Non-DL Friend Says Disposables are Wasteful

quietcutie · Sep 23, 2018

he/she is probably referring to the plastic, as plastic is a bit of a nuisance on our earth and it takes a long time for plastic to naturally biodegrade

Slomo · Sep 24, 2018

Iraina said:
Not.

That’s stretching “eventually” to include “after having crumbled to tiny particles that eventually find their way into the food chain and cause god knows how many problems first”.

Plastics like pvc are not made from oil alone. Vinyl contains chlorine and doesn’t break down easily.

From Wikipedia:

So until plastic waste is managed in a way that doesn’t allow the microplastics to enter the biosphere as happens when dumping disposabe diapers in landfills, it is not[/] a good idea to throw them in the trash.

I hope that they will ban using plastics in disposables. There is no justification for having plastics in disposable diapers. It is perfectly possible to produce disposable diapers that are exactly like the ones today, but just without waterproofing.
The only reason they exist is because marketing targets people’s laziness, so that they don’t need to use separate waterproof pants.

It comes down to throwing your car away every time you’re refilling the petrol [emoji35]

Ok, you're against putting diapers in the ground. So exactly what alternative to disposing of disposables are you suggesting (which will be even more environmentally friendly)?

Ps. ALL disposable are made from plastics. Even those "cloth like" disposables are actually plastic. So you are literally say ALL disposabls should be banned. And for what, reusable cloth that is no better for the environment? You are making absolutely no sense here.

xpluswearer · Sep 24, 2018

Slomo said:
Ok, you're against putting diapers in the ground. So exactly what alternative to disposing of disposables are you suggesting (which will be even more environmentally friendly)?

Ps. ALL disposable are made from plastics. Even those "cloth like" disposables are actually plastic. So you are literally say ALL disposabls should be banned. And for what, reusable cloth that is no better for the environment? You are making absolutely no sense here.

Here is a god awful idea just refold them and put them back on another person on and on and on for ever.
Or just burn them for fuel all you will have left is ash to dispose of not the actual plastic.

bambinod · Sep 24, 2018

Biggles said:
bambinod said:

Oil's a renewable resource, it just takes longer to renew Now something like nuclear power... THAT'S truly not renewable!

Click to expand...

Actually Nuclear is the ultimate renewable. The sun is a huge fusion reactor there for solar pwr, wind, even oil are all results of fusion energy heating the earth. I actually believe thorium is our best intermediate solution for clean energy and the only base load option that will actually reverse carbon levels. Until such time we have fusion online.

Well there's a lot of room for debate on this topic, but suffice to say it can beep you busy on google OR youtube for quite some time. The ratio of supporters to critics is about 10:1, but sadly the critics are all agreeing on the same list of problems that the supporters tend to either ignore or outright deny.

- TH isn't fissile, but it IS fertile. You never get energy from Thorium. You use thorium to make fissile materials (usually uranium) that IS fissile, and that's where your energy comes from. So the "you can't build a bomb from thorium" is correct, but you CAN build a bomb using a thorium reactor. This addresses the "nuclear non-prolifieration" angle of TH supporters.

- TH doesn't produce anywhere near as much of the dangerous wastes that U does, but it produces different waste products, which vary greatly depending on the type of reactor in use. You either get a similar amount of other equally dangerous and long-lived waste, OR you have to go through a more expensive reprocessing process when refueling, either of which ends up making TH a much more expensive reactor to run in the long-run. So you can have about-as-cheap-as or cleaner-than, but not both. It's still better than break-even, but U is a lot cheaper per KWH than TH, regardless of how you do it. This addresses the "less waste" and "cheaper" angles of the TH supporters. They like to say "it's about as cheap!" (points to reactor A), "and it's clean!" (points to reactor B). :chin:

It's just not practical right now to try it. Due to the large scale required to make it viable, it requires government-level support. And right now U reactors are cheaper and have already paid off their overhead of research costs, which not only makes it less competitive, but also greatly reduces startup costs of a new reactor. India's been trying to make TH viable for decades and still hasn't managed it. PU/U reactors also got a lot of their R&D done by the military because nukes, and that was a huge help. India will probably be the ones to break into the business though, and when U reactor prices have gone up enough, (due to waste storage costs and decreasing availability of U) TH will start to move into the market.

