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Thread: Moving out: as soon as possible and at all costs, or just when/if logical?

  1. #1

    Default Moving out: as soon as possible and at all costs, or just when/if logical?

    Following a recent conversation that sparked in this thread, http://www.adisc.org/forum/adult-bab...y-diapers.html , and upon NateSean's invitation, I thought it could be interesting to test Adiscers' opinion on the matter of moving out.

    Judging from the responses I read whenever the topic arises, it looks like for a lot of people moving out of the place where they've been raised is something to do as soon as possible, and keeping living with their family past 20 y/o or so is, instead, a shame to get rid of at all costs.

    Now, I can certainly see the point in that reasoning if someone is unlucky enough to have an asphittic/nosy/unbearable family or parents, or has a generally bad relationship with them, or the place they live in is small, so cohabitating is tricky and there's hardly any privacy, or if one lives in the countryside and wants to move to the city, or wants to go living with their significant other/friends/whatever, or in case of any other good reason that may arise. Also, if one has to go studying or working far away from home, moving out is without doubt a logistic necessity.

    But, apparently, to a lot of people the concept of living in harmony with their family, in a fairly sized house where everyone has their own spaces and privacy, is completely foreign. At this point I could guess that it's mostly a matter of cultural differences, as here in Italy young people don't have the same compulsion to move out just for the sake of it as they seem to have in other parts of the world, nor are parents inclined to kick them out just because they've hit legal age. That doesn't of course mean a 25 y/o guy or girl gets everything done like a 10 y/o kid would: everybody has his own responsibilities and helps out in the household.

    So my question is, does it really make sense to say that someone should move out just because he's hit his early twenties, or maybe there are cases in which that is not the logical choice?

  2. #2

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    I agree there is a cultural stigma that living at home past your early 20's is a bit.. unusual. That said, I think most people (myself including) have a legitimate desire to, after 20 something years of living at home, get out on their own, have their own space, etc. Even when your boundaries are respected, you have privacy, etc.. it still doesn't compare to having your own apartment/house.

    I also suspect a big part of it, and I don't know if this is the case in Italy, but having the girl friend over for some sex while ones mother is up in the living room watching TV would be very awkward to me, and I suspect most people from my country (Canada) would agree.

    "Jilly, Where's Bill?"
    'Oh, he's up in his room banging his girlfriend. '
    "Well tell him to hurry it up, dinners almost ready!

    I also think there is a certain amount of responsibility and character building that comes with living on your own. Yes someone living at home may have responsibilities (be they chores or financial), but again, it's just not the same.

    As for when to move out, barring those hostile/unpleasant living circumstances you mention, I think it makes sense to do it when both:
    - the person has a legitimate desire to do so (not peer pressure / stigma)
    - the person is in a financially stable situation

  3. #3

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    It seems to be a heavily American influenced phenomenon to the point of there being tropes of young adult males being branded as losers for living at home. I was aware that Mediterranean countries have cultures that don't think twice about people living at home in their 30s, and I've been learning that in many other parts of the world the custom is to add another room to the family's homestead - in fact at my last Dr's visit the receptionist was telling another patient how her parents' home in the Phillipines has 11 rooms and they'd essentially bought the next door neighbors' house. On the paternal side of my own family most of the siblings have always lived within no further than a 10 minute drive away.

    It doesn't seem to be a very popular sentiment to be anti-moving out among the ranks but it lies somewhere therein that it stems from a sense of wanting to have one's cake and eat it at the same time - a closed door is a closed door is a closed door, the case should be argued

  4. #4

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    I moved out at 18 and back and out etc... I hated living home but money was tight and I wound living in my parents house until I was 33 and had saved up enough to put 50% down on the house I still live in. Fortunately for me, and my folks, my Dad got an early retirement offer from the town and my parents retired to Fla. when I was 24 so I had the house to myself most of the year.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by quattrus View Post
    Following a recent conversation that sparked in this thread, http://www.adisc.org/forum/adult-bab...y-diapers.html , and upon NateSean's invitation, I thought it could be interesting to test Adiscers' opinion on the matter of moving out.

