos took advantage of Amanda's vulnerability, they both made bad choices, and then Karlos proved to be a horrible best friend of Bob.
    Amanda then decided to be the adult and confess while Karlos was pleading for Amanda not to tell anybody. Amanda told our parents, and they were pretty supportive at first in trying to be helpful in all of this, but they were still trying to push some religious "come back to church" ideas. Karlos, who I personally can attest, was just as doubtful about our families religion as we are, but decided now would be a good time to come back and pray his sin away in order to keep his wife. Bob and Amanda, meanwhile, never want to see Karlos again, and they have been going to a psychologist together to help repair their marriage and she has been going to another on her own as well. They, have still not made any drastic religious changes.

    The next issue: My sister Amanda had some history that she had approached me about a year before the Affair happened, and it turns out that my brother (will be called Jeff), had actually exposed his genitals at the age of 15 when my sister was 9, for a long period of time while she had asked for his help at the computer and she didn't realize that he had undressed behind her(she was in his room playing games on the computer, and he undressed completely, not normal in my family to expose each other to nude self). So due to this history, my sister, on receiving a call from Jeff, decided that she needed to get this issue out now, and told him to stay away from her, and that she felt uncomfortable around him, and that she noticed that he still looks at her female bits during conversations(she mentioned this 3 times in letters and he never once said anything to deny it, also Bob noticed it before Amanda ever mentioned their history). Jeff then tried to call after receiving the email, she didn't want to talk to him right then, so rather than emailing, or texting, he went straight to my parents to tell them what a terrible thing had happened with Amanda bringing this up.

    The Actual Issue: In response to this event with Jeff, my dad called Amanda up, and Yelled (loud enough that I could hear him through her cell, while i stood a few feet away), "Amanda, you are single handedly tearing this family apart."
    He later apologized in a two line text about saying that. (She didn’t deserve it at all, I mean, sure the Affair was half her fault, more likely 30-40% really)
    After apologizing though, he later said more statements that heavily implied that she was breaking apart the family.
    My parents later went with Amanda and Bob, to their psychologist, and they apologized about blaming Amanda again. And they also revealed something we suspected, that my Mom and Dad blamed Bob for Amanda and I in leaving their religion, and believed Bob left because of Porn (which he doesn’t even care for anymore because he is Married). They said they agreed that they would write a letter to the family to repair the damage they did towards Bob, and I believe that there was agreement that they would validate Amanda’s concerns about her brother Jeff and not wanting to see him.
    Once they wrote the letter, it was extremely vague, and half of it was a quote from a religious leader. It also never said Amanda’s or Bob’s name in it. When Amanda confronted them about it, she showed them a letter that she wrote so they could see what kind of things she thought should be in it. They said they couldn’t use it, and then asked why Bob doesn’t write them a letter of apology, apparently for Marrying my sister under the premise that they would all remain members of their religion, which he firstly had intents for until things later arose. Amanda was also criticized for “dragging the family through the mud.”

    So this is what I wrote after seeing all the pain that this was causing my sister, and seeing my parents flipflop on this issue:

    Mom, and Dad.
    I know that this message is going to come at an inopportune moment, and that you feel hurt, but I am going to say this because, for one, it might as well all be out in the open while all of the drama is still strong, and secondly so maybe I can take some of the shots fired you are sending at Amanda and Bob.
    I'm not going to contend that I know what is going on in this whole mess, but I know that the story I have heard from Bob and Amanda, and the correspondence I have read between you guys and them, well, you don't make the kind of shit up that I have been observing.
    I was going to try and approach some of this with some amount of posture and kindness, but I'm going to just get this out now.
    What you guys are doing to Amanda and Bob is appalling. You flip flop on your apologetics so much that there is no hope in believing you will ever understand anything but the notion that you and everyone who is active in your church have the supreme right to be correct in every confrontation. I can't wrap my head around how insane it is with dad right now. You yelled at Amanda and said she is single handedly tearing the family apart, then you say sorry, then you cast blame again, then you go to a therapist and admit you were wrong about it, and then you tell her again on the phone, "look at all of this you are doing Amanda." You have no sense of honor, and only a sense of pride in this. When will you learn to admit you are wrong, and then actually stick to that statement.
    You say that mom has done nothing to Amanda, and sure, maybe she didn't start the rumors that you did dad, about Bob being responsible for everything wrong here, but what mom didn't do right, was take something productive from your session with them in counselling, and then actually stick to your commitments to repair the damage you both helped put Amanda and Bob through. I know you put some effort into writing the letter you did to admit you helped spread rumors and it was wrong, but for hell's sake, the email that was composed could have at least been specific towards who it was about, and then maybe not be half composed from a church leader that Amanda, Bob, and I believes belongs to a cult.

