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Thread: LGBTQ and Pronouns

  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by OmiOMy View Post
    What's disrespectful is the blatant transphobia running around in here, not a blasted figure of speech.
    It was a pun my dude.

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by ElvishWilderness View Post
    Gravity is a "theory" too, do you also refuse to accept that NeverKnow? Try disrespecting my child in my presence, and it will not go well for you. Her doctor, psychiatrist, counselor, and social work ALL agree she is a girl. You don't get to determine she isn't.
    No, I acknowledge gravity. But there are differences. For one thing, the theory of gravity is empirically robust; there is no empirically robust theory of gender. Moreover, the theory of gravity coins the term "gravity" and thereby posits the existence of something which does explanatory work, whereas popular transgender theory is purporting to provide an account not of new theoretical postulates but of an old phenomenon. It's thus revisionary of and accountable to features of ordinary discourse in a way that real scientific theories are not.



    Quote Originally Posted by OmiOMy View Post
    Refusing to use someone's pronouns when you know what they are is intentional misgendering, and is disrespectful. It's that simple.
    As I said, I'll use anyone's legal name in the place of their preferred pronouns. My understanding is that "misgendering" involves using pronouns other than those preferred; I did not say that I'd do that. My reason is not that I think there's any special reason to defer to this neologism, but just because my aim is not to cause offense where I need not, and on this precise point, I need not.

    However, if what is being demanded is that I positively use people's preferred pronouns, then sorry, no one is entitled to coerce speech, and I should say that the flat rejection of compromise is the greater insult.

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by NeverKnow View Post
    As I said, I'll use anyone's legal name in the place of their preferred pronouns. My understanding is that "misgendering" involves using pronouns other than those preferred; I did not say that I'd do that. My reason is not that I think there's any special reason to defer to this neologism, but just because my aim is not to cause offense where I need not, and on this precise point, I need not.

    However, if what is being demanded is that I positively use people's preferred pronouns, then sorry, no one is entitled to coerce speech, and I should say that the flat rejection of compromise is the greater insult.
    You may want to revisit your policies on that. Besides the fact that such could quickly become grammatically awkward, changing one's legal name is not a trivial matter. I have not yet changed mine, for various reasons, but am certainly eager to do so. Nobody in my daily life calls me by my legal name and in fact it would seem quite strange to do so; it very clearly does not match my presentation.

    Of course, strictly speaking you are within your rights to choose to address me by my legal name; I can't coerce you to be more respectful toward me by calling me as I wish to be called. But by the same reasoning, I am within my rights to address you as "Buttface", and you cannot coerce me to address you by any more respectful terms than that. Am I wrong?

  4. #44

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    Being a "transwoman" myself. And having lived as a woman for the last 23 years. I think I can speak with some authority here. Its not cool when you address someone as "sir" when she's standing there in a skirt with a C cup bust line.
    Also. Yes I've known a couple of "genderfluid" persons over the last two decades. And yes. It can be a bit of a Hassel at first, coming to grips with the constantly changing gender identity of such people. But vary quickly you just learn to do one of two things.
    A. Take your que from how that person is presenting on any given day. (Its a bit like talking to a dragking/queen. If he is presenting male... Call him "him". If she is presenting female then address her as "her".)
    B. If you still have a question... Ask.

    - - - Updated - - -

    You should be polite about it thought.
    Most gender nonconforming people are well aware of the confusion they can bring tho the table. And get used to it. As long as you don't make a prediction over insulting them.

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by ESPF View Post
    You should be polite about it thought.
    Most gender nonconforming people are well aware of the confusion they can bring tho the table. And get used to it. As long as you don't make a prediction over insulting them.
    Why you guys/gals gotta be so confuzzling, eh?

    I've been thinking about it and the pronoun issue must be about as annoying as when people insist that I MUST have some kind of sexual attraction. I don't. And I've tried every way I can think of to explain it to people and most of them just don't get it at all. Been told so many times to 'see a doctor' or that 'you must be so unhappy'. *scratches head* And I can't for the life of me figure out why people think if you have no sex drive that you would be unhappy not having a sexual relationship. The opposite would be true, if I was forced to do something like that, I would probably just want to go die somewhere.

    It's literally that bad in my mind. Everyone else in the world seems to be like "Oh, it's no big deal. We hookup with people all the time." And I'm just like "BUT YOU DON'T EVEN LOVE THEM." And they're like "Eh. Whatever." Blows my mind. XD I can't imagine just 'hooking up' with someone because you think they have a nice face. O_O (Honestly I gotta stop here because it's kind of distressing to me. I'm pretty sure I'm a nutcase though.)

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by CuddleWoozle View Post
    Why you guys/gals gotta be so confuzzling, eh?

    I've been thinking about it and the pronoun issue must be about as annoying as when people insist that I MUST have some kind of sexual attraction. I don't. And I've tried every way I can think of to explain it to people and most of them just don't get it at all. Been told so many times to 'see a doctor' or that 'you must be so unhappy'. *scratches head* And I can't for the life of me figure out why people think if you have no sex drive that you would be unhappy not having a sexual relationship. The opposite would be true, if I was forced to do something like that, I would probably just want to go die somewhere.

    It's literally that bad in my mind. Everyone else in the world seems to be like "Oh, it's no big deal. We hookup with people all the time." And I'm just like "BUT YOU DON'T EVEN LOVE THEM." And they're like "Eh. Whatever." Blows my mind. XD I can't imagine just 'hooking up' with someone because you think they have a nice face. O_O (Honestly I gotta stop here because it's kind of distressing to me. I'm pretty sure I'm a nutcase though.)
    I think the issue in this situation is that for most of humankind, sex is, well, a pretty deal. It's something they're hardwired to do, as normal as eating and drinking, so when presented with the fact that some people do not experience sexual attraction, it blows their minds that these people are missing what they would consider a core aspect of life. That's where the ''you must be so unhappy'' comments come from, I would say. But they don't quite understand that you can't exactly what miss what you don't desire in the first place.

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphyre View Post
    You may want to revisit your policies on that. Besides the fact that such could quickly become grammatically awkward, changing one's legal name is not a trivial matter. I have not yet changed mine, for various reasons, but am certainly eager to do so. Nobody in my daily life calls me by my legal name and in fact it would seem quite strange to do so; it very clearly does not match my presentation.
    I should have said proper name rather than legal name. I don't mean that I'll check people's driver's licenses before I address them. (My only point is that I don't mind calling Caitlyn Jenner "Caitlyn". I do mind being made to speak in ways that imply a false theory of gender.)



    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphyre View Post
    Of course, strictly speaking you are within your rights to choose to address me by my legal name; I can't coerce you to be more respectful toward me by calling me as I wish to be called. But by the same reasoning, I am within my rights to address you as "Buttface", and you cannot coerce me to address you by any more respectful terms than that. Am I wrong?
    Yeah, I didn't mean that I would "deadname" rather than "misgender", just that I'll use a proper name rather than pronouns. I regard that as a pretty reasonable compromise.

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