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Thread: Before ABs

  1. #1

    Default Before ABs

    I came across this blog post: http://priceonomics.com/the-price-of-a-child/. There was more that was relevant but this bit particularly caught my eye:



    Zelizer writes that in 18th century Europe, “the death of an infant or a young child was a minor event, met with a mixture of indifference and resignation.” She quotes a French philosopher of the time who wrote, “I have lost two or three children in infancy, not without regret, but without great sorrow.”

    Historians find, for example, no evidence during the period that the English wore or displayed symbols of mourning when young children died and that the French commonly buried young children in the backyard like Americans bury pets today. Colonial Americans called newborns “it” or “the little stranger.” While the death of young children was greeted with sorrow, the next born child often took the name of its departed sibling.
    Could an AB that we would recognize come out of such an environment? How might the more universal needs that are often served by what we do be expressed in that kind of world? Just something to mull over.

  2. #2

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    I don't think I understand your question.

    Are you asking since infant mortality was high, that any future kid who survived infancy might be more babied back then beyond a acceptable age. Or if a infant dies, the mother "babies" the older child they might of already had?

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire2box View Post
    I don't think I understand your question.

    Are you asking since infant mortality was high, that any future kid who survived infancy might be more babied back then beyond a acceptable age. Or if a infant dies, the mother "babies" the older child they might of already had?
    What I got from the blog was that childhood as we understand it didn't really exist before the 1800s. If children are not prized, coddled, and childhood is not romanticized, can you have an AB who yearns for that time of life again? My AB side is a little different from that more common desire but without the trappings of babyhood and young childhood and the care that goes with it, I wouldn't have a reference point either. However, I've seen cited here a few times that badly injured Roman soldiers could be cared for in ways similar to very young children and I don't think the desires that most of us express via our ABism are recent developments. Humans would likely still have some kind of kinky need to feel safe, secure, and protected, and I wondered how that might be expressed absent a child culture where those things are all present.

  4. #4

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    I think that presumes the sole motive for being an AB is to return to that little slice of perfect childhood we never had. There are a lot more reasons than that as is apparent in this very diverse community.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    I think that presumes the sole motive for being an AB is to return to that little slice of perfect childhood we never had. There are a lot more reasons than that as is apparent in this very diverse community.
    That certainly wasn't my intention. As I said, that's not my AB motivation and I'm sure there are other drivers out there. Even so, it appears to be a pretty common motivation for ABs. I'm not really looking to be a baby or child again, but without the culture that supports babies and children, I think my kinks would have settled elsewhere and I don't think it's a big reach to think that would have affected many others as well.

  6. #6

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    I hear what you are saying, I am just not sure the one thought logically means the other. Interesting idea. I have often considered that ABDLism is a fetish of luxury and exists only because of the excesses of our time.... I can't prove or disprove that either, but may fit a little with what you are saying.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
    Could an AB that we would recognize come out of such an environment?
    Pretty sure the answer to this is "no.". One can't yearn to regress to our particular desired state of comfort and security if comfort and security were never associated with that portion of life in the first place. There are some parallels, but they are sparse and there are big gaps of the AB/DL identity that simply didn't exist back then.

    Whether we might see something analogous, but with fundamentally different details, is pretty impossible to say.

  8. #8

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    I know little to nothing about my first years, just that I was put up for adoption and adopted at the age of two. I remember having two teddy bears, one new and one beat up. I'm guessing the terribly used one came from the adoption agency and that I might have stayed there for a time until they found a suitable couple to adopt me. I say this to support a premise that I may have not had loving and comforting parental involvement in my early life.

    Oddly, I'm extremely AB/DL with the AB side having existed since I was four years of age, by my memory. Perhaps I was seeking something I never had, or maybe there was an element of that, first from my birth mother and then in the institution. But it never could have been ideal or normal.

    Probably, there is a natural desire for each infant to be nurtured and loved. We know that infants need to be held otherwise they can suffer from something called "failure to thrive". Even if it is in small amounts, or absent, the need is inborn and will always be there. Does this mean that in its absence, it's still sought, and even replicated by people such as ourselves? I think it is, especially in my case.

    We've seen two types of early backgrounds stated on this site, those who had good early childhoods, and those who didn't, yet each group needed to wear and use diapers, repeating those early activities, again and again. We are a complicated lot.

  9. #9

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    Very interesting thought.

    Regressing to a time in life where you were just an, "it" reminds me of Dave Pelzer's story. Even those who regress to resolve stress would not have a base of comfort.

    I would say my regression is benefited by the commercialization of how happy and fun it is to be a baby. Everyone cares for upbringing of an infant and child that the novelty of such is a thought of comfort. Without it I believe you have a point that many would find their comfort back at the bar or elsewhere.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
    Could an AB that we would recognize come out of such an environment? How might the more universal needs that are often served by what we do be expressed in that kind of world? Just something to mull over.
    I follow that blog too, although I'm a bit behind. I think part of dogboy's comment is extremely relevant:



    Quote Originally Posted by dogboy View Post
    We've seen two types of early backgrounds stated on this site, those who had good early childhoods, and those who didn't, yet each group needed to wear and use diapers, repeating those early activities, again and again. We are a complicated lot.
    The group that didn't have good childhood's would seem to be unaffected by generalized infant/child neglect. So as long as ABDLism isn't caused by an overabundance of early childhood affection, I'd expect that ABs would still exist.

    However, I think a comparison to abasiophilia might be useful:

    https://sites.google.com/site/abasioinfo/

    It's essentially the same as ABDL, but with leg braces and impaired mobility instead of diapers and regression. It's really quite remarkable - if you mentally find and replace on that site from "leg brace" to "diaper" pretty much everything still fits.

    Some information suggests that they tend to be older than AB/DLs (average age of 50, although it's admittedly a biased sample):

    https://sites.google.com/site/abasioinfo/Home/lkafo

    But there are plenty of stories on that site of people who had an interest in leg braces while young, so it's not something that develops while older.

    What the relatively older average ages suggests to me is that early exposure does play an important role in developing a kink like this, which means that if the way children were raised in the 17th century and earlier did not have whatever element that triggers AB/DL feelings, I'd expect there to be much fewer AB/DLs in the past then there are now.

    Of course, that just shifts the question to what triggers AB/DL feelings. That's a much harder question with AB/DL than with abasiophilia, since everyone is exposed to diapers early in life, but now that there's a polio vaccine early exposure to leg braces/etc is much less common.

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