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Thread: Since it's Memorial Day here in the States... and I know this may be controversial...

  1. #1

    Default Since it's Memorial Day here in the States... and I know this may be controversial...

    I wanted to say something due to the fact my grandfather and great-uncle served WWII for the US, my dad's best friend lost his sight in Korea during the Korean war, my dad lost a cousin in Vietnam, my aunt served during the cold war, I have a friend who served the 1991 Gulf War and I have friends who have been in Afghanistan and Iraq- that I respect the sacrafices they have made for the United States.

    I am saying this only cause it's Memorial Day in the states and given how military operations are now subject to controversy- I wanted to pay my respects for those here on ADISC who have served their country. If not for my disabilities, I would have gone Navy straight out of high school for four years and then joined the California Highway Patrol even though I am from Ohio-

    Memorial Day makes me think of sacrafices and how to respect those who have served and lost their lives for their country no matter where in the world. Whether it be Russia, England, France and any other country.

    I know military operations are controversial and I am fully prepared for any negative comments but having relations and friends who have worn a uniform in service of their country- I have to pay my respects to that. No matter the negative consequences or whatever- To all who have served I salute you on this Memorial Day-

    Stands up and salutes-

    WildThing121675
    Last edited by WildThing121675; 28-May-2012 at 08:14. Reason: Made a mistake...

  2. #2

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    hear hear! I may not agree with what actions the military takes/what congress makes them do, but I will always support the men and women who risk their lives for us.

    to anybody on ADISC who has served, is serving or is going to serve, I thank you from the bottom of my heart and hope you stay safe.

  3. #3
    CrinklySiren

    Default

    Why would this be controversial? Everyone has the right to salute the armed forces protecting their home land. Although I dont agree with war and I think the armed forces mistreat their soldiers, I respect the soldiers that fight because its not their fault that our government is corrupt.

    So by all means! Salute away!
    I have 2 friends in the navy and I'm proud of/salute both of them

  4. #4

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    I have nothing but respect for the people who serve for their country. However I have far less respect than the people who sit in their leather chairs and tell people to kill.

  5. #5

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    Times , thankfully change. As a wounded vet The days of hobbling through the airport on a cane and getting spit on and called a baby killer are gone.
    To my fallen brothers and yes sisters, know that I think of you every day.
    To the others here who pay their tribute thank you.
    It means more to us than you know.

  6. #6

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    I too dont agree with all the military does but I too salute them.

    I known ppl who were in it.
    A friend I took to the VA a few times so I know they go through a lot.

  7. #7

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    The individual ground-pounder is no more or less informed, skilled, or "worthwhile" than the individual laborer.

    Both are cogs in an enormous machine, worthy of the highest praise of all--the right to exist, unmolested, and serve their family in the best capacity they know.

    Military operations are inherently no different than any other: someone else has something, some resource, some ideal, some support, that some asshole hidden away somewhere decides that she wants. So, the cogs are set into motion. People are killed, families are torn asunder, people suffer. At the end, perhaps we get to hate people a little bit more--but only the RIGHT people!--but we still remain as before.

    (Unfortunately, most people are, as a general rule, stupid and small and petty and selfish. They want $2 shoes but are happy to join against slave-labor. They want "democratic liberation" for the world and yet push back when it is popular to do so.)

  8. #8

    Default



    Quote Originally Posted by h3g3l View Post
    The individual ground-pounder is no more or less informed, skilled, or "worthwhile" than the individual laborer.

    Both are cogs in an enormous machine, worthy of the highest praise of all--the right to exist, unmolested, and serve their family in the best capacity they know.

    Military operations are inherently no different than any other: someone else has something, some resource, some ideal, some support, that some asshole hidden away somewhere decides that she wants. So, the cogs are set into motion. People are killed, families are torn asunder, people suffer. At the end, perhaps we get to hate people a little bit more--but only the RIGHT people!--but we still remain as before.