  2. #2

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    Yikes, what a mess! You know that already. I'm sorry your family is having such a difficult time. Obviously, the letter is sent, so now it's just a matter of seeing what happens. I can see why you'd want to say what you said but I'm not sure they're the most effective path to improvement (if that is possible).

    I think I'd just have to substantially reduce my involvement with my parents if they behaved that way. I'd want them to know that the door was open to reconciliation but it's their effort to make under the circumstances.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
    Yikes, what a mess! You know that already. I'm sorry your family is having such a difficult time. Obviously, the letter is sent, so now it's just a matter of seeing what happens. I can see why you'd want to say what you said but I'm not sure they're the most effective path to improvement (if that is possible).

    I think I'd just have to substantially reduce my involvement with my parents if they behaved that way. I'd want them to know that the door was open to reconciliation but it's their effort to make under the circumstances.
    Yeah, it is a mess. I know I should have been a lot less aggressive in my response to them, but I was getting really tired of seeing the flip flopping going on. I was going to write a letter to them that was a lot less aggressive, but it would have taken a lot more time, and my sister was having lots of pain over this.

    I did talk to my mom after, because she came to my work unannounced and asked if we could leave for lunch. Her premise of discussion was that I shouldn't be getting involved in this, and I don't know the whole story, which sure, i don't know 100% of the story, but the dots are connecting, and they don't look good.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I don't even think i'm going to have to try and reduce involvement sadly. I sent a text yesterday asking If i could come over on Sunday and talk more of this out, and I haven't gotten a reply.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyger View Post
    Yeah, it is a mess. I know I should have been a lot less aggressive in my response to them, but I was getting really tired of seeing the flip flopping going on. I was going to write a letter to them that was a lot less aggressive, but it would have taken a lot more time, and my sister was having lots of pain over this.

    I did talk to my mom after, because she came to my work unannounced and asked if we could leave for lunch. Her premise of discussion was that I shouldn't be getting involved in this, and I don't know the whole story, which sure, i don't know 100% of the story, but the dots are connecting, and they don't look good.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I don't even think i'm going to have to try and reduce involvement sadly. I sent a text yesterday asking If i could come over on Sunday and talk more of this out, and I haven't gotten a reply.
    This is all quite sad. I'm sorry sorry you have to go through all this Tyger.

    I think it's good that Bob and Amanda are seeing a counselor, I'm sure they'll get through all this and work out their issues. I'm a little worried for you because I think it's pretty clear this is a source of stress for you and a source of tension for your parents. Reducing involvement, regardless of which party chooses it, is probably the best approach. Make sure that you have people who support you though and places that you can go to spend time and socialize outside of your family. From the description, it sounds like your parents were still a big part of your life up to this point, so it's important that distancing from them gets filled with other things like friends or activities.

    Longer-term, I do think that taking an aggressive tone isn't terribly effective. People's religion is very important to them and you can't suddenly change their brainwashing (from your perspective) nor can they instantly make your realize all your sins (from their perspective). It's better to think about things that both sides agree on. I'd bet that after everyone calms down and things stabilize a little, several people may realize that being in touch as a family, even with disagreements, is better than drifting apart. And at that point, you can sit down and talk about how you can relate to each other, maybe agree on some topics of conversation that simply won't be discussed. We have something like that in my family where we just don't ever talk about politics with one uncle because every time we do, it just blows up and everyone gets really angry.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchieRoni View Post
    This is all quite sad. I'm sorry sorry you have to go through all this Tyger.

