Goodnites: Will K&C every take the hint?

If you take a look at Goodnites’ and Depend’s reviews you’ll see a pretty significant number of people, mostly parents or caregivers, asking for bigger sized Goodnites or something to fit bigger kids and young adults. People have been asking literally for years and still K&C won’t budge. Granted they did reassess the sizing for their Depend products, but that was geared more for larger sizes.

Just yesterday, I read an article of how diaper sells are suffering since the recession, due to fewer Americans having children, so the solution was to make a higher quality, more eco friendly, line of products that appealed to parents. I mean, this is great business sense, but, I still can’t help but to wonder why they (K&C in this case) haven’t listened to their customer and expanded on what they already have? I mean, let’s face it, there is still a pretty significant market for a bigger sized Goodnite or like-product, and I feel that the ABDL community, though not anywhere on their radar, combined with their target consumer is significant enough to be a viable market.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

I have to be honest, that size range you speak of is an unfulfilled range. There's a few choices, but most of it is bad products. However, as far as Kimberly Clark goes, they're not interested, because they're only interested in mass distribution and profits. It would be a rather small market. I know this because I've seen pharmacies with several packages of youth sized diapers that were a decade old or more. So as far as Kimberly Clark goes, they'd have to buy and update their machines to be able to make these products that don't particularly sell. Not only that, but they'd have to buy and replace extra shelf space in stores. Yes, seriously, they have to buy shelf space, especially in larger chains of stores.

As far as those parents go, they don't take time to actually research and discover products that are already available. They just expect everything to be in brick and mortar stores at their particular convenience. There's good products available, they're just lazy, and clueless.

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ThatHiddenDL said:

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

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It would be an extremely poor business decision for Kimberly-Clark to make Goodnites any larger. They must maintain their current speration from their Depend and Adult product line to avoid any possible overlap which would hurt their bottom line.
Goodnites is only designed to go up to size 14 and they do that, and some people would argue and have argued on here they fit people with a 32 or 34" waist and if that is true then they are already completely overlapping with their S/M Depend products as it is. Making them any larger would be foolish and they would stand to lose a great deal as a result.



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That's what I've always thought. I get that making a new size is a pain in the butt, and that equipment changes are expensive, but when it's been asked after for YEARS on a pretty regular basis, I wonder what their deal is with not even trying it.

Even my own mom said "I don't know why they don't make those bigger for the kids who are special needs or incontinent." XD I said "People have been asking for a long long time and they won't do it. They won't say WHY, but they just don't seem to want to make them."

I honestly think the only way their going to do it is if another company does it first. Like create a whole freaking line of "Pretty Pants" for tweens/teens/young adults. Then when they lose market share, they'd probably jump in with something. But I doubt that's gonna happen any time soon.

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As for overlapping with Depend, I don't really see the issue? Kids are NOT gonna want to wear Depends. Even if they fit them, they won't want to wear them because they have that stigma of being 'for old people'.

If you got exposed wearing a printed pull-up at a sleepover to your friends, that would be bad enough. But who would want to be exposed for wearing OLD PEOPLE DIAPERS at a sleepover? Then you're not only going to get teased for wearing a diaper, you're getting it double because you're wearing one for 'old people'.

God, I'm not even a tween/teenager and I'm mortified just -thinking- about it. :laugh:

MeTaLMaNN1983 said:

As far as those parents go, they don't take time to actually research and discover products that are already available. They just expect everything to be in brick and mortar stores at their particular convenience. There's good products available, they're just lazy, and clueless.

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I totally agree with this statement. There definitely is a good selection of youth products available that would be suitable for youth even though people on here may not care for them because they don't have designs or some other reason.


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CuddleWoozle said:

That's what I've always thought. I get that making a new size is a pain in the butt, and that equipment changes are expensive, but when it's been asked after for YEARS on a pretty regular basis, I wonder what their deal is with not even trying it.

