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Thread: Einestines theory wrong?

  1. #1

    Default Einestines theory wrong?

    So ive had a lot of down time lately to thibk, and ive think ive discovered a flaw in his theory.

    First off, he states that "Gravity travels at the spees of light."

    Second he stated "A black holes gravitational pull is so great, not even light can escape it."

    But now these two things contridict each other. If light and gravity are the sane speed, how can it not escape the gravitational pull unless gravity moves at a greater speed than light?

    Help with my thoughts please? Tell me if I'm wrong it won't hurt my feelers! Lol

  2. #2

    Default

    Well maybe he was using light as a refrence for gravity? We don't know anything faster lol.

    But no, I digress, *head explodes*

  3. #3

  4. #4

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    Well first of all, it's not wrong to think about things like this, because wondering about light and gravity and space and time is what got Einstein started down the road to being one of the greatest physicists in history.

    Einstein did in fact say that gravity moves at the speed of light -- that is, if somebody somehow moved the Sun, which is about 8 light-minutes away, we wouldn't notice for 8 minutes that it had happened. The change in the Sun's gravity that we'd feel would happen to us about the same time that we could see what had happened. The light and the change in gravity would travel at about the same speed and would get to us at about the same time. The light might be a tiny bit slower because there might be some matter in the way, but not a lot slower.

    Einstein himself didn't come up with the idea of black holes, but his theory and its equations predicted them. They say that mass warps spacetime with its gravity, and spacetime is the world that you and I and everything else moves in, so when things move through this warped spacetime, they move along a path that looks like there's a force pulling masses together. But it's not really a force -- it's bent spacetime, bending the paths of things. The more mass you have in a small volume of space, the more spacetime bends. The Earth bends spacetime enough that the Moon is in orbit around it; its path is bent into a closed loop. And if you could keep packing more and more mass into the same size space, you would eventually reach a point where spacetime bent so far that even the path of something as fast as light would bend into a closed loop.

    You can't get faster than the physical constant "c", which isn't really the speed of light -- it's the speed of light in a vacuum, with absolutely nothing to slow it down. If something that fast is bent into a closed loop, then, nothing can escape. You've bent spacetime back on itself, in your imaginary black hole you've thought up. You've divided spacetime into two parts: the part inside, and the part outside. Nothing inside can get out. But outside, near the black hole, gravity is very strong, spacetime is still bent, and it still seems to pull things inward.

    Does that mean you're wrong? Actually it means you're right. Whatever happens inside the black hole, it can't affect the outside world. Assuming somebody was still alive in there, they could move around a flashlight, pointing it in different directions, but the light would never be able to leave. They could move around the masses in there, but the changes in gravity from doing that wouldn't make any difference to the world outside. The black hole as a whole affects the rest of the universe with its gravity, but changes from inside it wouldn't make it out.

    You asked a fascinating question!

  5. #5

    Default



    Quote Originally Posted by LilJennie View Post
    Well first of all, it's not wrong to think about things like this, because wondering about light and gravity and space and time is what got Einstein started down the road to being one of the greatest physicists in history.

    Einstein did in fact say that gravity moves at the speed of light -- that is, if somebody somehow moved the Sun, which is about 8 light-minutes away, we wouldn't notice for 8 minutes that it had happened. The change in the Sun's gravity that we'd feel would happen to us about the same time that we could see what had happened. The light and the change in gravity would travel at about the same speed and would get to us at about the same time. The light might be a tiny bit slower because there might be some matter in the way, but not a lot slower.

    Einstein himself didn't come up with the idea of black holes, but his theory and its equations predicted them. They say that mass warps spacetime with its gravity, and spacetime is the world that you and I and everything else moves in, so when things move through this warped spacetime, they move along a path that looks like there's a force pulling masses together. But it's not really a force -- it's bent spacetime, bending the paths of things. The more mass you have in a small volume of space, the more spacetime bends. The Earth bends spacetime enough that the Moon is in orbit around it; its path is bent into a closed loop. And if you could keep packing more and more mass into the same size space, you would eventually reach a point where spacetime bent so far that even the path of something as fast as light would bend into a closed loop.

    You can't get faster than the physical constant "c", which isn't really the speed of light -- it's the speed of light in a vacuum, with absolutely nothing to slow it down. If something that fast is bent into a closed loop, then, nothing can escape. You've bent spacetime back on itself, in your imaginary black hole you've thought up. You've divided spacetime into two parts: the part inside, and the part outside. Nothing inside can get out. But outside, near the black hole, gravity is very strong, spacetime is still bent, and it still seems to pull things inward.

    Does that mean you're wrong? Actually it means you're right. Whatever happens inside the black hole, it can't affect the outside world. Assuming somebody was still alive in there, they could move around a flashlight, pointing it in different directions, but the light would never be able to leave. They could move around the masses in there, but the changes in gravity from doing that wouldn't make any difference to the world outside. The black hole as a whole affects the rest of the universe with its gravity, but changes from inside it wouldn't make it out.

    You asked a fascinating question!
    Thanks for the reply. I've just been thinking since I've been out of high school cause I graduated in 2010 I don't have a teacher to ask haha.

    One other thing... Haha.
    I don't know if you're familiar with absolute zero, but I've been thinking that once you reach it, all particles stop moving, so wouldn't they condense and forum a super heavy mass because it would fill in the empty spaces beteen the particles? Just curious haha

    ---------- Post added at 01:15 ---------- Previous post was at 01:14 ----------

    oh byt he way, sophomore year I stumped my science teacher with that absolute zero
    Question. Lol =P

  6. #6

    Default

    Gravity doesn't move though, it's just a pulling force coming from a object.

    At least thats my understanding of it.


    Now about magnets.... ::gets shot in the head::

  7. #7

    Default



    Quote Originally Posted by Fire2box View Post
    Gravity doesn't move though, it's just a pulling force coming from a object.

    At least thats my understanding of it.


    Now about magnets.... ::gets shot in the head::
    I'm sorry, I made everyones heads explode. Lol

  8. #8

    Default



    Quote Originally Posted by BBalljustin View Post
    Thanks for the reply. I've just been thinking since I've been out of high school cause I graduated in 2010 I don't have a teacher to ask haha.

    One other thing... Haha.
    I don't know if you're familiar with absolute zero, but I've been thinking that once you reach it, all particles stop moving, so wouldn't they condense and forum a super heavy mass because it would fill in the empty spaces beteen the particles? Just curious haha

    ---------- Post added at 01:15 ---------- Previous post was at 01:14 ----------

    oh byt he way, sophomore year I stumped my science teacher with that absolute zero
    Question. Lol =P
    It's good to ask questions like this. It's how you learn. And if the person you ask doesn't know, maybe they'll learn something by finding out the answer too. Everybody gets smarter.

    If you could take all the energy out of matter, you'd have a very dense chunk of solid stuff at the bottom of your freezer. It wouldn't necessarily be black-hole dense, or even white dwarf star dense, but I'd say it would be denser than it would be at room temperature. But the problem is that you can't do that.

    Just practically speaking, you can take more and more energy out of matter and make it colder and colder, but it uses more and more energy to do this. Effectively it would take infinite energy to reach absolute zero. It's a limit, but not a reachable limit, much like the speed of light is an unreachable limit for anything that has mass.

  9. #9

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    By the way I ment to put "so in theory it would make a black hole when it all condenses" at the absolute zero part.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire2box View Post

    Now about magnets.... ::gets shot in the head::
    But i wanted to know how they worked!

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