It's a lot like the difference between gas and electric cars. Batteries and composites were the big hold-up, but those two key technologies got most of their expensive R&D taken care of by other industries, wiping out most of the startup costs and leaving mostly just design issues to sort out. The first models to hit the market were expensive, but tolerable, and that got them the springboard they needed. TH research is TH research, there's no one else working on aspects of it that you can take advantage of to speed up and cut startup costs an, so it's going to go really slow. Wait for India to finish writing the book on TH. Probably won't happen in MY lifetime though.

Slomo · Sep 27, 2018

xpluswearer said:
Here is a god awful idea just refold them and put them back on another person on and on and on for ever.
Or just burn them for fuel all you will have left is ash to dispose of not the actual plastic.

No way! Burning a used diaper will mean dealing with way more than ash. It will put all of that CO2 into the atmosphere. That's WAY worse than putting it back into the ground!

ColecoVision · Sep 28, 2018

Again, some fringe group people who wears diapers for fun are just a tiny drop in the bucket in that regard. Where I live, all my trash gets burned in an incinerator anyways. I can think of a few pretty crazy things that got torched there in the last while from my household alone. My broken VCR, a bicycle tire, dead stereo speakers, an entire pool cover. Our old pool cover alone probably had enough plastic to make a hundred diapers. Diapers barely contribute at all.

Argent · Sep 28, 2018

I think our waste goes into dry burial, if I understand correctly it means it doesn’t break down very easily so diapees May remain intact complete with the trapped water for a very longtime.

Where possible it seems better to me to compost the fluff pulp/SAP but I wish I knew what to do with the plastic backing (with top layer) to get it recycled.

Slomo · Sep 28, 2018

ColecoVision said:
Again, some fringe group people who wears diapers for fun are just a tiny drop in the bucket in that regard. Where I live, all my trash gets burned in an incinerator anyways. I can think of a few pretty crazy things that got torched there in the last while from my household alone. My broken VCR, a bicycle tire, dead stereo speakers, an entire pool cover. Our old pool cover alone probably had enough plastic to make a hundred diapers. Diapers barely contribute at all.

Doh, now THAT'S a waste. Not to mention making used diapers a true environmental hazard.

xpluswearer · Sep 28, 2018

Slomo said:
No way! Burning a used diaper will mean dealing with way more than ash. It will put all of that CO2 into the atmosphere. That's WAY worse than putting it back into the ground!

Actually nature produces more hazardous chemicals than we will ever produce. Burning off trash is far more environmental friendly there are scrubbers on the smokestacks now that virtually eliminate the toxins from being emitted into the air. besides you cannot stop people themselves from burning their own trash. Being a family member whom has helped out in my now dead grandfathers scrap business our trash was burnt and we loaded the ash and tin cans into the trunks of cars and into back of vans as they are being crushed and that waste is then carted off to the shredder and believe you and me at those facilities virtually everything is shipped back to processors to make new products. Believe me when I tell you that volcanic and quake activity is far more damaging than personal and industrial waste burning. When they did that study in the late 80's on the ozone that was right after mount pinatubo blew its top near Manilla. Also the quakes in the ring of fire too. and the hole was found that hole was not caused by us humans rest da mind okay.

Luckyfish · Sep 28, 2018

Loved your post Trevor. Sums it up nicely.