Even my own mom said "I don't know why they don't make those bigger for the kids who are special needs or incontinent." XD I said "People have been asking for a long long time and they won't do it. They won't say WHY, but they just don't seem to want to make them."

I honestly think the only way their going to do it is if another company does it first. Like create a whole freaking line of "Pretty Pants" for tweens/teens/young adults. Then when they lose market share, they'd probably jump in with something. But I doubt that's gonna happen any time soon.

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As for overlapping with Depend, I don't really see the issue? Kids are NOT gonna want to wear Depends. Even if they fit them, they won't want to wear them because they have that stigma of being 'for old people'.

If you got exposed wearing a printed pull-up at a sleepover to your friends, that would be bad enough. But who would want to be exposed for wearing OLD PEOPLE DIAPERS at a sleepover? Then you're not only going to get teased for wearing a diaper, you're getting it double because you're wearing one for 'old people'.

God, I'm not even a tween/teenager and I'm mortified just -thinking- about it. [emoji23]

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Like I said, the market isn't large enough to justify making a larger size. I don't think a kid with IC issues wants to be caught wearing printed diapers. I don't think they'd like to be referred as a baby because they have an issue. They're not you, they're not abdl.

People have been asking for a long time about having bigger diapers available? They are available, there's some good ones out there, and like I said, people are only wondering about why they're not available in local stores. They might not know about the rather large variety available online, or they're just so inconvenienced that they have to order them online.

Kimberly Clark is a huge corporation, they make paper products and they spend a lot of money on shelving inside stores since their products are bulky.

Let's talk about P&G, they are the makers of Pampers. They make paper products and so much more. From diapers, to tooth paste, to floor cleaner, and much more. They won't make a larger sized baby diaper because there's not a big enough market to invest in. They sold off the Attend brand of adult diapers, which were way better than Depend. Because the market was miniscule compared to everything else. They are a billion dollar corporation that doesn't need or want to deal with small niche markets.

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Goodnites can "fit" an average sized adult, but they dont really fit; you know what I mean?

To elaborate; they dont really fit an average sized adult, but an average sized adult can squeeze into them.

And yes it's an unfortunate truth that diapers sized bigger than big kids/teenagers (at the biggest) is a niche market, and most makers are not willing to put forward potentially millions of dollars to enter into a small market.

Doesn’t NorthShore make youth diapers for kids/young adults in this range? I agree that most kids that are around the age of 14 and incontinent probably want a diaper to do its job, and not look babyish. And I agree on there not being a large enough market for printed diapers within this size range.

I think you guys have made a lot of great and valid points. Something else that I thought of after making this post, that is probably a crucial factor, is brand image. To be blunt, the anatomical difference of preteen, teen, and young adult means that there’s a chance that the product probably wouldn’t work as well as they would hope. Let’s face it, for bedwetting adults, tape on (or cloth) diapers are hands down the way to go rather than pull ons. For a product as reputable as Goodnites to potentially gain a bad rap during a roll-out of a new size could also make investors uneasy.

Thanks for the responses!

MeTaLMaNN1983 said:

Like I said, the market isn't large enough to justify making a larger size. I don't think a kid with IC issues wants to be caught wearing printed diapers. I don't think they'd like to be referred as a baby because they have an issue. They're not you, they're not abdl.
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I'm talking that they can make a different print, dude, not the 'baby' prints. I sure as hell didn't want to wear 'adult diapers' when I was smaller. An IC kid hasn't got much of a choice, but I dunno, maybe they'd actually LIKE something if it looked cool? I'm talking about stuff that tweens would like, maybe subtle patterns or something so they'd actually pass as underwear? So, no, I'm not actually coming at it from an ABDL standpoint, I'm actively trying to think about the kids themselves. What would be better? Plain white? Printed to look like underwear? The age of the kids we're talking about being the main consumers would be at that cusp of leaving behind the 'kiddy' prints and moving towards 'grown up' things but not quite -there- yet. My Little Pony is no longer 'cool' but sparkly unicorn/mermaid themed things are definitely cool.

