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Thread: The true meaning of "freedom"

  1. #1

    Default The true meaning of "freedom"

    I've been in a very reflective mood as of late, and I've come to the conclusion that we are not free.

    Think about it. We are forced on our hands and knees to give up our hard-earned money, money that could be used to build a life for ourselves, but in the end we must give it to the invisible hand that pushes us along on our own unique-yet-cloned path called a career. We go around in circles until our minds either turn off or snap.

    I'm at the point that my mind is snapping. I just can't have hope for the future if I either have no job and no money, or if I have a job that I go to day in day out, with just enough to keep myself "satisfied." Needs can be met in any which way, but what do we have to do in order to feel happy, and not just satisfied?

    Why can't we just give each other things for free? Why can't we do others a favor, lend a hand, anything, and just call it a day? Why do we have to measure ourselves up to a standard that involves bending over pants-down and having our well-earned money taken from us every day?

    I just want our culture to revolve around what we think and do, and not what we have. I would -LOVE- to live in such a place that idolizes other humans based on their ideals and not how wealthy they are.

  2. #2

    Default



    Quote Originally Posted by Gevamna View Post
    Why can't we just give each other things for free? Why can't we do others a favor, lend a hand, anything, and just call it a day?
    Probably not the answer you are looking for, but because on a large scale, society falls apart without a means of regulating resources and manpower. Capitalism is a shitty way of doing it, but so far it's the only one that seems to work while maintaining what I think most would consider a comparatively reasonable quality of life for the majority. If everyone who wanted to be an artist or an actor or a singer or whatever suddenly could be, society would probably fall apart.

    Secret I think is to find balance. A very lucky few get to make a living doing something they absolutely love. A good sized portion end up working shit jobs and barely getting by, but can still find happiness elsewhere. For the rest, and where I think it's best to aim, is a job that you enjoy but is still realistic given the current job market and economic situation.



    Quote Originally Posted by Gevamna View Post
    I would -LOVE- to live in such a place that idolizes other humans based on their ideals and not how wealthy they are.
    So does everyone, but I also want my garbage collected, my roads repaired, restaurants to eat at, places to shop at, etc. It's hard to separate worth from money in a system that is mostly built around money. Again, no one is saying it's a perfect system, just that no one has come up with anything else that works.

  3. #3

    Default

    There are tons of freedoms that we take for granted on a regular basis.

    It's easy to forget that there are more than a few places in the world where people don't have the luxury of worrying about the petty worries we do, as they are more concerned about finding clean water, or not being killed.

  4. #4

    Smile

    "Freedom is what you do with what has been done to you", said Sartre.

    I remember a conversation with a (very depressed) friend where she told me how miserable, menial and low-paid her work was. She really wanted not to go in to work the next day. "But I don't have a choice!", she said. "I'm not free; I have to go in."
    "No you don't", I said. "You can do whatever you want."
    "No I can't! I'd lose my job!"
    "Sure; there are consequences to your choices. But, even though this may be a bad situation, you still get to choose what to do. It sucks that you have to live with the consequences and you can't just magic yourself into the millionaire CEO of a profitable company... but that's life. What's best: go into work and keep your job, or walk out and see what happens? I'm not saying that the latter is a bad idea... it all depends on your situation and luck and... who knows. Will your life be better if you go into work tomorrow, or if you walk out? Only you can say and only you can decide. You may think that you're not free, but that's not true; the problem is simply that life sucks sometimes. The ideal situation is never available to anyone."

    It sounds kinda hard, but... I've had the same thoughts as her, and the idea that actually,"F*** it, I want to go to work (even though it sucks)" helped make me feel better about the situation. You might feel helpless, but you're really not; you're making the best of your situation (or trying to). And that is a very admirable and powerful thing.

    While I believe in this kind of existential "freedom", I don't believe in what most people think of as "freedom". Philosophically speaking, we're not free! But I would say that, being a compatibilist determinist.



    Quote Originally Posted by Gevamna View Post
    I've been in a very reflective mood as of late, and I've come to the conclusion that we are not free.

    Think about it. We are forced on our hands and knees to give up our hard-earned money, money that could be used to build a life for ourselves, but in the end we must give it to the invisible hand that pushes us along on our own unique-yet-cloned path called a career. We go around in circles until our minds either turn off or snap.

