It's not easy being green

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woodenpotty

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I rather new here and perhaps I'm posting to soothe my conscience. I feel I need to urge DLs to use cloth. While I know there is a place for disposables the ecological impact is had to ignore. Even when out for short periods, use a diaper bag or equivalent.

If one starts in their twenties, you could be make your own landfill for fifty years or so.
I'm 71 and I remember my uncle, who was head of maintenance for a large nursing home. When he started and they were washing cloth diapers. Then disposables came and they changed to them. Mothballing a number of industrial washing machines.

Eventually they returned to cloth and firing up the extra machines. In their case, part of it was due to the fact that used disposables were medical waste. And medical waste is expensive to deal with.
Please consider the environment. I may be "preaching to the choir" but I feel like I need to say this just calm my own brain.
 
If I wasn't a lady and didn't have a particular problem once a month, you can bet I would be in cloth. :3 It's what I wore as a baby and I am SORELY tempted to get a couple just to use when I'm sure that I'm in the clear. (Well, technically it was BOTH, I wore cloth unless we were going out of town on a long road trip. Then it was disposables just because it was a hassle to deal with cloth when you had no where to wash them.)

I like the disposables, but there's something kinda charming about the cloth ones.
 
I think most mothers who cloth diaper their babies these days would argue that the current methods of cloth diapering make it just as easy as using disposables ... assuming you're content to do an extra load of laundry every other day or so.

Unfortunately, there's no easy way to deal with an adult-sized cloth diaper when you're out and about. The only really viable choice (and I've been trying to find something that would work since 1985!) are adult pocket diapers, with an insert that can, when wet, be rolled up and put into a small wet bag.

There's just no way I'd go out of the house wearing an adult prefold or AIO. Changing is a hassle, even in a family restroom, and you'd better have a big diaper bag to accommodate the large wet diaper. My compromise is to wear thin disposables when I'm out and about (usually for lunch or to run errands) and use cloth diapers whenever I'm at home.

My current caregiver does enjoy using the thicker disposables like ABU Space, but there's no easy way to justify the cost ... and, as WP points out, the toll on the environment also makes you stop and wonder what we're leaving behind for future generations.
 
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Not that much into the green living. However you do trade one for the other solid waste or liquid sewerage and the energy produced to run those washers and dryers and the solid waste from the containers of detergent and bleach and lint & Fabric Softener sheets. So with that all taken into consideration disposables are actually less of a effect on the planet once the paper degrades you have plastic sheet left.
So I would submit to you that Disposables win.
 
They're both equally harmful to the environment considering the power it takes to wash cloth diapers, the chemicals and ect. Cotton also uses so much water (more than any other crop) and pesticides during growing. The only reason cloth diapers aren't exactly making a huge impact is because it's rarely used compared to disposables, even if we were all in cloth diapers, it still wouldn't change the environment. So don't try guilt tripping people here for a null result.

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I have heard that in Japan and other countries they have figured out a way to convert disposable diapers into fuel to burn in power plants and it's much less dangerous for the environment than tossing them in a land fill. I would say if we could do that here in the United states we could probably cut our dependence on coal for fuel in half!
 
CuddleWoozle said:
If I wasn't a lady and didn't have a particular problem once a month, you can bet I would be in cloth. :3 It's what I wore as a baby and I am SORELY tempted to get a couple just to use when I'm sure that I'm in the clear. (Well, technically it was BOTH, I wore cloth unless we were going out of town on a long road trip. Then it was disposables just because it was a hassle to deal with cloth when you had no where to wash them.)

I like the disposables, but there's something kinda charming about the cloth ones.

Not to go into too much detail here, but...what about using tampons or cups for those days? I've always wondered about that. Or get a set of non-white inserts? I've actually switched to cloth pads (yes, they exist) and to me it's not really any more icky than dealing with disposable products in that regard. Not sure how well that would translate to cloth diapers though...
 
Schwanensee said:
Not to go into too much detail here, but...what about using tampons or cups for those days? I've always wondered about that. Or get a set of non-white inserts? I've actually switched to cloth pads (yes, they exist) and to me it's not really any more icky than dealing with disposable products in that regard. Not sure how well that would translate to cloth diapers though...

