aB vs Little?

My take on this is similar to Cottontail's, except that I would go a little further and say that I think the use of "Little" in this context is likely counterproductive. I will call people whatever they want to be called as long as it doesn't make me feel stupid, so I will refer to those who describe themselves as littles as they prefer but I think it's the wrong approach for no other reason than the word in and of itself isn't good for searching online. "Adult Baby", for all its warts is distinctive and allows for people to find what they're looking for. Appropriating "Little" as the umbrella term would doom us to search obscurity without some standardized qualifier. I think if anyone is really looking for a new overarching name for us it needs to be distinct and if it's merely to be a subset of AB, what's the point? Play ages are vague and inconsistent anyway and people are always going to have to talk about what this really means to them. Really, it's part of the fun. I'm different from a lot of the ABs here but I'm not looking for a new term or phrase.

Trevor said:

My take on this is similar to Cottontail's, except that I would go a little further and say that I think the use of "Little" in this context is likely counterproductive. I will call people whatever they want to be called as long as it doesn't make me feel stupid, so I will refer to those who describe themselves as littles as they prefer but I think it's the wrong approach for no other reason than the word in and of itself isn't good for searching online. "Adult Baby", for all its warts is distinctive and allows for people to find what they're looking for. Appropriating "Little" as the umbrella term would doom us to search obscurity without some standardized qualifier. I think if anyone is really looking for a new overarching name for us it needs to be distinct and if it's merely to be a subset of AB, what's the point? Play ages are vague and inconsistent anyway and people are always going to have to talk about what this really means to them. Really, it's part of the fun. I'm different from a lot of the ABs here but I'm not looking for a new term or phrase.

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If you don't want to call yourself a little, cool.

But there are those of us who don't like the AB term. My play age isn't baby age. Period. So don't call me one, thanks. We're not looking for "little" to be an umbrella term. That's bogus thinking. We're just like, we don't play at baby age, so we're not going to call ourselves that.

JewelSparkles said:

If you don't want to call yourself a little, cool.

But there are those of us who don't like the AB term. My play age isn't baby age. Period. So don't call me one, thanks. We're not looking for "little" to be an umbrella term. That's bogus thinking. We're just like, we don't play at baby age, so we're not going to call ourselves that.

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As I said, I'll call people what they wish to be called. I just think it's wasted energy for us overall. Make "Little" in some way distinctive and people who aren't as familiar with the community might find you. Little is just a footnote.

But to us, it already is distinctive...

JewelSparkles said:

But to us, it already is distinctive...

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My point is essentially one of marketing. I happen to like "Adult Baby". The inherent contradiction works for me. However, if the world abounded with other meanings for it, I'd be behind us dropping it and never looking back. "Little" has the same problem in this context. "Adult Kid" works in that way. It seems unnecessary to me but it's not my thing. I'm suggesting that littles (both current and future) would be better served by finding something that is dinstinctive to the rest of the world, beyond our flyspeck of a community.

Well, I've called myself a kid adult before, but not in this context. Little works just fine for me.

I'm going to come aboard the Cottontail boat with this one.

Taking it from an outside perspective, the term "Little" holds no more significance to me than a determinant to what age you regress as; that and nothing more: Especially when threads like this come up and those who claim to be littles, more often than not, don't have a solid answer as to why they are.

I am fascinated by this thread. Good job SilentlySpeaking for bringing it up - even if you did not intend this type of discussion.

First off, let me say that Trevor brought up a point I had not thought of before, and he is absolutely correct. Try googling Little and see what you get. Then try googling either Adult Baby or ABDL. Clearly we need a distinctive, "searchable" label for our community not only as a brand name, but to allow people to find us on the Internet.

Nevertheless, the term "Little", is perfect for me on many levels. As my profile says, I have an interest in Zen buddhism, and being Little is very Zen-like. Being Zen is like being a grain or sand or a small pebble on the shore of a great ocean. Compared to the World and the Universe, we are all Little. And, of course, Little is what I feel inside both when I regress and when I'm not. Yes, even at work as an adult I can feel this small little person inside of me who can be both unsure, insecure, afraid, and bursting with joy, playfulness and singing.

From my perspective, I feel it necessary to embrace both terms, Adult Baby or ABDL as the brand name for our community, and Little for what many of us truly feel inside.

