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Thread: The Great Energy Crisis Debate

  1. #1
    Zeit

    Default The Great Energy Crisis Debate

    Welcome to the Great Energy Crisis Debate!

    This thread is a place to continue the debate on the current and future problems of population, energy needs/sources and pollution that will be affecting this generation and the next and so on. So to begin...

    I believe that it is the responsibility of this generation to become more aware of the situation the world is in when it comes down to natural resources and energy sources and all the side effects of them. Populations are expanding and power/resource needs are going to skyrocket exponentially. The least we need to do is become knowledgeable of this fact so that we can start thinking forward to some solutions to this problem.

    I'll add more as the discussion continues, debate on!

  2. #2

    Default

    One of my favorite articles on the topic:
    http://www.reason.com/news/show/116887.html

    Just think of it this way...currently, the world produces 13.5 TWh of energy. We need 23 in the next 50 years

  3. #3

    Default

    We will be screwed if we don't start to find/use alternative energy sources.

    Oh, oil companies have threatened to raise gas prices if the US government stops their tax breaks.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080401/...o/congress_oil

  4. #4

    Default

    Oil comp.s know people need gas, so they can rule there own energy empire.
    Converting to vegetable oil cars, hydro cars, and solar cars are great... but a vast majority of them cost big bucks.

    Hybrids are the easiest move to make.

    Also, and I would HATE this, but if all major road's speed limits were 30 mph, gas milleage would be way up! Sad benifit is that people would travel less to a bigger town and drivetimes will take a extreemly long time. Don't like the idea but it works!

  5. #5
    Darkfinn

    Default

    I'm gonna say this now... b/c not a lot of people realise it.

    Most folks say that the electric car is the future. This is not true. Electric automobiles take us down a road we don't want to be on.

    The power grid in America is taxxed enough as it is. It barely has enough power to keep us going. We remember the "rolling blackouts" in California several years back. What do you think is going to happen when thousands of people get home from work at 6:00 every day... turn on the lights, TV, computer, & plug their cars in to charge? It is going to be too much for the power grid to handle.

    To meet increased demand for electricity... power companies are going to have to build new plants... and guess who pays for that? That's right... the consumer does. It will get to the point where inner-city folk who don't even have cars are paying increased power costs b/c the people that have cars are plugging them in. As it is right now... if you don't have a car... you don't have to pay any car-related costs. Make cars part of the power grid... and everyone pays.

    Now for the thing that comes as a shock for a lot of folks.
    Two thirds of the electricity americans use comes from non-renewable energy sources like coal, oil, and natural gas.

    So someone please tell me how switching cars to electric is going to save anyone or the environment?

  6. #6

    Default

    Nuclear power is key. It's safe, stable, reliable, and most importantly, here. We need to build more of the new, more powerful 4th Generation reactors. This, combined with energy conservation efforts already underway, will help the US wean itself off foreign fuels. We wont totally do away with fossil fuel usage, but if we could just get our fuels from domestic, Mexican, and Canadian sources, we could increase our energy security. If we can make electricity cheap and clean, we can build more electric vehicles, which will drive down demand for oil even more.

  7. #7

    Default



    Quote Originally Posted by sparkmaster View Post
    Nuclear power is key. It's safe, stable, reliable, and most importantly, here. We need to build more of the new, more powerful 4th Generation reactors. This, combined with energy conservation efforts already underway, will help the US wean itself off foreign fuels. We wont totally do away with fossil fuel usage, but if we could just get our fuels from domestic, Mexican, and Canadian sources, we could increase our energy security. If we can make electricity cheap and clean, we can build more electric vehicles, which will drive down demand for oil even more.
    Actually, nuclear waste, but yes, we have a bunch of it. An infinite amount, since it is supposedly rewenable forever..

    I think Darkfinn is right about electricity. I've never thought it would help because our electricity still comes mostly from fossil fuels. But I think there is a solution, but it not be an overnight thing, it will take time..

    If we really want to lower the costs of electricity, we have to find other ways to make it besides fossil fuels. We already have that type of stuff in use now. Wind mills, solar energy, nuclear waste, but we need much more of it to really make a difference. We have to eliminate fossil fuels entirely, andi n order to do that, we have to make a hell of a lot of electricity some other way, in addition to finding a good alternate fuel.

    The problem with finding an alternate fuel, is the gas companies themselves.. Honestly, I don't think we are running low on oil. I know a guy who works on oil fields, and he claims that some of the ones down south are showing signs of refilling themselves. I can't be sure if that's true, but if it is, it makes me wonder whether our oil supply is really that low. Now I hear that the government is starting to ask the oil companies questions about the gas prices, as if they suspect something. Maybe they will find them doing something illegal, and stop their evil ways. But I won't hold my breath though.. The gas companies make hundreds of billions of dollars a year with the current prices. If the gas prices drop a dollar, then that loses millions of dollars for the gas companies.. If you made 300 BILLION dollars a year, would you want to give up 13 million a year? Of course not! If your a big company like that, you'd want to keep every dam cent you make! It's not just that you'll lose a few million either.. it's the long run thing that gets you. If you back off, and drop the price a dollar, it's only a matter of time before the people demand for more. They bitch, moan and complain until the oil companies are forced to drop the price again.. That means not only a loss of money, but also a loss of power and control in the energy monopoly. That's what I call it anyway.. They will fight to the death before they let that happen. Also, since oil is such a valuable resource, the government loses money trying to find a replacement for it.

