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Thread: I Don't Think White People Will Ever Understand Racism (And That's Not A Bad Thing)

  1. #1

    Unhappy I Don't Think White People Will Ever Understand Racism (And That's Not A Bad Thing)

    CULTURAL APPROPRIATION was a big thing when Kim Kardashian Decided to get her hair in box braids and cornrows a little while back. And before, I thought that the idea of a race wanting to own a style was stupid, and that anyone can wear whatever they want. I thought cultural appropriation was not a thing, and it was some dumb excuse for one race to hate another. But earlier today I fell down this hole on youtube, where there were so many stories of African American little girls getting suspended from school because of their hairstyles, and black women getting fired because of their hair, and even Sarah Baartman, who was put on display as a freak for having "unusually large" breasts and butt and sold into a circus, but now having a big butt and big boobs is a must.

    Now, with so much going on in the news, it's really hard to ignore the extremes that people went to to oppress people way back in history, and I know that people of this generation are not responsible for what happened in the past. But that doesn't give certain people the right to say that appropriation just isn't a problem. And I know I'm using black and white people as an example, but its the only group I can relate to.

    This may sound cheesy, but I know what it's like to feel like you have to defend your culture. Whether it be music, style, or just general appearance. And I think the only reason certain people get so defensive about using things they claim their culture invented is because they can't let go of the past, and how screwed up it was for something to disrespect their heritage. And the fact that those people who took what you loved and beat it senseless, have the audacity to use it as their own just hurts a lot of people.

    Again, Im going to use black and white people as an example because it's the only people I can relate to.

    For example, dreadlocks. Zac Efron had started to wear them, and people were furious with him for doing so. And every time I looked at a comment someone made defending him, they went on to say that dreadlocks were never invented by anyone, and no one person owns the style, and then saying "you should never be able to embrace things of white culture," but the problem isn't who invented it, or what people do and don't own. The problem is that black people who wear dreadlocks look dirty and unprofessional on a black person, but empowering and beautiful on a white person. And black people know that not every single white person that has ever existed has criticized a black person for wearing dreads.

    And honest to god, I really don't care that Kim K or Katy Perry wore braids, and Zac Efron had dreadlocks. It's just the idea that someone's cultural identity that had to be defended for so long can go *poof* in an instant because someone else isn't responsible for them being wronged.

    I don't know, it's just seems like white people will always be born better off than black people, and will never get to experience real discrimination. And I'm not saying that just because your white you were born rich, I mean statistically, white/european people are the wealthiest amongst their entire population than others.

    There seems like there's no way to solve this sort of problem. Somepeople will always feel insulted, and others will never be able to understand why. There's no middle ground, and you can't make it so that no one can do something that their race didn't "invent" because that's not the solution. And censoring people so that they can't have an opinion isn't a solution either.

    I think that some people need to learn to forgive other people for what their ancestors did in the past, and others need to take a REALLY long and hard look at why people feel the way they do about certain things. So I guess being misinformed is the real issue here.

    But I swear I'm not an SJW, and I don't go around hating people for embracing other cultures. I loved Kim K's hair when she got it braided, and anyone else who likes and wants to try and wear African American culture is welcome to. Just be ready for someone else not to approve.

    Here's the Wiki Page about Sarah Baartman if you're interested.

    This was longer than I expected. Whooooooooooops.

    I hope this doesn't get moderated, I put like 40 minutes into typing this.

  2. #2

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    The thing is some one somewhere is going to get offended for one reason or another.
    Some one somewhere is going to judge you based on there beliefs.
    Some one some where is going to make a what they think is funny comment and someone is going to take exception to it.

    The thing is how long while it take "society" to let go and move on.

    IMO (Being a white male) any thing I say or do anymore is "Racist".

    Have I been discriminated against?

    Yes.

    I have been publicly shames for Being fat, Being uncoordinated and thus not Athletically gifted, Talking like a hayseed hick, Being a NURD!

    I lived on the Hopi Indian reservation and thus inside the Navajo Reservation.
    I was disrespected on several occasions by Navajo men and women for being white in there area. Yes it "hurts", but I still went about my business and yes I then judged them for their actions.

    I will say that I do get tired of hearing the "oppression card" played.

    I just today went through the next step to dissolving a PT* organization at my kids school. The reason is very few of the parents would help with any activity. There wound up being 3 people running everything and 5 at most people helping all year long. Two of the three people are moving on because there kids are no longer in the elementary level and that left just me. I am in no way capable or willing to do the whole thing on my own.

