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Thread: Apparently Miscarriage = Murder now...

  1. #1

    Default Apparently Miscarriage = Murder now...

    A Georgia lawmaker wants to make the termination of pregnancy illegal, renaming it to 'prenatal murder'. I don't agree with this in the first place, being pro-choice. But, hey, if you want to get all technical about it...

    ...Wait for it...

    And they want to make MISCARRIAGES punishable by life and prison or the DEATH PENALTY.

    Yup, folks, that's right. This irrational man, Bobby Franklin, wants to make miscarriages, a completely random bodily activity, illegal. And he wants to push murder charges against the poor grieving women who have had them.

    This bothers me on so many levels. This article accurately describes how I feel about this. With all the pro-life, anti-sexuality laws that are being put out there lately, I can't help but think that we're all totally screwed. What the hell is next? Are we going to criminalize menstruation too? Because that's the termination of an unfertilized egg that could have -gasp- LIVED TO BE A HUMAN!!!!??!!

    Seriously. Just what the hell is going on here and what could it have progressed to if it had been passed (because you know that nobody's going to pass that bull)? If we outlawed cigarettes and all forms of tobacco, would we charge lung cancer and emphysema patients because cigarettes cause cancer?

    tl;dr: Uterus police could lead to more body policing in terms of illnesses and bodily tragedies. Discuss how stupid this is.

    Sources: Miscarriage-as-Murder Bill Center of GOP War on Women | RHRealityCheck.org
    http://motherjones.com/blue-marble/2...enalty-georgia

    Also, some lolz on the subject of this stupidity: Dear Rep. Franklin: I Submit My Used Tampons as Evidence | RHRealityCheck.org

    --------------------

    EDIT: For anyone coming here just now, let me clarify something:

    This bill would make abortion illegal, changing the name to 'prenatal murder'. A miscarriage would be grounds for an investigation of 'prenatal murder'. What this implies and means, we don't know for sure. But we do know that it's ridiculous and that it's basically "Insanely restrictive pro-life + invasion of privacy and morality".

    My grandmother, who is a very pro-life, conservatively holy Christian woman, thinks that this is batshit insane. That should say something.
    Last edited by Shukkume; 26-Feb-2011 at 14:23. Reason: Derpin' on the details

  2. #2

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    This is ridiculous, and I really imagine there's no way that this stands a chance of passing the Georgia legislature.

    A lot of nuts get into state houses . . . I wonder if it's because the campaigns are lower profile, so people tend to vote more by party ID than in a higher-profile race?

  3. #3
    Butterfly Mage

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    You have to remember that the Tea Party seeks to establish a theocratic plutocracy in America. They want to bring back the "Good Ol' Days" when women were kept barefoot and pregnant, when Christianity was the only permissible religion, when gays could be jailed simply for being gay, and when blacks were affordable.

    The GOP might not be able to catch terrorists worth a damn, but they sure know how to wage war on women, the poor, and unpopular minorities.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Butterfly Mage View Post
    You have to remember that the Tea Party seeks to establish a theocratic plutocracy in America. They want to bring back the "Good Ol' Days" when women were kept barefoot and pregnant, when Christianity was the only permissible religion, when gays could be jailed simply for being gay, and when blacks were affordable.

    The GOP might not be able to catch terrorists worth a damn, but they sure know how to wage war on women, the poor, and unpopular minorities.
    That's pretty extreme, Butterfly Mage. I'd ask you to point out any time that any high-ranking (House or Senate leadership) member of the GOP has advocated for slavery within the past couple of decades. You have to remember, not all Republicans or even Tea Partiers are like this. I used to be a member of the Republican party, and there are very reasonable Republicans who hold elected office. Look at Olympia Snowe, for instance.

    Bigotry and ignorance has no party label.

  5. #5
    Butterfly Mage

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    KTH: I did state a difference between the Tea Party and the GOP. There were LOTS of Tea Party leaders that got the "push" from their positions in 2008 when they'd write stupid things on Facebook like "blacks don't deserve their freedom". Obviously someone with those views is unelectable and thus there aren't any representatives int he House/Senate with that particular view. They did try, however.