    Judging from the responses I read whenever the topic arises, it looks like for a lot of people moving out of the place where they've been raised is something to do as soon as possible, and keeping living with their family past 20 y/o or so is, instead, a shame to get rid of at all costs.

    Now, I can certainly see the point in that reasoning if someone is unlucky enough to have an asphittic/nosy/unbearable family or parents, or has a generally bad relationship with them, or the place they live in is small, so cohabitating is tricky and there's hardly any privacy, or if one lives in the countryside and wants to move to the city, or wants to go living with their significant other/friends/whatever, or in case of any other good reason that may arise. Also, if one has to go studying or working far away from home, moving out is without doubt a logistic necessity.

    But, apparently, to a lot of people the concept of living in harmony with their family, in a fairly sized house where everyone has their own spaces and privacy, is completely foreign. At this point I could guess that it's mostly a matter of cultural differences, as here in Italy young people don't have the same compulsion to move out just for the sake of it as they seem to have in other parts of the world, nor are parents inclined to kick them out just because they've hit legal age. That doesn't of course mean a 25 y/o guy or girl gets everything done like a 10 y/o kid would: everybody has his own responsibilities and helps out in the household.

    So my question is, does it really make sense to say that someone should move out just because he's hit his early twenties, or maybe there are cases in which that is not the logical choice?

    alright if your parents try to respect you for who and what you are then by all means stay home, it's just I suspect that is not going to be the case and if it is then you will most assuredly be seriously hurt just for being a DL, DF, caretaker. you see IF they try to be understanding of you then show them some factual data about being a DL, DF, caretaker before ANY stereotypes have a chance to develop. if they refuse to tolerate this side of you be prepared to just move out and not even tolerate their misgivings for that because they probably have no clue that this will never go away regardless if YOU want to get rid of it or not. if they don't like it well then they can just get used to it. I know this could be painful but it will hurt you a lot more possibly if you don't do this. I am merely suggesting that you be prepared for this option because it MIGHT be necessary because this could seriously hurt you as a person if you don't. of course your parents may be understanding or at least open-minded enough to at least learn a few things about this so make sure to let them know at the earliest possibility that they know that this is not going to stop more because NOTHING can make it stop anyways. then show them some factual data about misconceptions concerning this so you can show them how NOT stereotype you because it's ridiculously EASY to do that but it takes a little learning to know otherwise and you should be fine.

  6. #6

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    Older members know my story, that during my senior year in college, my mom found my makeshift diapers and gay porn. She sent me to a psychiatrist and that lasted for a few visits until I talked her out of it. Upon graduation, I got a teaching job in a neighboring state and moved out. A year later, I took another job and moved about 400 miles away from home.

    Having my own place to not just come and go as I pleased, but to buy and wear diapers was wonderful. The U. S. has an interesting history regarding its children living at home. Our children moved out as I did, shortly after graduation, but historically, families lived as several generations at home. Many married children, such as my parents, lived with one set of parents until they could save for a down payment on a house. When older parents got old and ill, they often moved in with one of their children.

    Sometimes this still happens, but on a whole, we tend to be more independent.

  7. #7

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    Well in my own case I moved out for college when I was 18 but I was forced to move back in with my parents because of medical reasons the following summer.So for me it wasn't really my choice to move back home with my parents that choice was taken away from me by doctors and I still have to live with them now even thought I'm about to turn 23 soon.But I still retain my privacy because I talked to my parents about if I moved back home what I wanted and expected so my parents won't set foot in my room without knocking and I do some stuff around the house for them.But during all this time I've still been working towards moving out because my parents live in the middle of no where and I want a place of my own so I can do as I please without having to consider what my parents will think or react to a given situation.Plus I know they wouldn't be acceptive of the lifestyle I wish to live because I know they wouldn't be acceptive of the AB/DL side of me nor me having a boyfriend so I'm rather eager to move out so I can actually live my actual life than a perpetual lie

  8. #8

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    I don't think there's anything wrong in living with your parents (or whoever you like) at any age. It all depends on the situation and how you get on with each other. I can understand why people tend to want to get their own place and "start their own life", settle down, have children, whatever, but... it just depends on circumstances... In "The West" (particularly the US) society tends to value independence and a "meritocracy", whereas other cultures focus more on family and shared values.