    The main reason that was given is the community make up is "lower income/oppressed individuals".

    My eldest graduated form WSUV and the thing that mad me so MAD during the commencements (so people from this area) was that the program had a "hell of a lot" of Women, Latino, Ukraine and Asian people on it. The valedictorian and student body president was black. The whole even was being televised in two Asian contraries so members of two student villages could see them graduate.
    He whole thing was I did not see anyone holding guns to there heads or blocking there way. So IMO get off your ass and do something if there is a will there is a way and the only one oppressing the oppressed (IN this country ) is them selves.

    I can go on but I have probably said to much already.

  3. #3

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    1. Cultural Appropriation is not a thing, indeed it is fictional and used quite a lot as an excuse to use hate against other people, anyone remember the trolls that tried to slam a young girl for wearing a Japanese Kimono? Also schools and places of work generally have rules regarding hair style, in some places it is OK while in others it is not. Schools are espiecally since even here in England you can be suspended for having your hair cut too short or even for having tram lines.

    2. People are oppressed daily, just look at South Africa and their current attempts are wiping out White Farmers? Or the Slave trade that is still going on when we are trying to make attempts of eliminating it.

    3. Yep, people exploring other cultures do indeed hurt people, espiecally those who are too xenophobic to want people to explore and be enlightened by cultures that may not necessarily be their own.

    That is all I currently have time to reply to at the moment since I do have work in the morning but really this debate could go on forever, but white people like myself certainly so understand and know what racism is like, and all races are guilty of it and victims of it, doesn't matter if you are white, black or asian or any other number of races.

  4. #4

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    Hey, I'm all about equality, and I can straight up say I don't understand the racism that black people went through, the struggles they've had to endure or the things they've had to overcome in the past. Being a transgendered person I can understand the want to just be treated equally without people making fun of the way I live, or trying to use it as some statement or whatever, so I can understand why people of colour get upset when white people insensitively explore the culture of coloured people.

    HOWEVER. I've also been told time and time again that quote "It's impossible to be racist to a white person" or "You can only be racist to a black person" (I.e. not only do white people not count but apparently you can't be racist to asians, mexicans, so on and so forth.) Another thing that bothers me is any time a white person with good intentions tries to learn more about the culture of black people they seem to immediately get called a racist regardless of their intentions. Don't get me wrong some people are just racist assholes and it's okay to dislike those people, However some people (Like myself) would like to know what we can do as people who are not of colour, to better be inclusive and understanding of the culture so we don't inadvertently make some statement that comes across as racist or insulting. I've tried before to explore the culture with various friends I've had that were of colour (By the way I don't care what colour your skin is, everyone is just human to me) But any time I say something like "Hey I'd like to ask a question about something about your culture if you don't mind answering it?" I usually get "That makes you racist for asking" in return. That's not really fair imo.

    While I've not directly read OP's post and only skimmed it briefly (Will read it more in depth later when I have the actual time to do so so that I can contribute in a more productive way) I'd like to take the moment I do have now to adress that, not all white people are bad, we're not all out to get people who aren't white, and sometimes things that we do or say are actually us trying to understand and not be racist, it may seem at the time that saying something like (And this is a real question I've had which finally got answered by someone for me recently) "Why do black people eat mac and cheese on holidays?" comes across as me being racist as fuck, I was just genuinely curious as it's something that I had noticed only that specific group of people did, (For the most part) and had it been a different group of people (Say, people in a specific region, all people regardless of colour or race) my question would have changed to "Why do people from _____ do/eat/wear _____ on holidays?" Genuine curiosity and wanting to understand isn't racism and I feel like as a society right now we're not in a place to have true understanding between all cultures, be it regionally or ethnically, or religiously. It's something I think as a civilization we need to work on, because honestly asking questions because you're genuinely curious shouldn't be considered racist, and it's something I've noticed far too much to let it go, and this seemed like the appropriate topic to drop this post, as I felt making this it's own topic would come across as well. . . racist. And it just feels wrong that asking questions is going to offend an entire group of people when the person asking the question just wants to understand, either just because curiosity or to be better inclusive.

    I don't really know how to end this post so I'll just leave it there.

    Edit*: Also to address something said by OP, Celebrities exist solely to make controversial statements, they make money off of pissing people off or causing an uproar, the kardashians specifically among other people. I just ignore them at this point.

