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Thread: Confusing incon question - brain activity over nerve damage?

  1. #1

    Default Confusing incon question - brain activity over nerve damage?

    Something I noticed from my 'wetting diary'... I would notice it now and then but reading back I started to see something I guess I wasn't quite putting together. about 80% of the time I just get home no matter what time it is I end up flooding/leaking either right before or right after I walk in the front door. I sorta just plan on when I get home it's time for a change because 'I'm starting to leak or soon will be'. But the times are very different. Coincidence?

    I wonder if there is actually 'something' to that? Like maybe some sort of psychological thing that 'your home safe now so leaks are ok'? This is something that was always like a 'hot and cold' thing with me. I hate leaking in public so I would always feel a lot more relaxed about it at home. Could it be that there is a 'brain signal' getting through? Like maybe some kind of mental training could work it like a 'backdoor'? My urologist said it was just coincidence. But then again I've busted him already not knowing stuff.

    Just reaching as usual for answers I guess. I strongly believe there is something out there non-medical that can be an answer.

  2. #2

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    Purely unscientific but even as a super-continent fellow I know that feeling. If I'm keen to go at perhaps a "7" on a scale of 1-10 (where ten is losing it), as I get closer to the opportunity to go, that can rise up very rapidly to 8-9.5 as I get in the door. I have never leaked in such situations but it feels quite urgent whereas ten minutes before it was merely insistent and I would typically expect to be able to go another hour or more from that point. I guess the next time that happens, I should hold off just a bit more and see if the storm passes.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
    Purely unscientific but even as a super-continent fellow I know that feeling.
    Hey Trevor I know a lot of the ideas (some downright silly) are very unscientific but the 'box' says in giant bold letters "your screwed!" so I'm trying to think outside it. I'm looking for any 'coincidences' or feeling/sensations even around the area to try and see if I can focus on those. Even the post for non-incons was to get an idea of what the feelings 'feel' like so I can consentrate on little areas inside. *epic fail there so far* but I just can't help thinking that with what I do know (which turns out to be sometimes more than some of the urologists i seen) and not limiting myself to "this must = that" I am hoping for at least something. Worthless or not, it's not like I don't have plenty of time to test ideas.

    It was interesting to see that time line tho. It makes me wonder even more.. I wish I knew more about how the brain works tho. I read and read and read on it and just when I think I understand something it turns out that went off on a wrong trail. Everything keeps ending up in the same places.

    Today I did have an interesting 'problem' tho. I ran out of work early to come home and get cleaned up but I 'felt' something different and it was just right before the mess. I'm not bowel incon but there is the once in a while accident. The feeling I got was probably like a 'pressure', sorta like when you feel you have to potty but it was a bit 'deeper'. Farther up than I remember feeling before. Could have been like a gas bubble or something but well... for me it was kind of exciting I got to where I really pay super close attention to any kind of feelings inside from the stomach to knees. Most likely nothing I'll feel again .... anyway. just rambeling.

    You are one of the really smart ppl on here so I'm gotta ask. Unscientific or not would it make any sense that there could be a link from 'location based control' from the brain that can bypass nerves around the bladder and u-tract?

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by kitsiulla View Post
    You are one of the really smart ppl on here so I'm gotta ask. Unscientific or not would it make any sense that there could be a link from 'location based control' from the brain that can bypass nerves around the bladder and u-tract?
    I didn't mean "unscientific" in the sense that it had no merit but that without proper testing, it's just two guys shooting the breeze. The breeze we're shooting may be entirely correct but it's just personal experience at this point. I claim no special knowledge other than a guy who has been getting news from his bladder for a long time now and we have a pretty good system going. I would not be at all surprised to learn that a lot of the urgency to go could be mental. Just one casual example is the effort that many ABDLs have to go through when starting out so they can wet a diaper, even if they really need to go.

    Off the top of my head, I can think of conscious anticipation making the need to go seem stronger, the prospect of relief might lead to relaxation of the muscles involved, or just learned conditioning that a bathroom is a place for letting go. There could be other reasons as well and it might be some combination of all of the above that's making us do the pee dance when we finally get to the toilet when it wasn't all that bad five minutes before. It's something I'll try to remember to test for myself the next time I run into that situation. Somebody somewhere makes a living testing this kind of thing. You just need to track them down and learn their secrets.

