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Thread: homophobia...any ideas?

  1. #1

    Default homophobia...any ideas?

    so before anyone feels the need to flag this let me throw out some background info leading up to my question.my names scott i am 19 and i am gay have ben out sence i was 15.last week i went out of town with my sponcer to a social distortion show,on the way back after the show my sponcer brought up a the topic of my being very homophobic.im confused,how the hell can i be both?there is a all night diner i hangout at alot for the coffee,i was out there the other day and a very flameing gay black guy walked by and i herd 2 guys at the next table say something smug and offencive.i wanted to smack the crap outa the guy that sead it but i was thinking the same damn thing! my question is what can i do about it? it is a deep rooted hatered intertwined with self esteem,substance abuse and a bitterness that words cant describe. i have tried to open up and talk to people, have tried therapy,have tried to meet more gay people but it just reinforces my hatered. anyone have any ideas or experience on the subject? thanks-scott.

  2. #2

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    Referring to the specific case you mentioned, it all depends whether the comments originated from the sole fact of the black guy being gay, or - as I understood it from what you say - from him having a flaming behavior. In the latter case, I wouldn't call it homophobia, it's just like calling a bitch a girl that purposely acts as such. If this was your case, the thoughts that went through your brain - and through the two other guys' mouth - weren't in my opinion any more rude than the behavior of the flaming guy. Why does someone need to throw in everyone's face his own sexuality by acting as a walking advertisement of it?

    Speaking more generally, do you experience such feelings towards any homosexual person, or just when they act as the mentioned guy?

  3. #3

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    both,more so the second tho. i see it as a am a guy that likes guys.not girls not girley guys.im not the posterboy for ultra masc jock straps and ass slaps but im by no means fem.6ft tall stalky built full beard tats n piercings with a seemingly intimadating demeanor .the guy your parents tell you not to hang out with in highschool,not the guy doing his nails with cheerleaders if that makes any sence

    its a fucking violation of my core beliefs that i am in any way that guy with the fabulous lisp that ses words like like.ya know,or crap like that when i have nothing of value to say.that watches oprah or rupaul or the view,the baseline stereotype queer. i see it as a weakness.

  4. #4
    Loopygone

    Default

    As much as I'm not a fan of that stereotype "queen/flamer" I don't see it as a reflection on me being gay (well I'm bi actually but the point still stands). I wonder why you hate it so much, you have too look back and think, and work out where this hate is coming from.

    It's like being an abdl but hating your self because some abdls like to mess. It's not really a reason to hate them, just because you can't get over it. Just ignore that aspect and move on. It's not something to hate over. They're just different. It seems like you denied you were gay to your self for a while, and you associated being gay with this ultraflaming stereotype, whilst you your self want to remain super macho (for me this is as much of a turn off as the other extreme). I suggest getting out there and meeting more people who identify as gay, and you should come to realise that for the most part your standard gay guy is just like your standard straight guy.
    Last edited by Loopygone; 16-May-2011 at 08:15.

  5. #5

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    dont get me wrong on the abtbdl im fine with that but like you put it-associated being gay with this ultraflaming stereotype, whilst you your self want to remain super macho- i completly agree with that statement.i came out at 15 but i was hevy into a culture where to be gay is to be weak and by comeing out i was put out there as a target

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by sdogg View Post
    its a fucking violation of my core beliefs that i am in any way that guy with the fabulous lisp that ses words like like.ya know,or crap like that when i have nothing of value to say.that watches oprah or rupaul or the view,the baseline stereotype queer. i see it as a weakness.
    Question time: What's the problem with someone that does like RuPaul or has a lisp? Are they a threat to you? Have they done anything to you? What makes you better than them?

    Let me ask that last question again. What makes you, or more broadly a "masculine" guy, better than a queeny effeminate guy?

    You say you see being effeminate as a sign of weakness. I get it. I went to a high school where the couple of effeminate kids got the shit beaten out of them pretty regularly. But then, that theoretically eliminates them as being a physical threat. I think you and Loopy have both established that you have a certain fear of being "associated" with effeminate gay guys, meaning that the "threat" they pose is making you appear weak.

    I would assert that this, at its core, is a self-confidence issue. I would assert that, despite coming out four years ago, that you're not confident or comfortable with yourself being gay, and that causes you to worry about how people perceive you. Alternatively, there's a part of you that's jealous that they are confident enough to be so open, and you're not.