I've got a deep seated psychological issue with shoving anything up there. XD It's not that I have trauma from anything, or that I think it's gross, I just have a phobia about anything getting STUCK in there and not coming out again. :laugh: I actually had no idea they had 'non-white' inserts. O_O I'm gonna have to check this out.
 
CuddleWoozle said:
I've got a deep seated psychological issue with shoving anything up there. XD It's not that I have trauma from anything, or that I think it's gross, I just have a phobia about anything getting STUCK in there and not coming out again. :laugh: I actually had no idea they had 'non-white' inserts. O_O I'm gonna have to check this out.

Ah, okay, I can understand that. Our biology teacher put a fear of that into my mind for a while as well.
Have you checked out the ecoables website? They have charcoal bamboo inserts, no chance of stains showing up on that. I can't personally vouch for their diapers since I make my own, but I've recently heard many good things about them.
 
CuddleWoozle said:
I actually had no idea they had 'non-white' inserts. O_O I'm gonna have to check this out.

Dependeco has all-in-one and pocket diapers available with black or light brown liners. I love the fact that they're not white like all the other brands seem to be.
 
xpluswearer said:
Not that much into the green living. However you do trade one for the other solid waste or liquid sewerage and the energy produced to run those washers and dryers and the solid waste from the containers of detergent and bleach and lint & Fabric Softener sheets. So with that all taken into consideration disposables are actually less of a effect on the planet once the paper degrades you have plastic sheet left.
So I would submit to you that Disposables win.

1) you don't bleach cloth diapers that will ruin them (so bleach is not used for cloth diapers, but see below it is used for disposable diapers)
2) you don't use fabric softener on cloth diapers that will put a water resistant layer on so they don't work as well. (fabric softener is not used with cloth diapers)
3) when something goes to the dump it gets buried which delays the decomposition, paper can last for many decades even centuries,
4) liquid sewage can be treated water is a renewable resource, but once paper and plastic goes into the landfill those are not renewable, and there is only so much oil in the world and plastic is a oil based product
5) The energy used for washing is less then the energy used for producing one disposable diaper.
6) also ignoring that water is renewable, disposable diapers use more water in the production of them then in washing cloth diapers
7) disposable diapers use more chemicals then cloth diapers (they use bleach in disposable diapers)
8) more gas is used for disposable diapers they need to be delivered all the time, while with cloth does use coal (for the power plants) it produces a lot less CO2 the washer only runs for 35 to 40 minutes;
9) you can use the cloth diapers to save energy elsewhere and if like me you line dry there is no cost for drying the diaper, plus my line drying in my apartment means I don't have to run the humidifier, where I live I have a problem with the humidity dropping into the teens in my apartment but since I have been line during my diapers, I am able to keep it up into the 40% and even the 50% without using electricity to run the humidifier, plus using less water as the water used to rinse the diapers is the same water used to humidify my apartment, so now I am running the washer for up to 40 minutes every other day, instead of running the humidifier 24/7 so I can subtract from the energy usage of the washer the energy saved from not running the humidifier which I do need as when the air is to dry, in the 20%, I get nose bleeds so for health reasons I need higher humidity it not a comfort thing.doing some research I find a load of laundry will run about .13Kw, so per week that is, let's assume high load week 4 loads, .52 Kw, now the humidifier is about 67.5 Kw every 90 days day or 7.5Kw a day, now we take a look I need to run that 7 days a week *see links below for where I pulled numbers. True it does take 2 days to line dry but since I have 34 cloth diapers, and only use between 6 to 9 a day, I can let them dry for 2 days.