  5. #5

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    Didn't read everything, but I have been accused at least twice by a black fella I work with. He's looked at me twice and said "ARE YOU SURE YOU AREN'T BLACK!?" Because when that whole thing happened with that white woman freaking out on the airplane because the black lady's arm was close to her/touching her I said she was crazy. XD When he asked me that I said "I dunno. I might have something somewhere back in the past. I don't discount the possiblity! But black or white, freaking out and calling the cops because somebody was using their armrest is just crazy no matter how you slice that crazy cake." Same with the people calling the cops on kids for doing kid things like setting up a lemonade stand or something. Those people are anal retentive or something. But being a nutcase isn't confined to a skin color or national origin.

    But I do believe you totally can be racist to ANYONE. It's not as common to see stuff happen to white people (or anyone in a majority), but it does happen. My friend from Mexico told me that when he was a kid a white family moved to their town in Mexico and all of the Mexican kids tormented the shit out of the white kids because they were "Too white". I would imagine that happens in other countries, too.

    I work with a pretty diverse group of people and we all get along pretty well, although the most notorious racist at work is...DUN DUN DUN...a Filipino. (He's OK, really, but he's kinda xenophobic and you've got to work there a while before he gets used to you being around. Then he'll pick on you mercilessly. When he gets too annoying we just ask him if he's from Korea and if it's the 'good Korea' or 'bad Korea', which gets him going. But we all know how far you can go before there are real hurt feelings.)

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by PuppyLover View Post
    CULTURAL APPROPRIATION was a big thing when Kim Kardashian Decided to get her hair in box braids and cornrows a little while back. And before, I thought that the idea of a race wanting to own a style was stupid, and that anyone can wear whatever they want. I thought cultural appropriation was not a thing, and it was some dumb excuse for one race to hate another. But earlier today I fell down this hole on youtube, where there were so many stories of African American little girls getting suspended from school because of their hairstyles, and black women getting fired because of their hair, and even Sarah Baartman, who was put on display as a freak for having "unusually large" breasts and butt and sold into a circus, but now having a big butt and big boobs is a must.
    There's a big difference between "cultural appropriation" and racial discrimination.



    Quote Originally Posted by PuppyLover View Post
    Now, with so much going on in the news, it's really hard to ignore the extremes that people went to to oppress people way back in history, and I know that people of this generation are not responsible for what happened in the past. But that doesn't give certain people the right to say that appropriation just isn't a problem. And I know I'm using black and white people as an example, but its the only group I can relate to.

    This may sound cheesy, but I know what it's like to feel like you have to defend your culture. Whether it be music, style, or just general appearance. And I think the only reason certain people get so defensive about using things they claim their culture invented is because they can't let go of the past, and how screwed up it was for something to disrespect their heritage. And the fact that those people who took what you loved and beat it senseless, have the audacity to use it as their own just hurts a lot of people.
    Sure. But that's progress, isn't it?! It's far better to have your culture styles valued so much that other cultures imitate them, than for your cultural styles to face arbitrary racist discrimination!



    Quote Originally Posted by PuppyLover View Post
    The problem is that black people who wear dreadlocks look dirty and unprofessional on a black person, but empowering and beautiful on a white person.
    Utter nonsense.



    Quote Originally Posted by PuppyLover View Post
    I don't know, it's just seems like white people will always be born better off than black people, and will never get to experience real discrimination. And I'm not saying that just because your white you were born rich, I mean statistically, white/european people are the wealthiest amongst their entire population than others.
    Are you kidding me?! Look at the racism against Roma people, Travellers, the Irish, Jews, Chinese, etc. Being white doesn't protect you from racism. Racism isn't about skin colour!



    Quote Originally Posted by PuppyLover View Post
    But I swear I'm not an SJW, and I don't go around hating people for embracing other cultures.
    What's an SJW?



    Quote Originally Posted by PuppyLover View Post
    I hope this doesn't get moderated, I put like 40 minutes into typing this.
    Me too. Free and open discussion is something we should all cherish... (so long as it doesn't get out of hand). :-)

  7. #7

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    I will just state that as a 60 year-old white male, I have many non-white friends in the disability community.
    I am no saint, but I have tried to ditch the racism thing.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by tiny View Post
    What's an SJW?
    a social justice warrior

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by SgtOddball View Post
    1. Cultural Appropriation is not a thing...
    Of course it is. Look at Chinese restaurants in America, or Indian restaurants in Britain. We've culturally appropriated the cuisine from other cultures and made it our own. And what could be wrong with that?