    So again, question time. Do you believe yourself to be weak? For that matter, how do you define weak? One could go with a stereotypical definition of strength, the physical, muscular strength. Or, one could assert that someone who's comfortable enough in their own skin to be a bit of a target in society is actually stronger than one who feels they need to look "macho" and fit in.

    I didn't come out until I was 25. Before then, I was hiding who I was, that I was gay and some other parts of my personality. After I came out, some of my friends literally remarked that I became a "whole person" instead of just "guy the stereotype. I was hiding because I was afraid, of people's reactions, of divine wrath, of what being gay meant. I had to reconcile a lot of things before I finally was comfortable enough with myself to come out and stop hiding.

    I would assert that you're in a similar place to what I was. You've admitted you're gay, which is very commendable, and more than I had done at that age. But, I don't you've actually come out yet, if that makes any sense. I think you're still hiding, and that you're still afraid, afraid of people's reactions, what it means to be gay, and whatever other things as well.

    Loopy makes some good points, especially about meeting people. Here's the thing-we're all people, and none of us can escape this life alive. We all are born, we all breathe, we all eat, we all sleep, we all die, and we're all fragile. None of us are any better than any other of us, as we all bring something valuable to the proverbial table, some interesting insight, some unique talent, or some other thing. The guys who are super effeminate and like RuPaul and have a lisp and whatnot are often some of the more grounded individuals I meet, because they won't, and in some cases can't hide. They have already faced down some of their fears and have gotten on with living life.

  7. #7

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    wow i hafto agree with that whole statement.as far as the confidence part goes theres not a doubt in my mind.it seems to be a main theme in my life lately. on the strong vs weak part,we all have diferent methods of survival. i put up walls and push people out of my life. xbabyx how did you find the path to acceptance and love? any tips?

  8. #8

    Default

    The first step is coming to terms with yourself, I should think. Based off my personal experiences along those lines, not a quick or easy process. In many ways, I'm still suffering from a lack of confidence. Once you're comfortable with yourself, the power of others to threaten you fades dramatically.

  9. #9

    Default

    sdogg,

    I'm not gay - and mind you I really don't mind anyone being gay... I couldn't care less

    But I really dislike those effeminate "men" (the "metrosexual" type" or the very girly type)... I hate that the world has come to a point when someone thinks that such a person is considered a man... he might be a male - but not a "man" in my book.
    I'm not saying someone needs to be frickin' rambo to be a man... but makeup? going to the hairstylist twice a month? wearing all those pink shirts and girly stuff? needing to have at least some sort of depression, at least a tiny little bit of eating disorder and stuff like that and feeling the need to have emotional breakdowns at work.
    Well that is about the most "antipode" to being a man that I can see.
    And mind you, I don't care whether such a person is gay or straight - I don't like that type of behaviour in anyone.


    Maybe I'm old fashioned in this regard, yes I surely was raised with that kind of mindset...
    Ever since I can think though, that type of metrosexual, effeminate "male" has been repulsive in my own views.

    One of my best friends is a gay and is what I would define as a man.... that he's homosexual is about the same as that I'm heterosexual... I couldn't care less, and so does he. he likes dudes, I like chicks and that's the point. but he doesn't do the whole "flaming" thing and to be honest, whilst he's open about being gay if someone asks or is with his partner in public... he is one of those who utterly hates those "flaming gays" ... same as you he says they put a bad label on him and other gays and he does not want to be associated with that.

    so I guess it has nothing to with being "homophobic" in general.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by xbabyx View Post
    I would assert that this, at its core, is a self-confidence issue. I would assert that, despite coming out four years ago, that you're not confident or comfortable with yourself being gay, and that causes you to worry about how people perceive you. Alternatively, there's a part of you that's jealous that they are confident enough to be so open, and you're not.
    While your general response here, that there's nothing intrinsically wrong with an effeminate, stereotypical homosexual, is valid and deserves to be stated, I think you go too far with this line.

    It's perfectly reasonable to care how other people perceive your stereotype because that has a direct effect on how you are perceived. You stand to gain or lose from one's preconceived notions, so you have a stake in them. I care what people think about college students, liberals, asexuals, science majors, early-20s men, and ABDLs because all of their biases affect how I have to interact with them.

    When those stereotypes blatantly don't fit me, it means explaining and hassles. With sexuality issues, such are amplified due to the touchy nature of taboo issues and inane moral beliefs held by others.

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