finally I don't do cloth for the environment but the cost. A nice stash of cloth diapers will run less than 1k, and if I was to do disposable I could run though that in about 5 months just for disposable ( I wear nearly all the time, the only time I don't wear is when at the office, and that is only 3 days a week, and 10 hours total a day counting drive and lunches) on my telework days and on weekend I wear all the time, and as soon as I get home on my office days I am right back into diapers. No the myth that cloth is just as bad or worse for the env has been debunked many times, there is only one study ever that showed cloth was worst for the env then disposable, and that was done by P&G (I sure they had an agenda there) This also takes into consideration the washing machine I use costs 1.75 per load (the dryer is another 1.75 but they are bad driers and usually takes 2 cycles to dry clothing, but as I noted above I line dry my diapers, and clothing) So my diapers and clothing run me about 7 a week, or 28 a month (note these washers are not in my apartment so I don't pay electricity or water on them, so that 28 is just the fee, and I don't have to pay anything extra a month for the washer). While disposables would run 100 a case, a case is only 40 diapers and I would need just over 4 cases of diapers a month (lets round down to 4, 40 diapers devided by my low number of diapers a day of 6 means a case would last 6 days, let's assume the week is only 6 days and we have an even number of only 4 weeks in a month, for only 24 days a month no more) that is 400 a month for disposables, and for 400 I can get a very good start on a good stash of diapers, so in 2.5 months I have a good stash of cloth diapers, also if you want you can add in an extra 4 a month for clothing detergent, that half of what a box costs me and a box lasts me about 2 to 3 months.

Also it nice to know I don't have to worry about running out of diapers, or have to wait for them to be delivered or fear they get delivered to the wrong apartment (UPS and FEDEX love to do that, they always deliver to the apartment below me my stuff)



*
http://www.bounceenergy.com/blog/2016/05/how-much-energy-does-this-appliance-use-humidifier/ (for hours per day, I do a load every other day, and it runs for about 30 to 40 minutes so I put .25 in for hours per day, I accepted the default wattage for the washer, but fill free to play with the numbers)
http://energyusecalculator.com/electricity_clotheswasher.htm (I used the TaoTronics TT-AH001: example but I am sure my humidifer used a higher amouth of wattage, then I had to take their number and muitiply by 2.5, as they used it for 10 hours and I have to run mine 24 hours if I don't line dry my cloth diapers)
 
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babyboy said:
1) you don't bleach cloth diapers that will ruin them (so bleach is not used for cloth diapers, but see below it is used for disposable diapers)
2) you don't use fabric softener on cloth diapers that will put a water resistant layer on so they don't work as well. (fabric softener is not used with cloth diapers)
3) when something goes to the dump it gets buried which delays the decomposition, paper can last for many decades even centuries,
4) liquid sewage can be treated water is a renewable resource, but once paper and plastic goes into the landfill those are not renewable, and there is only so much oil in the world and plastic is a oil based product
5) The energy used for washing is less then the energy used for producing one disposable diaper.
6) also ignoring that water is renewable, disposable diapers use more water in the production of them then in washing cloth diapers
7) disposable diapers use more chemicals then cloth diapers (they use bleach in disposable diapers)
8) more gas is used for disposable diapers they need to be delivered all the time, while with cloth does use coal (for the power plants) it produces a lot less CO2 the washer only runs for 35 to 40 minutes;
9) you can use the cloth diapers to save energy elsewhere and if like me you line dry there is no cost for drying the diaper, plus my line drying in my apartment means I don't have to run the humidifier, where I live I have a problem with the humidity dropping into the teens in my apartment but since I have been line during my diapers, I am able to keep it up into the 40% and even the 50% without using electricity to run the humidifier, plus using less water as the water used to rinse the diapers is the same water used to humidify my apartment, so now I am running the washer for up to 40 minutes every other day, instead of running the humidifier 24/7 so I can subtract from the energy usage of the washer the energy saved from not running the humidifier which I do need as when the air is to dry, in the 20%, I get nose bleeds so for health reasons I need higher humidity it not a comfort thing.doing some research I find a load of laundry will run about .13Kw, so per week that is, let's assume high load week 4 loads, .52 Kw, now the humidifier is about 67.5 Kw a day, now we take a look I need to run that 7 days a week *see links below for where I pulled numbers. True it does take 2 days to line dry but since I have 34 cloth diapers, and only use between 6 to 9 a day, I can let them dry for 2 days.