Sleep
Play
Pampers

MyWorld

MyWorld08 said:

From my perspective, I feel it necessary to embrace both terms, Adult Baby or ABDL as the brand name for our community, and Little for what many of us truly feel inside.

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...and I think it's fine as a term -- generally speaking. I'm not sure there's really any argument there. Whether it's a useful label within the community really seems debatable. I mean -- it is debatable. We're debating it!

When you're asked for your race or ethnicity on a form, you don't answer "human." And I sort of feel like that's what people are doing when they put "Little" as their AB/DL Identity, at least effectively. It verges on a non-answer. It's interesting to me that the Littles (by label) who've responded are using the term to mean "age-plays as a kid, not a baby," whereas most others seem to regard it as a catch-all. Clearly, something is getting lost in translation.

MyWorld08 said:

I am fascinated by this thread. Good job SilentlySpeaking for bringing it up - even if you did not intend this type of discussion.

First off, let me say that Trevor brought up a point I had not thought of before, and he is absolutely correct. Try googling Little and see what you get. Then try googling either Adult Baby or ABDL. Clearly we need a distinctive, "searchable" label for our community not only as a brand name, but to allow people to find us on the Internet.

Nevertheless, the term "Little", is perfect for me on many levels. . . Little is what I feel inside both when I regress and when I'm not. Yes, even at work as an adult I can feel this small little person inside of me who can be both unsure, insecure, afraid, and bursting with joy, playfulness and singing.

From my perspective, I feel it necessary to embrace both terms, Adult Baby or ABDL as the brand name for our community, and Little for what many of us truly feel inside.

Sleep
Play
Pampers

MyWorld

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Well said. You really saved my hands a lot of typing, a good thing with my cerebral palsy. Hey Trevor, MyWorld08 agreed with you, so by extension, we agree. I knew this day would come!:claps:

Cottontail said:

When you're asked for your race or ethnicity on a form, you don't answer "human." And I sort of feel like that's what people are doing when they put "Little" as their AB/DL Identity, at least effectively. It verges on a non-answer. It's interesting to me that the Littles (by label) who've responded are using the term to mean "age-plays as a kid, not a baby,"

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I'm sorry, but that's what it is to us that use it. Why should I have to call myself an AB when that isn't really accurate? "Little" is far more accurate, and includes non-ABDL ageplayers. That's all I (and others) are trying to say :/

I know many littles who feel unwelcome and ostracized because of the refusal by ABDL's to embrace the term.

JewelSparkles said:

I'm sorry, but that's what it is to us that use it. Why should I have to call myself an AB when that isn't really accurate? "Little" is far more accurate, and includes non-ABDL ageplayers. That's all I (and others) are trying to say :/

I know many littles who feel unwelcome and ostracized because of the refusal by ABDL's to embrace the term.

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I do get it -- "AB" isn't a good fit. But to call "Little" accurate simply because other labels are inaccurate is sorta silly. Sure, "vehicle" might be a better substitute for "truck" than "car" is, but saying "vehicle" when asked what you drive raises more questions than it answers. Similarly, you probably wouldn't get anywhere if you went to a forum about cars and asked for "vehicle" to be a profile choice because "I happen to like trucks, and trucks aren't cars." That wouldn't qualify as being ostracized, either. To the car-owning majority, that would simply be sensible.

Of course, we have "Little," for better or for worse, and it's sort of the "Vehicle" of ADISC. More than half of us could claim it on our profiles, according to the various definitions given in this thread, and how would that help? If we did that, then those of us who regard "Little" as exclusive of "AB" would be back to square one, looking for something else to call themselves. That's the trouble with new and general terms. They're interesting for a fleeting moment, and then they're so polluted nobody wants or needs them anymore.

A term can be ambiguous in some contexts and not in others. I wouldn't say "Little" is generally ambiguous and redundant, but in terms of "AB/DL Identity," it is. Very much so.

I think the point missing here is that what "Little" really describes is one's role in an ageplay relationship. The other person being the Daddy, Mommy, Caregiver, etc. It describes the role that a person identifies with, much like Sub/Dom in BDSM. Ageplay is the umbrella term which includes paraphilic infantilism (AB) but is not limited to AB. To clarify, although the term "Little" describes one's role in an ageplay relationship dynamic, one can of course identify as a "Little" whether or not they're actually in a relationship with a Daddy, Mommy, Caregiver, etc. just as one can identify as a sub or dom.