    (Unfortunately, most people are, as a general rule, stupid and small and petty and selfish. They want $2 shoes but are happy to join against slave-labor. They want "democratic liberation" for the world and yet push back when it is popular to do so.)
    The difference between a military operation and a civilian one is simply yet so important. A military man or woman places their life, liberty and sacred honor ahead of personal gain for what they believe is the safety and continuation of a culture they love and believe in. A civilian does not. A civilian wagers a minimal risk for personal gain regardless of the needs of his or her culture.

    Right or wrong, a true soldier fights because he believes what he is doing is to protect his country and by extension his family and all he believes in.

    It is not a sacrifice, it a valuation of ones culture equal or greater to the value one has of his own life. No civilian Job requires you to accept your own death as a price for doing your Job.

  9. #9

    Default

    I posit you can have civilians that do this each and every day, and soldiers that wouldn't know the meaning of it.

    Just the same as you can have soldiers that do this each and every day, and civilians who wouldn't know the meaning of it.

    Plenty of civilian jobs require you to accept your own death as a price for doing your job, just as plenty of military jobs require nothing of the sort.

    To suggest otherwise, in terms of absolutism weighted to The Soldier of the State, is a prime example of jingoism at its finest. People are just that: they do the best they can with the lot they have. Soldier, Tinker, Traitor, Spy, they are fundamentally people. Look at the Christmas Day truce in the trenches: "Professional" Soldiers would have machine-gunned down the entirety of the opposing force. Instead, a truce was called for the day, and troops of both sides got to eat, drink, and sing their songs of celebration. They are people. No more, no less.

    I say these things not to kick anyone in the balls, but to point out the unfortunate fact: at their core, ALL jobs are done by people. People are fundamentally flawed and imperfect. This is okay, but especially important to realize against the backdrop of Evil Empire or Evil Corporation doing bad things--it is seldom the individual cog in the machine who is operating with willful intent. Just as I would not be especially prone to stand up and laud a typical soldier above and beyond a typical private-sector employee, I would also not be especially prone to heap blame upon the typical soldier when things do not go as we believe they ought.

    Now, the scene changes when we start to stray from the typical. I am proud to know of people like Vint Cerf, and be in a world where Stephen Hawking (warts and all) lives. These are atypical people. And I am equally proud to be in a world where the atypical soldier gets a shot at showing what s/he is all about: the soldier who rescues a child from a firefight; the soldier who drags his comrade back to safety when they are both full of bullets. These are laudable things, and these are extraordinary things.

    The RAF were incredible. The SAS men of iron. They, like the Germans, like the Americans, paid for the war with their lives. They, like the Germans, like the Americans, were subject to conditions that were both horrific and unconscionable. But, so did the cobblers, the tailors, the teachers, the children, of London. Plymouth was completely bombed-out. I believe we are better than to do some hand-waving and dismiss their sacrifice, their loss.

    Memorial Day serves, for me, as a reminder that, when a government decides that it wants to get a hard-on for a resource, it pays no direct price. Rather, its citizenry--pressured either by jingoism, fiscal necessity, or market compression--pays the price. So too do their families, friends, neighbors and communities pay.

    And the State marches on.



    Quote Originally Posted by Fragarach View Post
    The difference between a military operation and a civilian one is simply yet so important. A military man or woman places their life, liberty and sacred honor ahead of personal gain for what they believe is the safety and continuation of a culture they love and believe in. A civilian does not. A civilian wagers a minimal risk for personal gain regardless of the needs of his or her culture.

    Right or wrong, a true soldier fights because he believes what he is doing is to protect his country and by extension his family and all he believes in.

    It is not a sacrifice, it a valuation of ones culture equal or greater to the value one has of his own life. No civilian Job requires you to accept your own death as a price for doing your Job.


    ---------- Post added at 06:51 ---------- Previous post was at 06:24 ----------

    Anyway, happy Decoration Day / Memorial Day, to those of you in the United States.
    Last edited by h3g3l; 28-May-2012 at 11:49.

  10. #10

    Default



    Quote Originally Posted by h3g3l View Post
    I posit you can have civilians that do this each and every day, and soldiers that wouldn't know the meaning of it.

    Just the same as you can have soldiers that do this each and every day, and civilians who wouldn't know the meaning of it.