Honestly, I wouldn't purchase them myself even if they DID make 'em bigger but only because they don't function well enough for me to use them. Which is probably the real root cause of "They won't make them" because they can't make them EFFECTIVE without making them bulkier. And bulkier = harder to hide under clothing and that defeats the purpose of a 'hidden' bedwetting diaper.

We actually bought some for a niece of mine who constantly had issues peeing herself when she would sleep over. The kids slept in sleeping bags on the carpet and we'd have to pull out the carpet cleaner every morning. So my mother bought some for her. They 'kind of' worked, she'd still leak sometimes, but it was better than having to wash everything and clean the carpet.

And a lot of people -don't- know about the youth sizes, I know I didn't realize there were youth sizes for the longest time. Just either "baby" or "old person".

So what I'm saying is, I suppose, that it would be NICE if they did make them a little bigger. But I'm not holding my breath. XD

hey cuddle i turned down a sleep over just the other day cause of my double ic and only the one person knew of it but the rest the her family did not ( she was a past aide for me) it made me have cold chills thinking about it i talk a lot about wanting to do fun things but when it comes down to doing them i chicken out cause of ic and the need for help doing changes when out for more than 3 hrs or do depending on drink intake i am also wheel chair bound

CuddleWoozle said:

I'm talking that they can make a different print, dude, not the 'baby' prints. I sure as hell didn't want to wear 'adult diapers' when I was smaller. An IC kid hasn't got much of a choice, but I dunno, maybe they'd actually LIKE something if it looked cool? I'm talking about stuff that tweens would like, maybe subtle patterns or something so they'd actually pass as underwear? So, no, I'm not actually coming at it from an ABDL standpoint, I'm actively trying to think about the kids themselves. What would be better? Plain white? Printed to look like underwear? The age of the kids we're talking about being the main consumers would be at that cusp of leaving behind the 'kiddy' prints and moving towards 'grown up' things but not quite -there- yet. My Little Pony is no longer 'cool' but sparkly unicorn/mermaid themed things are definitely cool.

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Just for reference a 14 year old boy that was in the 80th percentile or lower for waist and weight would correctly fit in L/XL Goodnites. A 14 year old girl in the 69th percentile or lower for hips and weight would also fit in L/XL Goodnites. And to be blunt if a child is above those percentile's then other products will probably fir and function better. As mentioned before a product for a larger child would have to either sacrifice discreetness or effectiveness. If the product is the same thickness then it won't be absorbent enough for a larger child or adult and if it is thicker it will be more noticeable.
Out of curiosity what ages do you consider to be tweens?

I've seen a bunch of people ask that question (will P&G and/or KC make larger size diapers?), and many people reply that it would not make business sense to do so. I would argue the opposite. If there is a demand, (older kids/teens still needing diapers) chances are that it will get filled somehow. Since P&G isn't, parents would probably turn to companies like Northshore or even abdl companies for a product that better fits their needs, and P&G would lose profit in this case. However, I can see why P&G would be hesitant to enter a "weird" adult diaper market (fear of losing reputation). Bottom line, they are probably losing money instead by not offering larger sized goodnites.

SorcerorElf said:

Bottom line, they are probably losing money instead by not offering larger sized goodnites.

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You are entitled to your opinion but K-C and P&G have done studies, and large companies can't be bothered to fill niche markets, any potential profits they do realize would be negligible in all reality. K-C grosses about 25-30 billion US dollars per year while P&G nets about 15-20 billon per year.
Consider that 82% of P&G's global diaper revenue last year came from their Pampers diapers, not including Easy-Ups (16%) or Underjams (2%). Pampers had about 9 billion dollars in profits but their expenditures/operating costs weren't listed. Doing some math here are the profits for each:
Baby diapers-$7,380,000,000
Easy Ups/Training Pants-$1,440,000,000
Underjams-$180,000,000

So if you think about it one hundred eighty million dollars is pretty insignificant compared to seven billion dollars. Adding a larger size may be barely feasible for P&G since they sold off their adult line but even then it is probably not worth the time, effort and risk of such a venture. Anything less than a billion dollars is peanuts to them and negligible.