    I think it's good that Bob and Amanda are seeing a counselor, I'm sure they'll get through all this and work out their issues. I'm a little worried for you because I think it's pretty clear this is a source of stress for you and a source of tension for your parents. Reducing involvement, regardless of which party chooses it, is probably the best approach. Make sure that you have people who support you though and places that you can go to spend time and socialize outside of your family. From the description, it sounds like your parents were still a big part of your life up to this point, so it's important that distancing from them gets filled with other things like friends or activities.

    Longer-term, I do think that taking an aggressive tone isn't terribly effective. People's religion is very important to them and you can't suddenly change their brainwashing (from your perspective) nor can they instantly make your realize all your sins (from their perspective). It's better to think about things that both sides agree on. I'd bet that after everyone calms down and things stabilize a little, several people may realize that being in touch as a family, even with disagreements, is better than drifting apart. And at that point, you can sit down and talk about how you can relate to each other, maybe agree on some topics of conversation that simply won't be discussed. We have something like that in my family where we just don't ever talk about politics with one uncle because every time we do, it just blows up and everyone gets really angry.
    Thanks. Yeah, they were still a pretty big part of my life. I wasn't horribly close anymore, but I still would go to their house once a week and they would have me over for dinner. They also liked to plan a lot of family trips. I have always felt a little like it was hard to relate with them, so I never talked much. I do have some really good friends that I can talk to, and I have been doing OK at holding up, but it still is depressing.

    What I don't know what to do, is how can I say sorry for being so aggressive, but not apologize to the point that it discounts my message that I'm upset about how they are treating my sister?

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyger View Post
    What I don't know what to do, is how can I say sorry for being so aggressive, but not apologize to the point that it discounts my message that I'm upset about how they are treating my sister?
    It depends how much you want to apologize for. If you're just sorry about being aggressive, take that route. Cite some scripture even, it would probably go over well. Something like "I'm very sorry for writing the way that I did. Regardless of the issues and how we feel about them, you're my parents and I should always be respectful towards you and your beliefs." You can point to the commandment to "honor thy father and mother" too and say that you regret going against that.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchieRoni View Post
    It depends how much you want to apologize for. If you're just sorry about being aggressive, take that route. Cite some scripture even, it would probably go over well. Something like "I'm very sorry for writing the way that I did. Regardless of the issues and how we feel about them, you're my parents and I should always be respectful towards you and your beliefs." You can point to the commandment to "honor thy father and mother" too and say that you regret going against that.
    Sounds like a pretty good approach.

  8. #8

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    I agree with ArchieRoni (no relation to RiceaRoni I'm guessing). Though you may not want to distance yourself from your relatives, you should distance yourself from their incredible problems because they are problems of their making and not yours. You've done nothing wrong here, nor are you directly involved with their bad decision making. I don't understand all the letter writing though it sounds like something your family does. Face to face discussion seems better to me, because people tend to hold back a little unless they become upset.

    The best you can do is to stay above the fray. Enjoy the people you care about, and if they want to talk about it, be a good listener. Hopefully over time they'll all move on.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by dogboy View Post
    I agree with ArchieRoni (no relation to RiceaRoni I'm guessing). Though you may not want to distance yourself from your relatives, you should distance yourself from their incredible problems because they are problems of their making and not yours. You've done nothing wrong here, nor are you directly involved with their bad decision making. I don't understand all the letter writing though it sounds like something your family does. Face to face discussion seems better to me, because people tend to hold back a little unless they become upset.

    The best you can do is to stay above the fray. Enjoy the people you care about, and if they want to talk about it, be a good listener. Hopefully over time they'll all move on.
    The letter is because the rest of the family have been talking behind Amanda and Bob's back and still blaming bob for everything, even though nothing was his fault, so it will hopefully get them all to stop the gossip and false accusations.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyger View Post
    The letter is because the rest of the family have been talking behind Amanda and Bob's back and still blaming bob for everything, even though nothing was his fault, so it will hopefully get them all to stop the gossip and false accusations.
    I truly hope things improve and I especially hope you don't get dragged deeper into it. You're a nice guy and you deserve better.

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