Wow, I'm really sorry I did not expect this to be such a contraversal subject :/ I am very interested in how different people's perspectives are, I think I might take the same stance on this as I do on person first vs Identity first language and use whatever the person I'm interact icing with prefers and use them interchanably in my own life, because this is really complex

What I'm getting here is

In general little works as an over arching term for your little side no matter what the age range in age play, while for some AB is perfered to be more specific while others feel ab doesn't fit and just perfer to be referred to as little and some feel AB works just fine for them weather or not their age play is specificly baby related and over all it is really complicated

INTrePid said:

I think the point missing here is that what "Little" really describes is one's role in an ageplay relationship. The other person being the Daddy, Mommy, Caregiver, etc. It describes the role that a person identifies with, much like Sub/Dom in BDSM. Ageplay is the umbrella term which includes paraphilic infantilism (AB) but is not limited to AB. To clarify, although the term "Little" describes one's role in an ageplay relationship dynamic, one can of course identify as a "Little" whether or not they're actually in a relationship with a Daddy, Mommy, Caregiver, etc. just as one can identify as a sub or dom.

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And that's all good. Every answer has it's right question, and you've pointed out some of the questions that work with the answer "Little." Continuing with my car/truck/vehicle analogy: If you're asked how you get to work, "vehicle" might be a workable answer, depending on what other choices are offered. If you're asked what you drive, "vehicle" probably doesn't cut it. The question being asked here is: What is your AB/DL Identity? If your identity is not defined in terms of AB/DL, that's totally fine. That's what "Other" is for. There's no shame in that. We really shouldn't be putting overlapping or non-AB/DL choices in there, because those things are answers to different questions.

If we want to change the question to suit the answer, well... that's a whole 'nother ball game.

SilentlySpeaking said:

Wow, I'm really sorry I did not expect this to be such a contraversal subject :/
<snip>
In general little works as an over arching term for your little side no matter what the age range in age play, while for some AB is perfered to be more specific while others feel ab doesn't fit and just perfer to be referred to as little and some feel AB works just fine for them weather or not their age play is specificly baby related and over all it is really complicated

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Don't be sorry. This is a good -- if somewhat polarizing -- topic. We love to debate stuff here. (Psst. Don't say "religion", though! )

Anyway, your interpretation is an illustration of why I think this topic is worth discussing. It's all over the place, not unlike my own. Connecting back to Trevor's earlier points, the term is just not distinctive. It can sort of mean anything, which really limits its usefulness. Plug it into Google and prepare for insanity! (Although that ability to "hide in plain sight" might be construed as a benefit by some.)

I'd be less bothered by a term that concisely addressed a need, and while "Little" seems to address a need, it does not do so concisely -- at all.

Hmm. I have personal feelings bout what 'little' means to me - to me, personally, it implies a higher level of emotional investment than 'Adult Baby' or even 'Adult Kid'. To me it says 'this person's 'little side' is a big part of their personality and day to day life, rather than a role they adopt or fall into in private times'. Generally, in my mind, it also means the person is older than a baby. As a semi-aside, I've also met numerous littles who don't identify as ageplayers or as regressing in any way, i.e. they seem themselves merely as adults with a childish, nurturing relationship dynamic or an interest in 'kiddy' stuff, no roleplay or 'feeling like a kid' involved - this informs my feelings on what a 'little' is.

As for the argument that 'little' is a blanket term, imprecise and unnecessary on ADISC... well, that's /technically/ true, but I think there's something to be said for people appreciating the ability to use the word that feels best for you, even if it's imprecise. I feel similarly about terms describing sexuality - I could choose to call myself pansexual, polysexual, bisexual or just 'queer'. Of those, I'm always going to choose 'queer' if it's available, despite the fact it tells people very little about my sexual or romantic orientation. It just... feels better, than those other terms. The same way 'little' feels a lot better than 'adult kid'.