Slomo · Sep 28, 2018

xpluswearer said:
Actually nature produces more hazardous chemicals than we will ever produce. Burning off trash is far more environmental friendly there are scrubbers on the smokestacks now that virtually eliminate the toxins from being emitted into the air. besides you cannot stop people themselves from burning their own trash. Being a family member whom has helped out in my now dead grandfathers scrap business our trash was burnt and we loaded the ash and tin cans into the trunks of cars and into back of vans as they are being crushed and that waste is then carted off to the shredder and believe you and me at those facilities virtually everything is shipped back to processors to make new products. Believe me when I tell you that volcanic and quake activity is far more damaging than personal and industrial waste burning. When they did that study in the late 80's on the ozone that was right after mount pinatubo blew its top near Manilla. Also the quakes in the ring of fire too. and the hole was found that hole was not caused by us humans rest da mind okay.

The evidence proves otherwise. Our CO2 levels are higher now that any time since before the dinosaurs. Back to when the earth had still yet to stabalize the environment. Not even all the volcanic eruptions, natural forest fires, and natural disasters since then have ever been able to produce as much as we have in the last 100 years.

Individually, one person burning their trash, driving a car, and even smoking doesn't affect the environment. Multiply that miniscule effect by over 7 billion people and you start to realize we have been actively terraforming our planet (for the worst) this whole time. Once you understand that, then your also realize that each one of us has to become at least carbon neutral. Disposable diapers included, but hopefully never burned.

ChocChip · Sep 28, 2018

While it would be a difficult sell for everyone (babies and adults) to go back to cloth nappies now, I suspect the solution to the disposables issue will eventually come from super-absorbent fabrics technology. There will probably one day be what looks from the outside like regular underwear, but can contain multiple full bladder releases. Who knows, the toilet itself may become almost obsolete

xpluswearer · Sep 28, 2018

ChocChip said:
While it would be a difficult sell for everyone (babies and adults) to go back to cloth nappies now, I suspect the solution to the disposables issue will eventually come from super-absorbent fabrics technology. There will probably one day be what looks from the outside like regular underwear, but can contain multiple full bladder releases. Who knows, the toilet itself may become almost obsolete

no matter the cloth or cloth like nonsense none of them are waterproof like plastic backed diapers that is why you need plastic diaper covers I challenge anyone to just wear a cotton cloth diaper or a cloth backed disposable and have your clothes or mattresses or seats in cars be dry I guarantee you will NOT come back dry on the outside of the confines of the cloth/clothlike disposable diaper.

- - - Updated - - -

Slomo said:
The evidence proves otherwise. Our CO2 levels are higher now that any time since before the dinosaurs. Back to when the earth had still yet to stabalize the environment. Not even all the volcanic eruptions, natural forest fires, and natural disasters since then have ever been able to produce as much as we have in the last 100 years.

Individually, one person burning their trash, driving a car, and even smoking doesn't affect the environment. Multiply that miniscule effect by over 7 billion people and you start to realize we have been actively terraforming our planet (for the worst) this whole time. Once you understand that, then your also realize that each one of us has to become at least carbon neutral. Disposable diapers included, but hopefully never burned.

Earth has cycles warn cycles and cold cycles and earth will clean itself up eventually the earth will reclaim everything we have made including us there will be a day when the earth will collapse in on itself and everything will be destroyed and reclaimed. It will be found one day that the efforts to be environmentally friendly will have more harmful effects than using fossil fuels and burning trash. and plastic backed diapers.. gotta love dialogue

WABX · Sep 28, 2018

Just back in the 70's they thought that we were headed back in the ice age but not so.

Lestat · Sep 28, 2018

Some people buy plastic back/cloth like diapers for other things. When I was growing Pot. I would the dry part of the diaper and mix it in the soil so it would hold more water longer. which help in California dry climet.

Here another thing. People forget Some animals like Cows Pollute more than the cars on the road. So area like India where Cows are worshipped has the most pollution.

Argent · Oct 1, 2018

ChocChip said:
While it would be a difficult sell for everyone (babies and adults) to go back to cloth nappies now, I suspect the solution to the disposables issue will eventually come from super-absorbent fabrics technology. There will probably one day be what looks from the outside like regular underwear, but can contain multiple full bladder releases. Who knows, the toilet itself may become almost obsolete

Please not anytime soon! I love my nappies to look and feel like nappies.