    I'm at the point that my mind is snapping. I just can't have hope for the future if I either have no job and no money, or if I have a job that I go to day in day out, with just enough to keep myself "satisfied." Needs can be met in any which way, but what do we have to do in order to feel happy, and not just satisfied?
    I've been asking myself the same question. I'm not a hardcore socialist/communist; capitalism has its distinct merits, but left unchecked it only truly serves the needs of a tiny minority. Socially regulated capitalism seems like the best of both worlds to me.

    I'd love to work part time and sacrifice a bit of cash for some free time... but... if you want a career, you're lucky to be able to work as little as 9-5 every weekday. Maybe it's a question of personal ideology and "soul-searching". I just saw this interesting documentary that shows some of the ideologies we are exposed to in our societies... Maybe it's slightly off topic, but... meh... The link's here if you wanna look:

    https://www.adisc.org/forum/groups/8...#gmessage29461



    Quote Originally Posted by Gevamna View Post
    Why can't we just give each other things for free? Why can't we do others a favor, lend a hand, anything, and just call it a day? Why do we have to measure ourselves up to a standard that involves bending over pants-down and having our well-earned money taken from us every day?
    Because some people won't do their fair share!

    To counteract that, we could have a system where, say, you get "respect" for doing a job. Maybe you get more respect for doing a difficult, or time-consuming job. Then, depending on the respect you've earnt, you could get a certain amount of free stuff from someone else. But... that's pretty much the system we have. We just call "respect" "money". I chip in, help people out, and they give me some useless bits of paper that I don't need. But, incredibly, I can swap these useless bits of paper for free stuff from any shop I like! It's a pretty efficient system. Bartering would be a nightmare by comparison.



    Quote Originally Posted by Gevamna View Post
    I just want our culture to revolve around what we think and do, and not what we have. I would -LOVE- to live in such a place that idolizes other humans based on their ideals and not how wealthy they are.
    "Turn on, tune in, and drop out," in the words of Timothy Leary. Choose your own culture! Idolise humans based on their ideals (um... actually... maybe don't idolise anyone!)... and hope you meet some interesting people who agree with you and join you as comrades on your path!

    Having felt a lot of what you are feeling, I wonder if this is just the recognition that most people seem (at first glance) to live trivial lives, obsessed with things like power and wealth and things that you or I might find abhorrent... But, seriously, there are a lot of cool people out there who might share your ideologies... and if you can find them and gain solace and comfort from your shared reaction to the "world at large", then, I think, life becomes a little easier... But doing that ain't easy... I'm pretty much a recluse at the moment, having become disengaged with the "real world"...

    Um... is this mic still on... mumble, mumble....

  5. #5

    Default



    Quote Originally Posted by Gevamna View Post
    I've been in a very reflective mood as of late, and I've come to the conclusion that we are not free.

    Think about it. We are forced on our hands and knees to give up our hard-earned money, money that could be used to build a life for ourselves, but in the end we must give it to the invisible hand that pushes us along on our own unique-yet-cloned path called a career. We go around in circles until our minds either turn off or snap.

    I'm at the point that my mind is snapping. I just can't have hope for the future if I either have no job and no money, or if I have a job that I go to day in day out, with just enough to keep myself "satisfied." Needs can be met in any which way, but what do we have to do in order to feel happy, and not just satisfied?

    Why can't we just give each other things for free? Why can't we do others a favor, lend a hand, anything, and just call it a day? Why do we have to measure ourselves up to a standard that involves bending over pants-down and having our well-earned money taken from us every day?

    I just want our culture to revolve around what we think and do, and not what we have. I would -LOVE- to live in such a place that idolizes other humans based on their ideals and not how wealthy they are.
    Money is an easy way of representing the value of labor. By valuing money, we set value on what we think and do. By and large, society has decided that it favors mass manufacturing over art, quick and simple over ornate and beautiful, and ability to manipulate capital over ability to manipulate the physical world. But, the money one can make is really an expression of the employer's or society's valuation of one's labor.

    We could have an entire conversation about what societal choices we've made, as well as a separate conversation about the valuation we put onto the choices we've made. I will assert, though, that there is some need for valuation of our labor. Otherwise, it would be far too easy for the unscrupulous and the lazy to take advantage of others, as well as for people to be deprived of necessities for despicable reasons. That's not to suggest those things don't happen now. But aside from the social value, I think there's also something to be said for the personal satisfaction of one's labors being recognized, valued.

