USA Militarizes Mexican Border. Mexico Strikes Back.

[PCPilot]

Thanks for making my point about rationalization.

I'm not rationalizing anything. I'm merely pointing out legal reality. Immigration law is not criminal law, the procedures aren't criminal, the standard of proof isn't criminal. You may not like it, you may not agree with it, but that is reality. Substituting your own opinions for reality is not a healthy or particularly effective way to go through life.

Populists, like Trump, attract losers. It's clear because he talks about winning and being successful so much (people who are already winning and being successful don't need to be told what it looks like. they already know.) And the reason why Trump supporters are by and large losers is that society has changed over the past 50 years away from simple tasks to complicated systems that cannot be easily reduced to a simple slogan or two. They are systems that operate based on the laws of the universe, which aren't subject to our own individual opinions and beliefs. Attempting to navigate through such a world with solution making skills more appropriate to being the assistant manager at an Interstate gas bar... no wonder the coastal elites have made out like bandits.

When I first started in my career, I was amazed that I could make six figures simply by being able to string three or four complicated systems together and predict the changes in system 4 based on the inputs in system 1. To most of the people I worked with, what I was doing was akin to magic. In these 50 years we've forced people to deal with complicated systems with effects over many years. Most people can barely balance monthly expenditures in a check book, yet now they are on the hook for saving for a retirement 40 years ago (and it's not surprising people are abysmal at it).

But no matter what, you cannot succeed by reducing things to a simple slogan or rejecting the world in favor of what you feel it should be. Saying we should "build a wall" or "light up a few truckloads" to fix illegal immigration is no different than breaking your computer when it has an error message - it may be personally satisfying, but not effective. And this is why populists, like their supporters, rarely succeed. Their slogans are an emotional sugar high but their solutions don't actually work. They can temporarily blame others for their failing (Trump's greatest Cabinet ever is now a bunch of idiots it seems) but ultimately they will fail and be deserted.

How did open borders work out for the indians?

How did open borders work for 19th Century America?

[howiebabe]

I agree, illegally entering the U.S. is not in itself a criminal act. However, we are told that most of these immigrants are here for work. In order to work legally in the U.S. you need an ID and a SSAN. So they get a fake ID and SSAN and using those are criminal acts. Or their employer ignores the ID requirement and then they have committed a criminal act.

On the other hand, if all the immigrant does is go on welfare, then they are only committing civil acts and taking dollars from other poor people.

You can't have it both ways. Either they are here to work and must be involved in criminal fraud or they are here to take advantage of our social welfare system and are then a pure drain on U.S. resources.

[stanfordgirl]

I think you are using too big of a brush to the point that it’s misleading and not true. People who enter this country do commit a crime and while it’s only a misdemeanor it’s a crime nonetheless. People who enter this country on a valid VISA etc then overstay that VIDA do not commit a crime and are dealt with civilly and usually deported. The ones that make the news are the people who enter illegally (crime) then are deported and resented again (crime -felony) then murder someone or rape someone or kill someone driving drunk. When I was in Oregon this past fall an illegal alien had just killed a woman and all 4 of her small children after what is his 3rd DUII and as I recall everytime they deported him he would come back (sort of like herpes I would imagine) so while immigration law finds its genesis in civil law there are some far reaching and important criminal statutes that can lock someone up for 10 years and more for violating our immigration laws