Give me the option of recycling the soft plastic shell and not part of my nappies (while at home) need wind up in landfill again!

Slomo · Oct 1, 2018

xpluswearer said:
no matter the cloth or cloth like nonsense none of them are waterproof like plastic backed diapers that is why you need plastic diaper covers I challenge anyone to just wear a cotton cloth diaper or a cloth backed disposable and have your clothes or mattresses or seats in cars be dry I guarantee you will NOT come back dry on the outside of the confines of the cloth/clothlike disposable diaper.

- - - Updated - - -

Earth has cycles warn cycles and cold cycles and earth will clean itself up eventually the earth will reclaim everything we have made including us there will be a day when the earth will collapse in on itself and everything will be destroyed and reclaimed. It will be found one day that the efforts to be environmentally friendly will have more harmful effects than using fossil fuels and burning trash. and plastic backed diapers.. gotta love dialogue

Yes the Earth has cycles, except our climate changing right now is not part of a cycle. And yes, we are due for another mini ice age, just as we are due for the poles to shift again. On geological scales, "imminent" can mean hundreds of years- give or take a thousand. And I also find it incredibly hard to believe you say conservation does more harm that the active terraforming we are doing right now. I'm very curious, how did you come to the conclusion that it's better to be wasteful by burning diapers and trash?

xpluswearer · Oct 1, 2018

Slomo said:
Yes the Earth has cycles, except our climate changing right now is not part of a cycle. And yes, we are due for another mini ice age, just as we are due for the poles to shift again. On geological scales, "imminent" can mean hundreds of years- give or take a thousand. And I also find it incredibly hard to believe you say conservation does more harm that the active terraforming we are doing right now. I'm very curious, how did you come to the conclusion that it's better to be wasteful by burning diapers and trash?

Yes conservation is doing more harm than good. Look at one thing the toilet. the 1.6 gallon per flush toilet is far inferior to the pushing power of the 5 gallon per flush toilet if you have larger bowel movements you will not get them to flush with those 1.6 gallon toilets. Furthermore the low flow shower heads are not getting all the soap scum off your body I can guarantee each and every one of you will have a layer of what is called bio film which is soap scum and body filth still on your skin. the front load washers that are energy star well you have the older agitator washers that wash in 30 minutes flat and these new washers wash in 55 minutes or more! you call that efficient that is wasteful. Furthermore the new detergents are not getting clothes properly clean and sanitary also. The new chemicals are just weak. Also look at the hybrid cars in the long run it costs more to run a hybrid car.
Oh yes its far smarter to burn trash as with burning trash can be used for power, heat and other things that will save space in landfills by the way smoke stacks are fitted with scrubbers to grab the toxins from the burning process.
Do not know if you know or not that China is not taking anymore of the US trash to put thru recycling plants and the US plants are over taxed now with product that a good majority is being diverted into landfills so conservation or recycling efforts are worthless.
We will never run out of oil, water, trees and coal not in 2 million generations the earth will outlive all of us the earth has far more resilience and power than all of us can realize. I am not worried one iota nor should you be either.

Crinklebutt · Oct 1, 2018

xpluswearer said:
Yes conservation is doing more harm than good. Look at one thing the toilet. the 1.6 gallon per flush toilet is far inferior to the pushing power of the 5 gallon per flush toilet if you have larger bowel movements you will not get them to flush with those 1.6 gallon toilets. Furthermore the low flow shower heads are not getting all the soap scum off your body I can guarantee each and every one of you will have a layer of what is called bio film which is soap scum and body filth still on your skin. the front load washers that are energy star well you have the older agitator washers that wash in 30 minutes flat and these new washers wash in 55 minutes or more! you call that efficient that is wasteful. Furthermore the new detergents are not getting clothes properly clean and sanitary also. The new chemicals are just weak. Also look at the hybrid cars in the long run it costs more to run a hybrid car.
Oh yes its far smarter to burn trash as with burning trash can be used for power, heat and other things that will save space in landfills by the way smoke stacks are fitted with scrubbers to grab the toxins from the burning process.
Do not know if you know or not that China is not taking anymore of the US trash to put thru recycling plants and the US plants are over taxed now with product that a good majority is being diverted into landfills so conservation or recycling efforts are worthless.
We will never run out of oil, water, trees and coal not in 2 million generations the earth will outlive all of us the earth has far more resilience and power than all of us can realize. I am not worried one iota nor should you be either.