  6. #6

    Default

    Short answer.... Too much selfishness and not enough altruism.
    Unfortunately, humanity will never understand the basic principle of giving. We all have something to offer ...... Maybe not in equal measure, but the more you got, the more you have to give.
    Hey, hasn't someone else already said this hmmmmm

    Somewhere there's hope

    Oh yeah....gratitude and acknowledgement is good too.
    Last edited by ozbub; 07-May-2014 at 12:13.

  7. #7

    Default

    I stumbled across this the other day on my Facebook page and it really made me think. How free are we if we have to spend a good chunk of our time slaving away for others? Sure, we get paid, but most of us don't have the luxury of doing what we love and hence "never working another day in our lives". I could think of a dozen things I'd rather do for 40-50 hours a week but none of them will put a roof over my head or food on the table. Is it really freedom if it costs money? Is it really freedom if it's not free?

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    Sorry Couldn't Resist.


    But true Freedom can have many diffrent Faces and mean may diffrent things to diffrent people.

    To me True Freedom would be at a place where the government completely releases hold on the people for day to day stuff. they still need to govern serious laws like murder and sex offences. ya know the Big two No-No's. but leave everything else to the states and people, and states should also have limited control. the only bussiness regulation there should be is regulating against faulty products and price gouging other than that hell its a FREE MARKET for a reason, survival of the smartest, NO Government bailouts, no welfare if you are able bodied but cant hold a job because you don't want one you shouldn't be allowed to live for free, survival of the hard workers. Comunisim minus the Government, everyone works tword thee greater good of the community but with no government to tell them what to do. but alas human nature gets in the way of this ideal so it will never stand. the condition of this country still amazes me. i told a kid on my bus to work hard and he will be sucesful and his mother met me at the bus the next morning bitching about how i shouldn't tell him to work hard because he doesn't have to work at all because this is America the Government and welfare is supposed to support him for his whole life. no joke people here think that way.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Quote Originally Posted by tiny View Post

    To counteract that, we could have a system where, say, you get "respect" for doing a job. Maybe you get more respect for doing a difficult, or time-consuming job. Then, depending on the respect you've earnt, you could get a certain amount of free stuff from someone else. But... that's pretty much the system we have. We just call "respect" "money". I chip in, help people out, and they give me some useless bits of paper that I don't need. But, incredibly, I can swap these useless bits of paper for free stuff from any shop I like! It's a pretty efficient system. Bartering would be a nightmare by comparison.


    yes the monetary system works well BUT it could stand to be improved. standardizing currency world wide would help ALOT of struggling economys on a global Scale it would also help to regulate prices a bit better as you could put down a basic simple formula for calculating prices world wide on similar items. debts would be easier to pay it would help regulate individual countries spending habits because if they want something they cant afford well they can't have it, would also fall under regulating economys. the idea has worked in europe for quite a few years without too many issues so why can't it work on a global scale among UN regulated Countries.

    the idea of bartering does work well if you have a currency basis in which to pull from, take in example the Fallout games Everything has its value in Caps (the Currency) well say i needed more ammo for my primary weapon i use to protect myself it will cost 73 caps (since im useing caps as example anyways) but i only have 35 in hand but i do have a few items valued at a hair over 50 caps i trade the 50 caps worth of items to the vendor to turn around and sell he knocks off a few caps for each item (helps with profit on resale) and gives 38 caps store credit, pair that with my 35 and i have the full amount of 73 caps and can walk out with my ammo. see the idea actually works in theroy, some stores actually use this methodto do bussiness. gamestop/EB games for example does this with pre-owned games although their exchange rates are borderline theft, the idea does work when put to proper application.

  9. #9
    June

    Default

    It's politically meaningless, as far as I'm concerned. Anybody that tries to run on a ticket with that term in their slogan is just trying to appeal to the masses, and anybody that uses that term when describing their political beliefs probably doesn't know what they're talking about, unless it's a per-policy description.

    Actually, even then, it's pretty meaningless.

  10. #10

    Default

    we have freedom but whats the price we have to pay for it!! tax just about everything we buy, i live in a state that does have sales tax!! so tax free diapers for me!! The problem i made 30k i pay 6k in taxes facebook makes 50 billion and pays zero

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