    In order to solve the problem, we have to weed out the use of fossil fuels for gas. We have so many ways to produce electricity and fuel, such as: wind, solar, water, hydrogen, ethanol, bio diesel, and we should be taking advantage of that. We depend on oil way to much ,and what does oil really do for us? It causes wars, as well as contributes to the rising prices of everyday life. Plus, it will never generate the power we need forever.
    Last edited by Drosera; 03-Apr-2008 at 17:59.

  8. #8

    Default

    Nuclear power is not the answer.

    NATURAL is.

    In Canada we have many different types of 'power supply' which do not involve the use of fossil fuels or other fuels which are a danger to the environment.

    For instance...Canada (Nova Scotia to be exact) has one of just three tidal power plants in the entire world and the only one in the western hemisphere.

    Canada is # 2 in the world (after China) for hydro electricity production.

    And of course we have a lot of 'wind farms' too. In fact at least 3 new wind farms have been (or are being) built just in Nova Scotia as per news items over the last month.

    REUSABLE RESOURCES are always the best answer!

  9. #9
    Customizer

    Default



    Quote Originally Posted by Chromos View Post
    Actually, nuclear waste, but yes, we have a bunch of it. An infinite amount, since it is supposedly rewenable forever..

    I think Darkfinn is right about electricity. I've never thought it would help because our electricity still comes mostly from fossil fuels. But I think there is a solution, but it not be an overnight thing, it will take time..

    If we really want to lower the costs of electricity, we have to find other ways to make it besides fossil fuels. We already have that type of stuff in use now. Wind mills, solar energy, nuclear waste, but we need much more of it to really make a difference. We have to eliminate fossil fuels entirely, andi n order to do that, we have to make a hell of a lot of electricity some other way, in addition to finding a good alternate fuel.

    The problem with finding an alternate fuel, is the gas companies themselves.. Honestly, I don't think we are running low on oil. I know a guy who works on oil fields, and he claims that some of the ones down south are showing signs of refilling themselves. I can't be sure if that's true, but if it is, it makes me wonder whether our oil supply is really that low. Now I hear that the government is starting to ask the oil companies questions about the gas prices, as if they suspect something. Maybe they will find them doing something illegal, and stop their evil ways. But I won't hold my breath though.. The gas companies make hundreds of billions of dollars a year with the current prices. If the gas prices drop a dollar, then that loses millions of dollars for the gas companies.. If you made 300 BILLION dollars a year, would you want to give up 13 million a year? Of course not! If your a big company like that, you'd want to keep every dam cent you make! It's not just that you'll lose a few million either.. it's the long run thing that gets you. If you back off, and drop the price a dollar, it's only a matter of time before the people demand for more. They bitch, moan and complain until the oil companies are forced to drop the price again.. That means not only a loss of money, but also a loss of power and control in the energy monopoly. That's what I call it anyway.. They will fight to the death before they let that happen.

    Also, since oil is such a valuable resource, the government loses money trying to find a replacement for it. We have taken baby steps with hybrids, hydrogen, and E 85, but they don't make enough to turn a profit equal to oil. That won't ever happen until the gas prices drop, people start driving hydrogen and ethanol fueled cars, and we start producing alternate energy in mass numbers. :2cents:
    The oil supply is not "low" at all. Companies will only pump and mine for oil if it costs less to obtain. Deeper oil deposits are not worth the time and money to dig down to because they will cost more to get than it will be sold for.

    Oil prices? The supply is purposefully restricted. How? Oil companies don't bother rebuilding infrastructure of processing plants (ex: afer Hurricane Katrina) because there is no profit incentive. Oil oligopolies can control the price by controlling the quantity supplied.

    In this case, the lower the quanity supplied means companies can charge higher prices because the quantity demanded will not diminish.

    I'll support Darkfinn if someone claims ethanol fuel in the grain belt states is sustainable and cost-effective for consumers.

    Nuclear power clean? Nah, go do a Google search for "Yucca Mountain."

  10. #10

    Default

    It seems everybody here is way way underestimating the problem by looking at the now.
    I urge everybody to read my first post up:

    We make 13.5 TWh of energy. We're going to need about double that by 2050. Any suggestions? Every kind of energy will have to be a part of the solution, including a heavy dependence on nuclear or a radical approach to solar (imagine areas 1000 sq. miles big with just solar panels)

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