    In the past, racism towards Indians and Chinese in both the UK and America has been quite prevalent. Cultural appropriation has been vital in changing attitudes towards other cultures. Look at how American "Chinese" restaurants have appropriated the Chinese cuisine and bastardised it for the American palate. Similarly with British "Indian" restaurants.

    What better way for different cultures to achieve social integration than to share their styles and traditions? This is how it has always been... with cultures blending, merging, and adapting over time.

    The idea that someone should take offence at a white person wearing dreads (because they are part of black culture, and black people have suffered racism) is as ridiculous as the idea that a white person should never eat a curry (because of the empirical exploitation of India).



    Quote Originally Posted by SgtOddball View Post
    2. People are oppressed daily, just look at South Africa and their current attempts are wiping out White Farmers?
    Sure, but that is simply a question of land ownership rights. White people stole land and black people want it back. Culture isn't really relevant.



    Quote Originally Posted by SgtOddball View Post
    3. Yep, people exploring other cultures do indeed hurt people, espiecally those who are too xenophobic to want people to explore and be enlightened by cultures that may not necessarily be their own.
    I totally disagree. Look at the racism of 1970s Britain, and the popularity of Indian restaurants. Even the most racist xenophobe would go for a curry because they're just so good! The chicken tikka masala is the most popular curry, yet it was invented in England. Exposing xenophobes to the best of foreign culture can only be a good thing. They might actually learn something. I think the influence of Indian cuisine on British society went a long way in eroding cultural prejudices.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by tiny View Post
    Of course it is. Look at Chinese restaurants in America, or Indian restaurants in Britain. We've culturally appropriated the cuisine from other cultures and made it our own. And what could be wrong with that?

    In the past, racism towards Indians and Chinese in both the UK and America has been quite prevalent. Cultural appropriation has been vital in changing attitudes towards other cultures. Look at how American "Chinese" restaurants have appropriated the Chinese cuisine and bastardised it for the American palate. Similarly with British "Indian" restaurants.

    What better way for different cultures to achieve social integration than to share their styles and traditions? This is how it has always been... with cultures blending, merging, and adapting over time.

    The idea that someone should take offence at a white person wearing dreads (because they are part of black culture, and black people have suffered racism) is as ridiculous as the idea that a white person should never eat a curry (because of the empirical exploitation of India).



    Sure, but that is simply a question of land ownership rights. White people stole land and black people want it back. Culture isn't really relevant.



    I totally disagree. Look at the racism of 1970s Britain, and the popularity of Indian restaurants. Even the most racist xenophobe would go for a curry because they're just so good! The chicken tikka masala is the most popular curry, yet it was invented in England. Exposing xenophobes to the best of foreign culture can only be a good thing. They might actually learn something. I think the influence of Indian cuisine on British society went a long way in eroding cultural prejudices.
    1. Exactly how is this Cultural Appropriation though? That is the big question, we aren't, even in England, Appropriating the dishes of other nations, in fact at most we are sharing our love for the cuisines of other nations, that is in no way in hell the Appropriation of Culture, so the claim still remains fictional in that sense. The same is with clothes, hairstyle, maybe we should start doing the same about Language? Since all it comes down to in the end is pettiness, people want something to complain about, and this "Appropriation" is the easiest target for these people. It is in every way not only ignorant, but also Xenophobic.

    2. Right, because Genocide is always the answer. Not. And the question is not at all to do with land ownership rights, but the rights of Human Beings, I'm pretty certain that both sides of the population in South Africa is Human correct? Or are we treat one side as sub-Human? Cause that is exactly what the question here is about and not simply about Land Ownership, but about Racism at its finest, and proof that it doesn't just exist in mostly white countries.

    3. And here I disagree completely, Indian Restaurants were not invented to erode Xenophobia but to help share the love of cuisine from the Orient and long ago India had been apart of the British Empire. However to say someone is appropriating a dish is still Xenophobia at its height, and Xenophobia isn't just limited to those that are intolerant to other cultures, but also to those who are intolerant of others experiencing other cultures.

    This is also the same with the apparent "White Privilege" which in itself doesn't exist either.
    Last edited by SgtOddball; 1 Week Ago at 15:25.

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