finally I don't do cloth for the environment but the cost. A nice stash of cloth diapers will run less than 1k, and if I was to do disposable I could run though that in about 5 months just for disposable ( I wear nearly all the time, the only time I don't wear is when at the office, and that is only 3 days a week, and 10 hours total counting drive and lunches) on my telework days and on weekend I wear all the time, and as soon as I get home on my office days I am right back into diapers. No the myth that cloth is just as bad or worse for the env has been debunked many times, there is only one study ever that showed cloth was worst for the env then disposable, and that was done by P&G (I sure they had an agenda there) This also takes into consideration the washing machine I use costs 1.75 per load (the dryer is another 1.75 but they are bad driers and usually takes 2 cycles to dry clothing, but as I noted above I line dry my diapers, and clothing) So my diapers and clothing run me about 7 a week, or 28 a month (note these washers are not in my apartment so I don't pay electricity or water on them, so that 28 is just the fee, and I don't have to pay anything extra a month for the washer). While disposables would run 100 a case, a case is only 40 diapers and I would need just over 4 cases of diapers a month (lets round down to 4, 40 diapers devided by my low number of diapers a day of 6 means a case would last 6 days, let's assume the week is only 6 days and we have an even number of only 4 weeks in a month, for only 24 days a month no more) that is 400 a month for disposables, and for 400 I can get a very good start on a good stash of diapers, so in 2.5 months I have a good stash of cloth diapers, also if you want you can add in an extra 4 a month for clothing detergent, that half of what a box costs me and a box lasts me about 2 to 3 months.

Also it nice to know I don't have to worry about running out of diapers, or have to wait for them to be delivered or fear they get delivered to the wrong apartment (UPS and FEDEX love to do that, they always deliver to the apartment below me my stuff)



*
http://www.bounceenergy.com/blog/2016/05/how-much-energy-does-this-appliance-use-humidifier/ (for hours per day, I do a load every other day, and it runs for about 30 to 40 minutes so I put .25 in for hours per day, I accepted the default wattage for the washer, but fill free to play with the numbers)
http://energyusecalculator.com/electricity_clotheswasher.htm (I used the TaoTronics TT-AH001: example but I am sure my humidifer used a higher amouth of wattage, then I had to take their number and muitiply by 2.5, as they used it for 10 hours and I have to run mine 24 hours if I don't line dry my cloth diapers)

Okay lets unpack your comment:
You use bleach in the washing cycle to sanitize the fabric---Hear of ECOLI...
Strange that I use fabric softener in all of my loads of laundry and my towels still absorb massive amounts of water I know I had a pipe bust on the drain of the washer and it took about 6 towels to sop up the water contained it too ALSO the supply line to my toilet snapped too, so I aint worried on that front.
Wish new washers had a 30 minute cycle to wash clothes now the quickest cycle I can find is 55 minutes on my LG Front loading washer. thankfully dryers still have time dry and the 60 minute timeframe still remains.
There is so much land and underwater that has yet to be researched that the misnomer of oil is a limited resource In fact every day new discoveries of oil are happening just the other day they located one of the motherlode's of oil deposits that will satisfy the needs of the world for over 100 years so please stop with the nonsense of that. Come to find out the US holds the Trump card on oil we are now outpacing Russia & Saudi Arabia now and we for the first time in decades exporting oil.
Paper does degrade and go back to nature ever look at the toilet paper when you open up the septic tank its mush and does not resemble toilet paper in its purchased state. Plastic on the otherhand takes a bit longer. FYI Put a ream of paper in a safe and close it and I guarantee you that in short order that ream of paper without the plastic covering will become mush! I know I had important papers crumble that is the modern paper making for you. That was with Baking soda & Silica salt packet too.
Now as far as nose bleeds you may be on too much blood thinners and or your blood pressure is way too high or use wood for heat. You can eliminate the humidifier by placing a pot of water on your stove and let it be just change the water daily.
Seems that I have never had a issue with UPS or FEDEX just watch the weather when you order if they call for a storm in a few days put off ordering for a day or two and you will be fine. Since if Airlines or Greyhound cancels your package will be grounded too.
 