those are quite some claims, care to back any of them up with sources, and "do your own research" is NOT a source. YOU make the claims, YOU back them up

Slomo · Oct 1, 2018

xpluswearer said:
Yes conservation is doing more harm than good. Look at one thing the toilet. the 1.6 gallon per flush toilet is far inferior to the pushing power of the 5 gallon per flush toilet if you have larger bowel movements you will not get them to flush with those 1.6 gallon toilets. Furthermore the low flow shower heads are not getting all the soap scum off your body I can guarantee each and every one of you will have a layer of what is called bio film which is soap scum and body filth still on your skin. the front load washers that are energy star well you have the older agitator washers that wash in 30 minutes flat and these new washers wash in 55 minutes or more! you call that efficient that is wasteful. Furthermore the new detergents are not getting clothes properly clean and sanitary also. The new chemicals are just weak. Also look at the hybrid cars in the long run it costs more to run a hybrid car.
Oh yes its far smarter to burn trash as with burning trash can be used for power, heat and other things that will save space in landfills by the way smoke stacks are fitted with scrubbers to grab the toxins from the burning process.
Do not know if you know or not that China is not taking anymore of the US trash to put thru recycling plants and the US plants are over taxed now with product that a good majority is being diverted into landfills so conservation or recycling efforts are worthless.
We will never run out of oil, water, trees and coal not in 2 million generations the earth will outlive all of us the earth has far more resilience and power than all of us can realize. I am not worried one iota nor should you be either.

These claims are way off, and only look at half the problem. So what if some soap residue is left on your skin or clothes. That isn't going to affect the environment anywhere near as using more soap and rinsing it off better. What will affect the environment is using up all the fresh water around us. I'd be less concerned about soap residue, and more concerned about our rapidly dwindling underground water reservoir under the west coast (which is affected the most by crop irrigation, and is also running out faster than can be replenished).

And no, hybrids do not cost more in the long run. Once about 10-20 years ago it was nearly a wash. The added cost to manufacturer a hybrid was equally offset by gas costs saved- except added cost has never hurt the environment like burning gas does, so mire fuel efficient has always been better for environmental conservation even if it hasn't been for your wallet. Hybrids have also come a long way to costing less too. My 2016 Rav4 hybrid cost me $30k. Similar suvs cost about $20-25k. Oh, and I save about $25 per week in gas- that's per week. In 10 years that will be a $13k savings. Well below the total cost I'd pay for a non hybrid. AND since I'm burning half the fuel I used to in my old Jeep, I'm doing my conservation part by a lot- while also saving money.

As for the burning of diapers and trash. Show me what power company uses trash to power a turbine, heck most don't even want to use coal anymore due to the dwindling supply and higher cost. Can and do are two different things too, so can means nothing one way or the either if you don't do it anyways.

And wow, your "never run out of oil" claim is WAY off. This is well reported, and we are using it up so much faster than it can be regenerated. Even oil experts agree the age of "easy oil" has been over for decades. We've had to develop fracking and deep ocean drilling just to get at the more difficult to get oil. And guess what, there isn't an expert alive who doesn't agree syria, iraq, and other oil nations absolutely are running out.

Please stop spitting out your claims like they are the truth. You misinformation is not wanted, nkr does it help anyone. Do a little research before you make a clain, and when necessary or asked for then make sure to include those citations. (Of which we are asking for now).

Non-DL Friend Says Disposables are Wasteful

Bed wetter.