I could not find specific numbers for K-C, Huggies, Pull-Ups and Goodnites so my apologies for using P&G and Pampers.

The problem with "Just get depends" and "It would overlap" and "hurt the bottom line" is the fact that, depends suck. I can put on goodnites and soak them twice before leaking. I can put on a depend and need to change because I'm leaking WITHOUT EVEN PEEING OR ANYTHING. I think the reason people want bigger sized goodnites (And bigger sized things like huggies, pampers, underjams, so on and so forth) is because they're just better. The quality is better, the materials are better, the capacity is better. It's just better. Most adult diapers you can buy in a store are the equivelant of putting a regular A4 sheet of printer paper between your legs, and honestly the printer paper would probably work better. Thats what these people are trying to convey to P&G and Kimberly Clark. They just can't be bothered. And as for the argument that "People should just do research and buy other products" That's all well and good having to wait on shipping for your specialty item from an incontinence distributor if you run out by accident or something happens. What are you suppose to do? Go without protection for a day or two? That's why people want these in the store.

Tweens generally = kids between the ages of ten and 12. Any older and they're teens.

And yeah, it would be nice to be able to pick something up at a store. :\ But seeing what was posted about decades old packages of diapers, maybe people just don't get them often enough for the stores to be bothered with carrying them?

CuddleWoozle said:

And yeah, it would be nice to be able to pick something up at a store. :\ But seeing what was posted about decades old packages of diapers, maybe people just don't get them often enough for the stores to be bothered with carrying them?

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I kind of think people don't realize that there are better incontinence products out there, beyond what Walmart has on their shelves. I mean, ''Depends'' is pretty much synonymous with adult diapers, even though very few of us more knowledgeable folk would consider them a good product. Yet, there they are, and people are buying them.

If your kid's wetting the bed, chances are you're headed to the store and are going to find GoodNites. I don't think many people's first thoughts are going to be to go to a medical-supply store or look online. The quickest, cheapest solution is going to be the winner.

We all know good padding can get pretty pricey, and the average person who's new to incontinence and doesn't know much about diapers is simply going to grab the cheapest pack.

Honestly with the obesity epidemic and kids (and everyone really) getting fatter, it's only a matter of time IMO.

mtdl88 said:

Honestly with the obesity epidemic and kids (and everyone really) getting fatter, it's only a matter of time IMO.

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I have to agree. I saw a 2-year old that required adult diapers because of their size. He was huge 50lb and was using an adult diaper.

People You saying It not worth it making diapers at that range. We are at an age that everything can be sent to you to your home. A store 10 years ago. The argument the bottom line would matters. Today is not so much.

Today. Companies can go %2 Kids over 12 need larger goodnight or diapers because of IC or bedwetting. and Make %3. It might not sell it all. But they can adjust the amount that needed over time and still makes a good profit over time.

AddyShadows said:

And as for the argument that "People should just do research and buy other products" That's all well and good having to wait on shipping for your specialty item from an incontinence distributor if you run out by accident or something happens. What are you suppose to do? Go without protection for a day or two? That's why people want these in the store.

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Well, that's where responsibility comes in to play. There's plenty of websites that offer subscription services that also give you discounts to sign up. There's technology to give you reminders. Yes, mistakes happen, but then, you learn from that.

Also, it's not just KC and P&G, but stores don't want specially items that would most likely sit on a shelf and collect dust. There's lots of stores that stopped selling adult diapers because of that. I also think people have adapted to online stores, or go through insurance or Medicaid that give people what they want to.

I'm not against having bigger Goodnites, if anything I'd like to see them bring back the originals.

There's just not a need for them to do it. No there's not a large enough demand.

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