It doesn't have to be 'either-or'. You can decide which is most logical for particular situations. Thus if you are going out and are not straying too far from home, you can use cloth. In other situation, eg travelling far from home, cloth might be awkward so disposables might be a more practical solution.
When I was in my teens and early twenties cloth was more widely used, probably because disposables weren't much good in those days. So I have experience of both.
 
xpluswearer said:
Okay lets unpack your comment:
You use bleach in the washing cycle to sanitize the fabric---Hear of ECOLI...
https://happyendingsecodiapers.com/...snaparrowdiaperhappyendingsteenadultsnapwhite
if you look they say don't bleach the diaper (the insert is ok, but not the diaper)
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/13/science/how-to-kill-germs-in-the-laundry.html
Temperature can be used to kill germs in diapers, I just wash them on hot. Also you are assuming all cloth diapers get BMed in, not all ABs BM in their diapers, I am one that only wets them I don't like BMing in diapers.

Strange that I use fabric softener in all of my loads of laundry and my towels still absorb massive amounts of water I know I had a pipe bust on the drain of the washer and it took about 6 towels to sop up the water contained it too ALSO the supply line to my toilet snapped too, so I aint worried on that front.
https://www.cleanipedia.com/gb/clothing-care/how-to-use-fabric-conditioner-tips-and-tricks
"However, you do not need to use fabric softener every time you wash your towels. Fabric softeners can reduce the absorbency of towels; so in order to keep them fluffy and absorbent at the same time, use in every other wash."
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...w-to-clean-towels_us_55f9c7d0e4b08820d9171394
"This reduces your towel’s ability to absorb water or dry you off after a shower. The residue also locks in odors, giving your towels that mildewy smell. "

Wish new washers had a 30 minute cycle to wash clothes now the quickest cycle I can find is 55 minutes on my LG Front loading washer. thankfully dryers still have time dry and the 60 minute timeframe still remains.
I would say it depend on where you look the ones downstairs the HE ones run 32 minutes for hot, 30 for regular I have never looked at perm press or delicates

There is so much land and underwater that has yet to be researched that the misnomer of oil is a limited resource In fact every day new discoveries of oil are happening just the other day they located one of the motherlode's of oil deposits that will satisfy the needs of the world for over 100 years so please stop with the nonsense of that. Come to find out the US holds the Trump card on oil we are now outpacing Russia & Saudi Arabia now and we for the first time in decades exporting oil.
Paper does degrade and go back to nature ever look at the toilet paper when you open up the septic tank its mush and does not resemble toilet paper in its purchased state. Plastic on the otherhand takes a bit longer. FYI Put a ream of paper in a safe and close it and I guarantee you that in short order that ream of paper without the plastic covering will become mush!
we are talking diapers not TP, the plastic and sap in diapers will take a while,
https://www.thebalancesmb.com/how-long-does-it-take-garbage-to-decompose-2878033
paper left out and with O2 will take a bit less time, but paper in an anarobi envroment suce as in a dump takes a bit longer
https://greenliving.lovetoknow.com/How_Does_Recycling_Paper_Help_Landfills

I know I had important papers crumble that is the modern paper making for you. That was with Baking soda & Silica salt packet too.
Now as far as nose bleeds you may be on too much blood thinners and or your blood pressure is way too high or use wood for heat. You can eliminate the humidifier by placing a pot of water on your stove and let it be just change the water daily.
Seems that I have never had a issue with UPS or FEDEX just watch the weather when you order if they call for a storm in a few days put off ordering for a day or two and you will be fine. Since if Airlines or Greyhound cancels your package will be grounded too.
The nosebleeds is because (this has been diagnosed) the skin inside my nose is to thin, so when the air dries and the skin cracks the blood vessels crack with the skin.

Also I would like to note, I am not an environmentalist, in fact I have some doubts about HUMAN CAUSED global warming. And while I am not sure on cause of global warming I also don't think we should ignore the possibilities also (such as why I got a fuel efficient car, it gets about 40 MPG, so I am hedging my bets, while I am a doubter I am also taking actions as if I was not a doubter, but at the same time I don't go out of my way either, aka I will not get an electric car as I do some time drive places up to 1k miles away and an electric car would be to much of a pain to use, I want to be able to fill up in less than 5 minutes)
And as for UPS and FedEx they seem to think the basement is 1 and the first floor is 2, so my stuff goes to the person below me, and the person above me stuff gets delivered to me all the time, I don't know what they do with a package that is just a letter and not a number and letter.
 
