Diaper wearing for ABDL is not a choice but a psychological need

Hey all,
I think this has been discussed somewhere before but I want to add my thoughts on the issue.
I read a comment earlier that sparked me to write this.

The person (who will remain anonymous) seemed to focus on the point that diaper wearing is a just a choice and nowhere near comparable to LGBT. It may be true that we are not as marginalized as much as perhaps LGBT people but I would say that is rather because we are relatively unknown.

I get the impression if a primary/elementary school teacher was outed as ABDL (AB especially) they would be fired from the backlash by parents or ignorant institution thinking they were a pedophile (kind of like gays were thought of in the past). Think about it and you'll realize that is a very real possibility. In fact we can see a perfect example of disparagement and pedophile accusations received from the brick and mortar Tykables store.

The word "choice" annoys me as if it we were choosing to wear diapers and should never be remotely compared to LGBT. I disagree and here is my argument:

1. My earliest memory of wanting diapers occurs back in preschool being 4 or 5.
- Many gay people also make similar statements of being interested in the same sex when they were also at a young age.

2. If diaper wearing is a choice then it's a choice in the same way gay people "choose" to get married to live their lives happily. Gay people don't need to get married or have gay relationships to survive. Far from it, give them food, water and shelter and they'll survive like everyone else. It's true we don't need diapers to survive but wearing makes our lives happier and true to who we are and being able to express that is not a choice but a need. Both a gay person and ABDL person able to express themselves are psychological needs and make our lives happier because of it.

3. Similarities with LGBT and ABDL with anxiety, stress and depression.
- If you think that isn't the case then why does this forum exist? It's a support forum with links to suicide prevention and helplines. Being ABDL can add unnecessary stress compared to non-ABDLs so suggesting it can influence depression is not absurd and I am sure there are many who have experienced it just doing a quick google search with those terms.

This all being said classifying it as a psychological need and not a choice does not mean I want special treatment or disability handicaps but the same kind of respect that people who are LGBT receive. LGBT people are not belittled by mainstream media and told it's just a choice (unless you're a bigot). So why should we be told it's just a choice and belittled in comparison to LGBT people? We both didn't choose our desires.

Labeling it a choice I believe devalues the importance and impact it has on our lives. It angers me that people would think being ABDL is a breeze in the park compared to LGBT, never an issue and as simple to stop as choosing what groceries to buy each week.

I never chose to like diapers it wasn't a choice so in consequence my diaper wearing is also not a choice. Being DL is not something I can give up like choosing not to eat a certain food or what to have for dinner. So people who think it's just a choice I ask of you to stop treating it so.

I hope I have made my points clear enough and I am interested in what others have to say.

I'm on mobile and can't do the embed-a-quote thing, so bear with me as I respectfully disagree with parts of what you've said in weird formatting.

1. There are people who don't fit the narrative in both of these. I for one didn't realize I was queer until my teens, and didn't know I was a DL until about a year ago, and I'm 31—and there was no memory of wanting them in my past. There is no universal narrative for either group.

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2. Gay people don't need to get married or have gay relationships to survive. Far from it, give them food, water and shelter and they'll survive like everyone else.

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So, we should be happy not being allowed to have these things, or with laws on the books criminalising it? That's a hollow existence. That's not "surviving like everyone else" because it's dangling a basic human right in front of our faces and telling us "oh, you don't NEED it, can't you just be happy with what you have?" That, I think, is most certainly not living life everyone else.

3.1. And I'm speaking as a queer DL here: I'm fully aware that it can influence mental health, or I wouldn't be here.

3.2. «LGBT people are not belittled by mainstream media and told it's just a choice (unless you're a bigot).»

Yeah, we still are belittled in the media. And people from parents to pastors still say it's a choice. My own thinks I up and decided to be queer and trans and still thinks I might "change my mind" given incentive. The southern black church community in my experience is especially bad about this.

3.3. "Labeling it a choice I believe devalues the importance and impact it has on our lives. It angers me that people would think being ABDL is a breeze in the park compared to LGBT, never an issue and as simple to stop as choosing what groceries to buy each week."

Acknowledged, but my beef is with people who say it's "just like being gay/trans." People have been killed for the assumption of being either, based on a look's judgement. No one has done that to a suspected ABDL—most people don't suspect such a thing, that is of course unless one's been telling everyone about it who will listen. There's no such thing as the "ABDL panic" defense, where a person would get away with murder because they suspected the other person was ABDL—but gay/trans panic defenses exist. That's the kind of thing that puts the two on different levels.

Yes, society can be more open-minded than it is now. But trying to co-opt or ride another struggle's coattails isn't how to do it.

That's my 2¢ on it.

OmiOMy said:

1. There are people who don't fit the narrative in both of these. I for one didn't realize I was queer until my teens, and didn't know I was a DL until about a year ago, and I'm 31—and there was no memory of wanting them in my past. There is no universal narrative for either group.

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Thanks for your input here's my response. Firstly I never said there was a universal story I was merely pointing out the similarities between the two. The brain decides of it's own will what it desires it's not controllable and that goes for diapers too as you've also just said.

OmiOMy said:

So, we should be happy not being allowed to have these things, or with laws on the books criminalising it? That's a hollow existence. That's not "surviving like everyone else" because it's dangling a basic human right in front of our faces and telling us "oh, you don't NEED it, can't you just be happy with what you have?" That, I think, is most certainly not living life everyone else.

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You see that's the point if it's choice then you wouldn't be allowed those things like marriage and people would say "it's just a lifestyle choice". No not a choice for being gay or for wanting diapers. If it is choice it allows someone to say "oh you don't NEED diapers, can't you just be happy without them?". This is something that would mostly crop up in relationships/family or even friends if they found out. That I think is most certainly not living life like everyone else. Because if it were any other thing that was "normal" people would have no problem with it.