    My gripe with the mainstream GOP is that they sold out to the multi-national corporations.

  6. #6

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    Butterfly Mage, I usually don't disagree with you but in this case that is, as KTH said, "pretty extreme"! I am a little more right of center but I try to follow the 'truth' from both sides after sifting thru the propaganda and flat out BS that surrounds each idea and what you have described is no where near a truth. I hate to say it but it has really dropped my overall image (which was high) of you because I thought you were one of the voices of reason and thought. I'm sure after saying that the next reply follows under how we both feel about 'others opinion of us' in general doesn't matter but it's still a sad thing to see.

    I would love to see -anything- that could possibly back up at least a part of what you claim. I am always open to learning and if what you say is true then it could change my political view to just as strongly! *but please, legitimate and honest sources and not the insane ramblings of someone who hears something and blows it out of proportion then tries to relay it to others as 'truth'. There is waaaay too much of that already and it doesn't do anyone any good.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shukkume View Post
    And they want to make MISCARRIAGES punishable by life and prison or the DEATH PENALTY.
    Wow, just wow!
    My mom is a two time murderer in his eyes! Natural miscarriages are, even to those who say that a fetus is a human being, deaths due to natural causes. I had a grandfather who died of cancer. Is that also a crime?

    At least we can hopefully rely upon the fact that not every politician is quite as lame, and that it will be shot down soon enough. Just a loony who sadly got the position he currently has.



    What the hell is next? Are we going to criminalize menstruation too? Because that's the termination of an unfertilized egg that could have -gasp- LIVED TO BE A HUMAN!!!!??!!
    Hey, if you put that in the hands of someone who declares masturbation a sin, that may not be too far fetched.

  8. #8
    Butterfly Mage

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    Here ya go!
    tea party leader fired for racise comments - Yahoo! Search Results

    It generates a LOT of articles!

  9. #9

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    Hold up a sec. Let's get a few things straight here:

    The bill is not making miscarriages as such illegal -- that claim is all liberal-media hype. Here's what the bill is actually proposing: first, it proposes that the State is not bound by the Supreme Court's decision in Roe v. Wade to uphold abortion (see part a). It further wants to rebrand any manner of *intentional* termination of a pregnancy as "prenatal murder." It defines this term in part b, subheading 2, wherein it explicitly states that miscarriage does *not* qualify as prenatal murder. Read it for yourself:



    Such term [prenatal murder] does not include a naturally occurring expulsion of a fetus known medically as a 'spontaneous abortion' and popularly as a 'miscarriage' so long as there is no human involvement in the event whatsoever
    As is (so I believe) standard procedure, fetal death must be accounted for, as described in section 2.14. Having read through the bill, I can find no substantial evidence in support for the claim made in the Zalot blog the OP posted. Moreover, Zalot's only cites in support of her claim another blog, which in turn only refers back to the bill. Is this all sounding like a game of telephone to anyone else?

    The blog Zalot links to, written by Amie Newman, claims:


    In other words, if I suffer a miscarriage (which I have) and can't "prove" that I know what the cause was (which, even now in my case, who the hell really knows?), then I can be prosecuted for murder
    The full version can be found here.

    My best guess would be that the author is speculating that if she were unable to prove that her child died naturally, she would be charged with prenatal murder. Whether that is or isn't the case, I cannot say. But it is beyond the scope the bill in question, which, when it comes to punishment, only refers to existing laws on murder. I'm no doctor, but from what I know about abortions, the idea that a miscarriage could be confused with an abortion is laughable, and I believe the medical convention is to assume natural causes unless autopsy reveals foul play.

    So in the end, this is really nothing more than the state of Georgia trying to overturn Roe v. Wade. It's still controversial, but it's a far cry from outlawing miscarriages.


    The full bill can be found at the following address: www.legis.ga.gov/Legislation/en-US/display.aspx?Legislation=31965.

  10. #10

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    It's not like a law like this would pass or be able to stand up without the supreme court smacking it down. Hopefully the people of Gerogia don't waste their vote on a guy who's wasted their taxes and time.

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