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A ream of paper in a safe? Are we soaking it with acid or what now? 'Cause I have filing cabinets full of artwork that are over 20 years old and they haven't turn to 'mush'. They're not even brittle. And they're drawn on regular old printer paper. ;) You have to do something to it to cause it to break down.

Also, I've been fascinated by what 'survives' in landfills for a long time. Ever since I read an article in National Geographic where they excavated a landfill and the scientist doing it discovered some of their old magazines. I can't find the article now to show it to you guys, but it was some time in the late 80's early 90's, and the magazines they dug up were from the 50's. They were determining 'age' of the strata by the objects they found and they determined that the strata they found the magazines in was buried in the late 50's early 60's. And the magazines were still intact and readable. O_O

Because as they were buried, air was blocked off and the micro-organisms that would normally have gone to work munching the paper into dirt died. So decades later they could turn up again. The magazines weren't the only thing they used to determine the age, there were soda bottles and other items. But the grossest thing they dug up was a freaking turkey leg. From the 70's. A TURKEY LEG MAN. D: And it still had meat on it because it was buried in the ground and no micro-organisms could get at it to eat it! That blows my mind.
 
babyboy said:
https://happyendingsecodiapers.com/...snaparrowdiaperhappyendingsteenadultsnapwhite
if you look they say don't bleach the diaper (the insert is ok, but not the diaper)
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/13/science/how-to-kill-germs-in-the-laundry.html
Temperature can be used to kill germs in diapers, I just wash them on hot. Also you are assuming all cloth diapers get BMed in, not all ABs BM in their diapers, I am one that only wets them I don't like BMing in diapers.


https://www.cleanipedia.com/gb/clothing-care/how-to-use-fabric-conditioner-tips-and-tricks
"However, you do not need to use fabric softener every time you wash your towels. Fabric softeners can reduce the absorbency of towels; so in order to keep them fluffy and absorbent at the same time, use in every other wash."
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...w-to-clean-towels_us_55f9c7d0e4b08820d9171394
"This reduces your towel’s ability to absorb water or dry you off after a shower. The residue also locks in odors, giving your towels that mildewy smell. "


I would say it depend on where you look the ones downstairs the HE ones run 32 minutes for hot, 30 for regular I have never looked at perm press or delicates


we are talking diapers not TP, the plastic and sap in diapers will take a while,
https://www.thebalancesmb.com/how-long-does-it-take-garbage-to-decompose-2878033
paper left out and with O2 will take a bit less time, but paper in an anarobi envroment suce as in a dump takes a bit longer
https://greenliving.lovetoknow.com/How_Does_Recycling_Paper_Help_Landfills


The nosebleeds is because (this has been diagnosed) the skin inside my nose is to thin, so when the air dries and the skin cracks the blood vessels crack with the skin.

Also I would like to note, I am not an environmentalist, in fact I have some doubts about HUMAN CAUSED global warming. And while I am not sure on cause of global warming I also don't think we should ignore the possibilities also (such as why I got a fuel efficient car, it gets about 40 MPG, so I am hedging my bets, while I am a doubter I am also taking actions as if I was not a doubter, but at the same time I don't go out of my way either, aka I will not get an electric car as I do some time drive places up to 1k miles away and an electric car would be to much of a pain to use, I want to be able to fill up in less than 5 minutes)
And as for UPS and FedEx they seem to think the basement is 1 and the first floor is 2, so my stuff goes to the person below me, and the person above me stuff gets delivered to me all the time, I don't know what they do with a package that is just a letter and not a number and letter.

The new front load washers have lengthened the time to wash the good old ones top loader ones with a center agitator in them wash at 30 minutes flat for a large load of whites & Colored clothes.
You need to contact UPS or FEDEX and get the local driver manager to call you to discuss this as when I was in college out in Rhode Island the route driver must have not had graduated high school as we would get packages for next door it took me to call in and get the driver manager to call us and I lambasted them and that driver was off the route the next day FINALLY! Was told the driver was sent for training and I hope a lesson in READING!!! Wondered how the lamebrain passed the drivers license test!