I think it's worth noting that I've also met ABs who decidedly do NOT identify with the term 'little', and they wouldn't fit under it as a blanket term - people who see themselves as adults forced to act like a baby or child, humiliated by being put in diapers or treated like a toddler, with no actual regression or that quality of an interest in a childish/nurturing dynamic, or in kid's stuff. Those for whom this is a 'bedroom role' which is less about acting like a child and more like embracing the embarrassment inherent in being a grown adult being stuffed into the role of a child. This, again, is another way in which words' meanings can differ (and still be accurate) when used from person to person. A physically adult person who regresses emotionally/mentally to the age of a toddler is just as much of an 'Adult Baby' as an adult 'forced' to wear enormous poofy diapers and sissy dresses.

Anyway, part of why 'little' and 'queer' feel better for me to use is down to the personal connotations those words have for me, as I mentioned earlier. 'Little' is my identity, rather than 'adult kid' or 'ageplayer'. But I think another part is that for some of us, it's less about pinning down what precisely we are, and more about establishing what we're NOT. Thinking about it, most of the labels I use to describe myself are this way: queer = not straight, non-binary = not a girl/not a boy, little = not a grown-up. If you ask me to pick a single more specific term for any of those things, I'm going to panic a little. Tying down specifically whether I'm feeling elements of Adult Baby-ness, or Adult Kid-ness, or just being a childish adult, or nudging into furry or DL territory... is hard!

I use a pacifier, bottle and diapers - which some would say makes me an adult baby. I enjoy my diapers - which some would say makes me a DL. I feel more interested in coloring books and video games than baby toys mostly - which some would say makes me an adult kid. But I don't know how well any of those fit me, and none of them 'feel right' like little does. Also, if I decided every single one of those applied I'd have a lot more things above my name! Instead of confining myself to a lot of small boxes that I'm not sure exactly fit, I'd rather sprawl out over the entire spectrum of 'little' and be comfy knowing it tells people the single most important thing about my 'role' - I'm not an adult 100% of the time. And if people need or want more information on exactly what being little means to me personally, they can ask!

My whole blanket term was really just a side comment on how it would be.. more suitable as a catch-all description then Adult Baby, not a honest suggestion for it to be used that way. Not an actual "better" way.

Little has a lot of uses on some sites, like Tumblr, where I see it all the time. So I would say it certainly has a bit of brand recognition.. within the larger AB/DL/Ageplay/Etc. community.

I understand the "branding" argument, and really have no intent to argue for it's use as a blanket term. I just meant that it would be a more suitable name then Adult Baby, since I figure many Adult Babies would consider themselves little. More then how many Little's/Adult Kid's like the term Adult Baby anyway. I also tried to recognize in my post that even though I would love to come up with a new term, like Age Wierdos or something.. Adult Baby has the brand recondition. Trying to get rid of Adult Baby is like McDonalds trying to get rid of the Big Mac.

I honestly was just arguing that for some within this community, Little is a helpful way to tell what we our to our peers. That to this site, and the others, and other sites out there.. it's a very useful way to describe ourselves. I was just simply arguing against the notion that the desire to call oneself a Little was a vain and meaningless thing. I believe that within in our community, it's a very useful and wonderful thing.

Cottontail said:

I do get it -- "AB" isn't a good fit. But to call "Little" accurate simply because other labels are inaccurate is sorta silly.

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No, it's not silly. It's inclusive.

I appreciate the time folks have taken to reply to this topic, which has highlighted some different points of view, but more importantly, has proven that people are passionate about a thing that they *should* be passionate about -- which is heartening.

General speaking, I think it's a good thing for people to be able to express who they are, and if I've seemed eager to take that away, I apologize; that hasn't been my intent at all. We have an altogether imperfect system for labeling ourselves, and that's a result of it's (necessarily) having evolved over years. While I still believe aspects of it welcome some confusion (we've also debated the intersections between AB and BF, and DL and DF, for instance), I acknowledge that it's rather pointless to argue about the meanings of terms already in widespread use. They mean what people use them to mean, and seeming to deny that is just a way to look silly.


So hats off to the passionate defenders of "Little." I leave you in peace. (Well, I'll still be here, actually, but I'll keep the noise down.)

To me, an AB is a person who wishes to be seen as or treated as a baby or toddler would be (diapers, pacis, bottle or breast feeding, sleeping in a crib etc etc) and a little is a person who sees themselves as someone younger then their actual age (for instance, I am 36, but I see myself as a 3 or 4 year old toddler.) I would classify myself as both an AB and a little *giggle*