  5. #5

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    i wouldn't even know where to start on that chase.... I really would appreciate any info on what you could find out tho on that I think it would be a really cool thing to learn if the brain can over power or at least somehow go around nerve damage and still control the muscles

  6. #6

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    Hey kitsiulla, I'm new to the forum but your comments really intrigued me! Firstly, I'm not a doctor (nor would I consider myself any expert) but I have had lots of first hand experiences with the art of mental suggestion.

    It really is amazing what the brain is capable of and you really don't need to be an expert in it's anatomy to teach yourself new things. I've had lots of great experiences with relaxing while in nappies (making it far easier to wet in them) among many other things. I think Trevor is right in his comments and I remember the first time I started wearing nappied for fun it was incredibly hard to go. I find similar things when I'm at home and I find it far easier to wet whilst I'm at home - even in specific places in rooms strangely!

    I don't know your history kitsiulla or what you're trying to achieved (if anything :-)) but from what I've learned on the power of suggestion it's down to you to imagine what you want to achieve and how you want to get there - it sounds like you're already doing that :-D The brain is a pattern recognition engine - the more you do things, the more it sets the action in stone and you'll remember it longterm.

    Just my 2 cents but I'm happy to ramble further if you have any questions lol.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by damski83 View Post
    Hey kitsiulla, I'm new to the forum but your comments really intrigued me! I don't know your history kitsiulla or what you're trying to achieved (if anything :-))
    please ramble The thing I am trying to acheive is: "I think it would be a really cool thing to learn if the brain can over power or at least somehow go around nerve damage and still control the muscles" I handle incontinence issues pretty well but I would still try anything to be able to find a way to only wet when I -wanted- to

  8. #8

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    So first off this is meant to be general information and is not meant to be an opinion on your medical condition, and you should always speak to your physician about any medical concerns, treatment, diagnosis, etc.
    So, I think an important thing to remember in cases like this is often there are complex processes that are going on that we might not fully understand from an evidence-based standpoint, and because of that, while we have a great understanding of how the bladder works, the multiple different nerves which carry out a fairly complicated voiding process, and a number of different problems that are caused by defects in these nerves, there are still areas that are unclear.

    So the problem that this creates in discussing issues with patients is that sometimes it is easy to fall into the trap of over simplifying both to help the patient understand and because sometimes there isn't a good medical explanation for a question, but there is enough known about the primary condition to know that it isn't effecting that problem.

    So while it is possible, and maybe even likely, that in your case there is some psychological factor outside of your conscious control that tells your bladder that this is a better place to void, it is significantly less likely that you will be able to turn that into any significant symptomatic improvement unless your disease process itself is thought to be more psychological, or have a significant psychosocial component.
    Last edited by bdb2004; 09-Dec-2010 at 03:37.

  9. #9

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    I don't mean this to sound rude - but can you translate that into english? I read it about 6 times and still don't really understand what you are saying. From what I get out of it you are saying the brain IS still able to control the muscles even with the nerves not working right. But that there is no hope of actually controlling it unless my incontinence is psychological and not the nerves/bladder? If that is what you are saying then what I was thinking was right and there would be some kind of hope still as long as it was like hypnosis or something to get around the conscious and tell the brain to work better for me.

    I was thinking something sorta like this...
    "Another way that hypnosis may work is that it redirects one's attention to something other than the pain. Still another way, is that hypnosis may help our mind to know that the pain is there, but not to feel it. Dr. Rockers also believes that patients can learn to relax so deeply that their pain is reduced, or they can learn to put their hand to sleep and then transfer that numbness to a painful body part, thereby decreasing pain. There are many other hypnotic suggestions that help reduce pain as well." The Role of Hypnosis for Pain Management

    but instead of 'pain' maybe make it like a tingle or something in another part of the body like a shoulder or leg to say I need to go to the bathroom. The only part I'm not sure about is if the nerves around the bladder can't tell if it's full or not then how would the brain know it was that time? Also how would it stop the trickle peeing. Maybe if the wording was right? Just a thought.

    ~ In case anyone is wondering why this is like a 'mission' for me (and to answer 'someones accusation') it has to do with my problem being really the only reminder or link to the 'past'. If I can ever overcome this then besides being able to only wear when I WANTED to it would also truly help separate a nightmare history from my new life now.

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