- - - Updated - - -

CuddleWoozle said:
A ream of paper in a safe? Are we soaking it with acid or what now? 'Cause I have filing cabinets full of artwork that are over 20 years old and they haven't turn to 'mush'. They're not even brittle. And they're drawn on regular old printer paper. ;) You have to do something to it to cause it to break down.

Also, I've been fascinated by what 'survives' in landfills for a long time. Ever since I read an article in National Geographic where they excavated a landfill and the scientist doing it discovered some of their old magazines. I can't find the article now to show it to you guys, but it was some time in the late 80's early 90's, and the magazines they dug up were from the 50's. They were determining 'age' of the strata by the objects they found and they determined that the strata they found the magazines in was buried in the late 50's early 60's. And the magazines were still intact and readable. O_O

Because as they were buried, air was blocked off and the micro-organisms that would normally have gone to work munching the paper into dirt died. So decades later they could turn up again. The magazines weren't the only thing they used to determine the age, there were soda bottles and other items. But the grossest thing they dug up was a freaking turkey leg. From the 70's. A TURKEY LEG MAN. D: And it still had meat on it because it was buried in the ground and no micro-organisms could get at it to eat it! That blows my mind.

No the paper was important financial papers and other papers of importance. Even had a stack of 100's in the safe and they came out very fragile and smelled like mold! And found out that laminated documents fared well in the safe. It does not take long for the process to begin.
Glass is one of the last things to break down. Found it odd that a turkey leg would still have meat on it since meat would have been eaten by rodents or other land pests or if not maggots! with in a few weeks. Since if you toss oit a bag of trash by your door at night and want to take it to the dumpster in the morning you find the bag ripped opened and spewed across the lawn and either a racoon or stray animal would have their next meal.
 
xpluswearer said:
No the paper was important financial papers and other papers of importance. Even had a stack of 100's in the safe and they came out very fragile and smelled like mold! And found out that laminated documents fared well in the safe. It does not take long for the process to begin.
Glass is one of the last things to break down. Found it odd that a turkey leg would still have meat on it since meat would have been eaten by rodents or other land pests or if not maggots! with in a few weeks. Since if you toss oit a bag of trash by your door at night and want to take it to the dumpster in the morning you find the bag ripped opened and spewed across the lawn and either a racoon or stray animal would have their next meal.
Ya the ones downstairs are top loaders with a center agitator.
I am not to worried about the FEDEX or UPS, for now the places I order my diapers from ship via USPS, and the mail lady gets things right, the stuff that come from UPS and FEDEX are not embarrassing things and the few times I do order from bambinos they let you select ship to FEDEX distribution area and the closest one to me is the Walgreens across the street, plus since everyone in the building knows this happens the first thing we all do is double check the address and name and take it up on flight of stairs, I have good neighbors so (well I can not speak for the new ones that just moved in over the weekend but the other 8 apartments are all good), and since have almost filled out my cloth diaper stash, just need to hold till the 13th of next month to do my final order I don't think I have to worry to much about my diapers being found out (unless someone sneaks a peak in the washing machine while I am doing a load of diapers) Plus I would not want to get someone fire in this economy, delivery drivers may not get paid well but it still a job.

No the paper was important financial papers and other papers of importance. Even had a stack of 100's in the safe and they came out very fragile and smelled like mold! And found out that laminated documents fared well in the safe. It does not take long for the process to begin.
There the problem "smelled like mold" did you let water get into the safe? That could be what caused the issue, that can drastically shorten the life of paper when there is O2 around. ya once mold starts growing paper is gone fast.
 
Turkey Leg: It's because it was dumped and buried right away; not left out in the open to deteriorate. Kind of like a grosser version of mummification. XD

I actually have a safe, and I store a collection of paper money in there and have never ever had anything like that happen. And they've been in there for years and years now.

I think perhaps something is going on with your safe. O_O Is it a big safe or one of those 'portable' ones? 'Cause that might be the difference, mine is a great big monstrosity.
 
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