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Thread: Perfection is impossible

  1. #1

    Post Perfection is impossible

    I see that a lot of people on this forum are atheists. This is actually to be expected because when you get into some kinky stuff like we like, it's hard to stay on righteous and noble path. I will say that I am an atheist and I have come to make a point for one of the reasons why. The main reason why I am an atheist is even if God does exist, and if I were to KNOW it beyond a shadow of a doubt, I would still be an atheist, Why? Because the concept of perfection is impossible. Here's the way I see it. The question that screws everything up.

    Can God see into his on future and does he have free will?

    If God can see into the future than he can't have free will, all of his choices have been made and he's just "a puppet that can see the strings" to quote Dr. Manhattan from the watchman series.

    But if God has free will he can't see into the future because he hasn't made his choices yet.

    And it's because of the fact that I won't worship someone with a consciousness like me but just with more power that I will always be an atheist. But as an atheist I would like to end on this note, questioning the existence of God is the most trivial thing you can do.

    P.S

    This argument is not my own, I borrowed it from Scott Adam's book God's Debris.

    The reason why I'm posting this is that I've posted it on almost all forums that will allow it because I can. I don't mean to offend anyone and I want you all to know that whatever your religion, I respect fully.

  2. #2

    Default

    I am a catholic and I believe in the general guidelines that religion establishes. I however can think for myself and I must admit that your argument makes a great deal of sense.

  3. #3

    Default



    Quote Originally Posted by mchkeegan View Post
    I see that a lot of people on this forum are atheists. This is actually to be expected because when you get into some kinky stuff like we like, it's hard to stay on righteous and noble path.
    There is nothing wrong with having a kink, and there is certainly nothing righteous or noble about religion.

    But yeah, I fucking love Scott Adams. I have "the way of the weasel" and "stick to drawing comics, monkey brain". He's brilliant.

  4. #4
    June

    Default

    I have looked at religion from atheists, theists, and unbiased views, and realized that we just can't know for sure. There may be a God, and there may not. There is evidence supporting his existence, and there is evidence contradicting his existence. In my opinion, it makes just as much sense to say that a God does exist as to say a God does not. Neither side has enough credible, sensible proof.

    What really just made me be religously agnostic was the number of religions that exist. There are too many, and they all say that they are the one true religion. So there really is no way to know for sure, unless you have been around since the beginning of time.

    But, hey. That's just my take.

  5. #5

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    I have all of his business books (The Dilbert Princible, The Dilbert Future, the Joy of work). Dilbert gives you the business, journey to cubeville, escape from the cubicle police, dogberts top secret management book, and stick to drawing comics monkey brains. OWNED. No just kidding, how's way of the weasel I haven't read that one but heard it didn't sell to well.

  6. #6

    Default

    I'd like to expand on that with a piece from Evil Bible

    Specifically: Why I am Not a Christian


    “Free Will”, You Say?

    It is also written that I was given free will with which to choose if I will go to hell or not. How can you possibly deem something free when you must fear consequences? That completely conflicts with the definition of free. If I were to hold a gun to your head and say “you have free will to not give me your wallet, but if you attempt to defy me I will kill you.” Does it really feel as if you have a choice in the matter? Of course not. Free means to give or receive something with out an expectation of return. The whole free will concept is self defeating. Call it Circumstantial Will, for that is what it truly is.

    Despite this, I have still had the displeasure of debating with those Christians who accept hell as a rational and fair wrath of God. They defend Jehovah’s creation of hell with the opinion that those who are committed to hell go voluntary, as if it is a consequence rather then a punishment. That indeed, we as children of God, chose rather to be hell’s inmates then God’s disciples in heaven. It’s an interesting idea. However, you don’t have to hurt anyone to get into Hell. All it takes, according to Scripture, is knowing about Jesus and not accepting him as Savior. It doesn’t matter how virtuous you are, how much good you do, how happy an environment you create for others. Given this, the voluntary entry argument doesn’t make sense. The same argument could be used to justify the sending of Aryan opponents of Nazism to concentration camps: they voluntarily chose not to give homage to Hitler, so they chose to be interred. Why should we blame the Nazis for the inmates’ choice? Why should we blame God for the choice of the damned?

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by TeenageToddler View Post
    I have looked at religion from atheists, theists, and unbiased views, and realized that we just can't know for sure. There may be a God, and there may not. There is evidence supporting his existence, and there is evidence contradicting his existence. In my opinion, it makes just as much sense to say that a God does exist as to say a God does not. Neither side has enough credible, sensible proof.

    What really just made me be religously agnostic was the number of religions that exist. There are too many, and they all say that they are the one true religion. So there really is no way to know for sure, unless you have been around since the beginning of time.

    But, hey. That's just my take.
    Pretty much. The argument that no god has ever existed is just as baseless as the belief in one of the specific gods crafted by people. It's possible to disprove most of the "God theories" out there, but it's just as impossible to prove anything. By the time you know the answer, you're dead.

    It also depends on your definition of a god. Something without a conscience that created the start of the universe seems a lot more likely than an all-powerful, all-knowing, all-loving God.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by mchkeegan View Post
    I have all of his business books (The Dilbert Princible, The Dilbert Future, the Joy of work). Dilbert gives you the business, journey to cubeville, escape from the cubicle police, dogberts top secret management book, and stick to drawing comics monkey brains. OWNED. No just kidding, how's way of the weasel I haven't read that one but heard it didn't sell to well.
    It's really good. It didn't sell well because it's really negative, but I love it. People like hearing that their boss is an asshole, but not that they are assholes.

  9. #9

    Default

    That depends on what future you see.

    I read about this explanation once of how God could see the future.
    Take a film reel for instance: God could see it as a single reel of film, displaying every aspect of our live in one long strip, one frame of our lives at a time.
    That would mean we have no free will since choices would lead down the same strip.

    Now, say at every opportunity we had to make a decision, the film reel splits into two different reels, each one based on the individual choice we made. And then another choice in each of those splits the film reel again.

    In essence this becomes an upside-down tree (or a root system, if you think of it that way), showing each and every possible way we live our lives based on our decisions.
    If God saw the future this way, he could see the future but at times could not predict what exactly would happen.
    In many ways it's like the reference Dr. Manhattan used in Watchmen, referring to a diamond and how all facets of time are visible.
    Time isn't portrayed as linear in this way, you can view it from multiple perspectives and angles, thinking of it like this.

    Just throwing this thought out there.

  10. #10
    Ishav

    Default

    God is beyond time and has already made its choices and such.... meaning that God is creating the universe, flooding the world or whatever the metaphor may mean and expanding space all at the same moment.

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