    Plenty of civilian jobs require you to accept your own death as a price for doing your job, just as plenty of military jobs require nothing of the sort.

    To suggest otherwise, in terms of absolutism weighted to The Soldier of the State, is a prime example of jingoism at its finest. People are just that: they do the best they can with the lot they have. Soldier, Tinker, Traitor, Spy, they are fundamentally people. Look at the Christmas Day truce in the trenches: "Professional" Soldiers would have machine-gunned down the entirety of the opposing force. Instead, a truce was called for the day, and troops of both sides got to eat, drink, and sing their songs of celebration. They are people. No more, no less.

    I say these things not to kick anyone in the balls, but to point out the unfortunate fact: at their core, ALL jobs are done by people. People are fundamentally flawed and imperfect. This is okay, but especially important to realize against the backdrop of Evil Empire or Evil Corporation doing bad things--it is seldom the individual cog in the machine who is operating with willful intent. Just as I would not be especially prone to stand up and laud a typical soldier above and beyond a typical private-sector employee, I would also not be especially prone to heap blame upon the typical soldier when things do not go as we believe they ought.

    Now, the scene changes when we start to stray from the typical. I am proud to know of people like Vint Cerf, and be in a world where Stephen Hawking (warts and all) lives. These are atypical people. And I am equally proud to be in a world where the atypical soldier gets a shot at showing what s/he is all about: the soldier who rescues a child from a firefight; the soldier who drags his comrade back to safety when they are both full of bullets. These are laudable things, and these are extraordinary things.

    The RAF were incredible. The SAS men of iron. They, like the Germans, like the Americans, paid for the war with their lives. They, like the Germans, like the Americans, were subject to conditions that were both horrific and unconscionable. But, so did the cobblers, the tailors, the teachers, the children, of London. Plymouth was completely bombed-out. I believe we are better than to do some hand-waving and dismiss their sacrifice, their loss.

    Memorial Day serves, for me, as a reminder that, when a government decides that it wants to get a hard-on for a resource, it pays no direct price. Rather, its citizenry--pressured either by jingoism, fiscal necessity, or market compression--pays the price. So too do their families, friends, neighbors and communities pay.

    And the State marches on.



    ---------- Post added at 06:51 ---------- Previous post was at 06:24 ----------

    Anyway, happy Decoration Day / Memorial Day, to those of you in the United States.
    so you turn a phrase well enough. but have you by chance served in the Military of the United States of America..... ?
    a simple question......

    ---------- Post added at 09:24 ---------- Previous post was at 07:09 ----------



    Quote Originally Posted by WildThing121675 View Post
    I wanted to say something due to the fact my grandfather and great-uncle served WWII for the US, my dad's best friend lost his sight in Korea during the Korean war, my dad lost a cousin in Vietnam, my aunt served during the cold war, I have a friend who served the 1991 Gulf War and I have friends who have been in Afghanistan and Iraq- that I respect the sacrafices they have made for the United States.

    I am saying this only cause it's Memorial Day in the states and given how military operations are now subject to controversy- I wanted to pay my respects for those here on ADISC who have served their country. If not for my disabilities, I would have gone Navy straight out of high school for four years and then joined the California Highway Patrol even though I am from Ohio-

    Memorial Day makes me think of sacrafices and how to respect those who have served and lost their lives for their country no matter where in the world. Whether it be Russia, England, France and any other country.

    I know military operations are controversial and I am fully prepared for any negative comments but having relations and friends who have worn a uniform in service of their country- I have to pay my respects to that. No matter the negative consequences or whatever- To all who have served I salute you on this Memorial Day-

    Stands up and salutes-

    WildThing121675
    thank you, WildThing........ (for starting this thread)

    and for everyone who server Their Country; The United States of America..... and everyone of their family and friends who helped to make the service possible, and most especially for those who have died in that service, or of that service....... yours was never a job, never just work, never a decent paycheck. it was never something you could bring home and talk about with family or friends. often times it may even have been a memory better cut out or berried where it would never see light again...... well, all i can say is, this "Buds" for You!

    lodge wrecker... QM-2 SS ......

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