    I don't think anyone should automatically think that leaving home and being independent is a "good" thing, or that living with your parents is "bad"... Do what you wanna do and don't let anyone else judge your choices!

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by quattrus View Post
    Judging from the responses I read whenever the topic arises, it looks like for a lot of people moving out of the place where they've been raised is something to do as soon as possible, and keeping living with their family past 20 y/o or so is, instead, a shame to get rid of at all costs.
    The mindset in America is different. I am not sure where in American history we diverged from the cultures Americans immigrated from, but, at this time, we have swung to the extreme opposite of what you describe in Italy and what I saw in Asia. It is the expectation that a person will move out after completing high school and will then go on to live an independent and self-supporting life. My father joked about "breaking your dinner plate" while I was 17. Both the parents and their offspring have the expection of financial independence and increased privacy at the age of 18.

    In America, there are two socially acceptable paths after high school: going away to college or starting work and renting an apartment. Someone working and living with parents is viewed as somehow not being able to live independent from them; this is shameful for both the parents and the young adult. Also, the parents frequently require compensation for continuing to provide food and shelter and continue the same rules as when the person was a teen. This is because young adults are viewed as a burden on their parents and still their child when they still live at home.

    Is it correct to instantly go from parents provide all support and set all rules to "your turn"? My view is that this is wrong and other cultures do it better. Single people's first place is often a rented dwelling with cheap rent often shared with others who are not as well known as the parents. No one there owns anything of value or has any significant savings. What income is there frequently is not budgeted appropriately and is wasted. Furniture often consists of a mattress on the floor and second-hand couches. However, the entertainment center is usually top-notch. Often, there is personality conflict with at least one roommate. At my first apartment, the telephone got disconnected because the guy receiving everyone's share of the expense didn't pay it. I later found out the electric bill was also over a month behind when that bill was transferred to me. Years later, I had another roommate who promised to pay a flat $300 a month. He frequently did not pay the full amount on time and did not care how much electricity he used. Roommates can easily make even questionable parents look good.

    In my opinion, we should expect a reasonable transition period between the two extremes. Giving the young adult time to practice a budget, plan for expenses, and save up money required to move into their own home would be more efficient and practical for all parties involved. Teaching the required skills to successfully live independently in advance would be a significant improvement.

    Having said all this, I scheduled the specific day I would move out while still in high school over 4 months in advance, moved over 2,000 miles away, and refused to consider living with my parents again. My independence and privacy from my parents is that valuable to me. However, I am "close" to my family mentally and have regularly called them and visited their house during the past 14 years. There is just a healthy geographic separation (1,500-4,000 miles) I have maintained that prevents Mom from being too nosy.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by accepted View Post
    alright if your parents try to respect you for who and what you are then by all means stay home, it's just I suspect that is not going to be the case and if it is then you will most assuredly be seriously hurt just for being a DL, DF, caretaker. you see IF they try to be understanding of you then show them some factual data about being a DL, DF, caretaker before ANY stereotypes have a chance to develop. if they refuse to tolerate this side of you be prepared to just move out and not even tolerate their misgivings for that because they probably have no clue that this will never go away regardless if YOU want to get rid of it or not. if they don't like it well then they can just get used to it. I know this could be painful but it will hurt you a lot more possibly if you don't do this. I am merely suggesting that you be prepared for this option because it MIGHT be necessary because this could seriously hurt you as a person if you don't. of course your parents may be understanding or at least open-minded enough to at least learn a few things about this so make sure to let them know at the earliest possibility that they know that this is not going to stop more because NOTHING can make it stop anyways. then show them some factual data about misconceptions concerning this so you can show them how NOT stereotype you because it's ridiculously EASY to do that but it takes a little learning to know otherwise and you should be fine.
    Actually my aim was more to discuss the general concept of moving out, but as you bring up my own personal experience, let's talk about it.

