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Thread: Operation Pillar of Defense

  1. #1

    Default Operation Pillar of Defense

    What are your opinions, feelings, fears?

    I only ask one thing: if you're going to quote people or post facts please back them up with reputable sources, this means no Wikipedia/CNN/BBC/FOX/Al Jazeera or any clearly biased news source unless the video/picture/news-item has been independently verified.

    Edit: Here's a little background: Since the 2009 Cast Lead Israeli incursion into Gaza there has been intermittent rocket fire from a terrorist group known as Hamas (as well as other smaller terror org's which operate in the Gaza Strip but which Hamas claims they can - for the most part - control) Over the past month they've stepped up the attack, from a couple dozen mortars and rockets being fired each month into Southern Israel to 100+ (Source, I tried to provide official Israeli figures but Anonymous has seen fit to take down any Israeli website they can in a show of solidarity with Hamas) this became an issue for the over a million people living their as it severely interfered with their lives and caused a LOT of property damage. Finally on the 14th after a series of small skirmishes that saw casualties on both sides Israel officially launched Operation Pillar of Defense (in a nod to the cloud of glory and pillar of fire that surrounded and protected the Israelites as they left Egypt -- my conjecture) with a tweet. This basically meant a bunch of airstrikes on military targets, regardless of surrounding infrastructure, the trouble is that Hamas holes up in mostly residential places, hospitals, libraries and other places with dense populations. Since then Hamas has fired over 800 (that's more than all the rockets fired last year) rockets/mortars and the IAF has targeted over 1000 Hamas positions. there's a lot more but you can find the rest for yourself.

    The most interesting moment came when the IDF live blogged the assassination of a senior Hamas official with a video of the airstrike, it's pretty cool if you ignore the fact that someone (even if he's a terrible person) is being killed.
    Last edited by Vaccine; 21-Nov-2012 at 06:44.

  2. #2

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    But Wikipedia is a reputable source, so long as you're checking their sources first, and making sure none is [citation needed]. Figured I'd pop that in. I have nothing else to contribute.

  3. #3

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    The fact is isieral can easily wipe out hammas and the only things stopping them is 1. The people launching rockets at them hide within the civilian population 2. The world is watching them and Syria likes hammas. Personally I can't careless about their stupid conflict over some stupid land. Sure it's "The Holyland" but I don't think god is stupid enough or mean enough to have people fighting over land, or think it's even that important.


    That all said, if you have the ability to kill your enemy and you tried talking it longer then I've been alive. We'll go for it.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaccine View Post
    What are your opinions, feelings, fears?
    LOL.....
    yea... like don't ask folks for their opinions and then tell them in the same breath on what they should or should not form them..... good grief, how the hell can i have an opinion if Fox-news doesn't give it to me! tell me that.....
    (taps foot impatiently with arms folded...)

  5. #5

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    Also could you at least post what this is? Don't make me go dig for information on a topic you create. a link is helpful.

  6. #6

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    I just find it really amusing the different ways the UK and the good ole US of A responded!

    Our foreign secretary William Hague basically said it was all terrible, and made a plea for everyone involved to get over it and stop, and then threatened Israel with the long-standing threat, "You won't be our friend anymore".

    Obama said that it was all necessary, but he was sorry a few folk died.

    Also, as an aside; I'm fairly sure the BBC, despite being a 'neutral' news source, is on the Palestinians side. But based on the wiki article Americans seem to side with the Isrealis. How interesting.

    Yes, I used a wiki article, and I didn't even post a link - sue me!

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by WingDog View Post
    Also could you at least post what this is? Don't make me go dig for information on a topic you create. a link is helpful.
    It's the operation Iseral is doing right now. Pretty much they are going after any hammas members/enemies they can. Iseral's attacks have killed innocents unless Hammas is recruiting 2 and 4 year old kids. But it's pretty hard to only kill people you want and not harm anything/anyone else when people are so tightly packed in.


    Sucks like hell for all the kids that die because of this though.

  8. #8

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    I'll speak broadly on the topic.

    My feelings? To my knowledge, this isn't the first time such a conflict has happened, especially recently. It's due to the complexity of the region. Very simply: Palestinian states like Gaza often do not recognize Israel as a legitimate state, and haven't for thousands of years. These wars have been largely localized, and run their course typically. I expect this same one to do the same even with the threat of the battle escalating into a regional conflict. May organizations (like the UN) and other nations have come out and said that this fighting needs to stop, but it won't because someone tells them too. It has to run its course, and the only way to put a permanent stop to this perpetual fighting, is to have an agreement between the will of the people and their governments (much like how Israel and Egypt agreed to stay out of each other's hair for the past few decades).

    I do feel sorry for those who must live in fear of rockets daily. On both sides for that matter.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Auby View Post
    I'll speak broadly on the topic.

    My feelings? To my knowledge, this isn't the first time such a conflict has happened, especially recently. It's due to the complexity of the region. Very simply: Palestinian states like Gaza often do not recognize Israel as a legitimate state, and haven't for thousands of years. These wars have been largely localized, and run their course typically. I expect this same one to do the same even with the threat of the battle escalating into a regional conflict. May organizations (like the UN) and other nations have come out and said that this fighting needs to stop, but it won't because someone tells them too. It has to run its course, and the only way to put a permanent stop to this perpetual fighting, is to have an agreement between the will of the people and their governments (much like how Israel and Egypt agreed to stay out of each other's hair for the past few decades).

    I do feel sorry for those who must live in fear of rockets daily. On both sides for that matter.
    Well, modern Israel has only existed since the last 40s so saying that they haven't been recognized by many Arab countries for thousand of years is a bit of an exaggeration.

    In any case, a hundred year ago Palestine (including current day Israel) was prominently Muslim. The decades before WWII and the years immediately following it saw a huge wave of Jewish immigration towards Palestine. At the time Palestine was British land. After WWII Great Britain and the UN decided to create a Jewish state on what was then Palestine. The plan was fiercely opposed by Arabs country in general and the local Muslim population. The Palestinians saw (and still see) Israelis as illegally occupying their land and they see terrorist groups like Hamas as freedom fighters of sorts. The fighting has been going on on and off since the 20s (when Jewish immigration started to ramp up), actually.

    It's pretty hard to really come up with a solution for this, but while what Hamas is doing is disgusting Israel is far from blameless. Their insistence that Hamas stops violence and recognized Israel as a Jewish state is also pretty silly. Ultimately, they are asking for the conflict to be resolved before the start of the negotiations... I get that those things haven't solved the situation in the past but, well, it's either try or eventually get destroyed. Israel is on a bit of a clock. If it doesn't resolve the situation in Palestine resentment against Israel will keep rising in the Middle East. And eventually countries like Iran will be able to do more than talk the talk.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Talula View Post
    I just find it really amusing the different ways the UK and the good ole US of A responded!

    Our foreign secretary William Hague basically said it was all terrible, and made a plea for everyone involved to get over it and stop, and then threatened Israel with the long-standing threat, "You won't be our friend anymore".

    Also, as an aside; I'm fairly sure the BBC, despite being a 'neutral' news source, is on the Palestinians side. But based on the wiki article Americans seem to side with the Isrealis. How interesting.

    Yes, I used a wiki article, and I didn't even post a link - sue me!
    I would find that very true Talula about beloved BBC about being biased to the Palestinians on the Palestine/ Israel conflict but i would say that the british government does deal with the situation alot more neutrally than the americans government do.

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