    I'd start with saying that you seem to make quite a number of assumptions. I'm 31, I live with my family and I always have. It's not like I became interested in diapers just a few days ago, I've actually been since I was 5, so you assuming that my close relatives are completely clueless about it sounds a bit funny. Also, you're assuming that, in 31 years of my life, my knowledge of my parents' way of thinking is so scarce that I need to fear unexpected reactions or intolerance scenarios like the ones you depicted. Well, if that was the case, I'd most definitely be one of the people who decide to move out as soon as they can. But I'm lucky enough for it not being even remotely close to reality, as my folks are people who go by the saying "live and let live". Hell, we literally just had a conversation during dinner about how *I* am the one who needs to be more tolerant of others!

    Of course this doesn't mean I go around flaunting my diapers or anything, actually I could easily wear 24/7 with no one being the wiser about it. Here is exactly where comes into play the part about everyone having their own privacy, where "privacy" means that there are some aspects in the lives of each one of us that - even though not being kept secret at all costs - simply are private. It's the same reason for which I don't go asking my parents whether they have some fetishes, or which is their favorite position for having sex. It's not like I would freak out if I discovered anything like that by chance, but sure I won't willingly investigate it!

    Here at home I keep a quite bulky stash of diapers, it's not locked up or anything, and if someone wanted to be nosy they could easily go through it. But it never happened! Sure my family members have some knowledge of the fact that throughout the years I've shown an interest towards diapers - I've been busted more than once in the past - but there's no need to bring up or discuss something that ultimately doesn't interest them. Or would you really like your parents or your siblings having an extensive discussion with you explaining their own quirks in detail? With that said, I'm very confident that I could have an open talk with them about my diapers and all the rest, it's just that I don't really see the point in that! Besides, I'm way past the age where my parents get to choose my underwear for me, don't you think?

    Last, but not least, I'd like to point out that, while my initial post was not specifically aimed at the idea of moving out because of diapers, you reinforced my belief that, if I had to think of a reason to move out, the only one would be having more privacy than I already have for my DL-related stuff (and as I said I really can't complain, considering my current stash could keep me padded 24/7 for more than a year). Which, honestly, is not enough of a reason to spend hundreds of thousands of euros for getting a house on my own. Renting would be even worse, as I'd be spending money and still owning nothing in the end! All this while the space I use here at home (which includes the surface taken by my studio, office, and bedroom, in total more than 100 m^2) would remain empty and unused, not counting that in this area getting an equivalent space would cost an awful lot of money.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremiah View Post
    In America, there are two socially acceptable paths after high school: going away to college or starting work and renting an apartment. Someone working and living with parents is viewed as somehow not being able to live independent from them; this is shameful for both the parents and the young adult. Also, the parents frequently require compensation for continuing to provide food and shelter and continue the same rules as when the person was a teen. This is because young adults are viewed as a burden on their parents and still their child when they still live at home.

    Is it correct to instantly go from parents provide all support and set all rules to "your turn"? My view is that this is wrong and other cultures do it better. Single people's first place is often a rented dwelling with cheap rent often shared with others who are not as well known as the parents. No one there owns anything of value or has any significant savings. What income is there frequently is not budgeted appropriately and is wasted. Furniture often consists of a mattress on the floor and second-hand couches. However, the entertainment center is usually top-notch. Often, there is personality conflict with at least one roommate. At my first apartment, the telephone got disconnected because the guy receiving everyone's share of the expense didn't pay it. I later found out the electric bill was also over a month behind when that bill was transferred to me. Years later, I had another roommate who promised to pay a flat $300 a month. He frequently did not pay the full amount on time and did not care how much electricity he used. Roommates can easily make even questionable parents look good.
    Yep, this is exactly my point. Moving out for a reason surely makes sense, but doing so "just for the sake of it", or for a fundamentally irrational cultural expectation is not just pointless, but potentially negative too. Sure it's always a matter of balancing the pros and cons, and sometimes even a cheap place with bad furniture and all that jazz is more desirable than still living with one's relatives.

    For what I've seen around, I'd say that not just in Italy, but in other European countries too, 18 y/o people are often still seen and treated as kids by their (overprotective) parents, which is equally as bad as throwing your offspring out as soon as they hit legal age.

    Compensation is a more than reasonable thing depending on the situation: in my case I don't get asked for it, but I don't ask either when I'm the one going to shop for food or other goods for the household.

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