OmiOMy said:

Yeah, we still are belittled in the media. And people from parents to pastors still say it's a choice. My own thinks I up and decided to be queer and trans and still thinks I might "change my mind" given incentive. The southern black church community in my experience is especially bad about this.

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And those would be the bigots I mentioned. But for the majority you have the support of the media. Which was my point. I am sorry to hear your other doesn't understand. I hope they do eventually see.

OmiOMy said:

Acknowledged, but my beef is with people who say it's "just like being gay/trans." People have been killed for the assumption of being either, based on a look's judgement. No one has done that to a suspected ABDL—most people don't suspect such a thing, that is of course unless one's been telling everyone about it who will listen. There's no such thing as the "ABDL panic" defense, where a person would get away with murder because they suspected the other person was ABDL—but gay/trans panic defenses exist. That's the kind of thing that puts the two on different levels.

Yes, society can be more open-minded than it is now. But trying to co-opt or ride another struggle's coattails isn't how to do it.

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Well it is "like" it in terms of similarity not exactly the same but yes comparable. I watch the MLP documentary and it showed Bronies being bullied with one even having his car wrecked by hate groups. And that was just MLP. Imagine if AB became as big? You really think some of those crimes you mentioned couldn't possibly occur?

As you said most people don't suspect a thing which is my point. The reason you probably haven't seen all these crimes is because no one knows. Which is why my argument at the beginning listed the outrage against the Tykables store. To show a small scenario where ABDL was no longer seen in their community as an "internet thing" or unknown but now an "in your neighborhood" thing.

I also agree that "riding another coattails" isn't how to do it and most certainly not asking to lump us onto the end of LGBT.

When you say "but gay/trans panic defenses exist" what about Trans? Or Bisexual laws? Queer laws in defense of murder? If there's none does that mean that Transgender, Bisexual, Queer issues are not on the same level? Should they be dropped from LGBT? Or LGBTQ?

Look I am not saying LGBT are exactly the same as ABDL because they're not but they are similar they do have similarities and can be compared in certain circumstances as I listed in my first post.

Now my argument is that diapers for ABDL is not a choice, not a "lifestyle" but what our brains have decided for us.

Anyway that's my take on this.

I agree with everything the OP states. I too was ABDL as a preschooler. Yes, there may be some cases especially in some countries where gays are still treated worse than ABDLs but they also have legal protection in a lot of countries that ABDL don't. I feel the same about both groups. I believe it is a private matter. What I mean is, I have no problem shaking hands with Joe in church and him introducing himself as gay or ABDL. I respect that person equally to the one who introduces himself as a doctor or pastor. However, because both ABDL and LGBT are sexual identities, neither are free to share more details like what they are wearing or who they are sleeping with and what positions. The doctor or the preacher is welcome to share more details but the ABDL or LGBT is not unless invited to do so. Discretion is important to both that they aren't revealing the details whether it is an untucked shirt or a photo with their lover in a suggestive pose. Society at large though may not have the same feelings I do so outcomes may vary.

Sent from my LGL31L using Tapatalk

I wind up rather unhelpfully on both sides of the fence in this. I agree they are not the same but I don't think that's required in order to compare things. Why would we only compare things that are the same? I think some of us are affected as strongly or more so by our ABDL desires as our orientations. For others, it's less pressing. In my case, I'd say it's nearly fundamental to my sexuality but that is not welcome publicly. I can't imagine that it will be in my lifetime and I'm conflicted as to whether I'd want it to be. It was definitely not a choice in any conscious way for me; I'd have made it go away so many times if I could. I wouldn't . I can't dismiss those urges but for whatever reason, it doesn't seem to be disasterous if I don't indulge. Fantasies are enough but wearing is better. I can't say that for other ABDLs, it's just my own experience.

I like these better as conversations than rants. If we're just ranting it's easy to disregard the other side and miss the nuance of what they're saying (inelegantly, perhaps). Someone who thinks being an ABDL is the same as LGBT may need to better define their understanding of both. I think it's more productive to ask why they'd think they're the same rather than shout them down.

Trevor said:

I like these better as conversations than rants. If we're just ranting it's easy to disregard the other side and miss the nuance of what they're saying (inelegantly, perhaps). Someone who thinks being an ABDL is the same as LGBT may need to better define their understanding of both. I think it's more productive to ask why they'd think they're the same rather than shout them down.

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+1

Well said. Empathy goes a long way.

SweetPrincess said:

Hey all,
I think this has been discussed somewhere before but I want to add my thoughts on the issue.
I read a comment earlier that sparked me to write this.

The person (who will remain anonymous) seemed to focus on the point that diaper wearing is a just a choice and nowhere near comparable to LGBT. It may be true that we are not as marginalized as much as perhaps LGBT people but I would say that is rather because we are relatively unknown.

I get the impression if a primary/elementary school teacher was outed as ABDL (AB especially) they would be fired from the backlash by parents or ignorant institution thinking they were a pedophile (kind of like gays were thought of in the past). Think about it and you'll realize that is a very real possibility. In fact we can see a perfect example of disparagement and pedophile accusations received from the brick and mortar Tykables store.

The word "choice" annoys me as if it we were choosing to wear diapers and should never be remotely compared to LGBT. I disagree and here is my argument:

1. My earliest memory of wanting diapers occurs back in preschool being 4 or 5.
- Many gay people also make similar statements of being interested in the same sex when they were also at a young age.

2. If diaper wearing is a choice then it's a choice in the same way gay people "choose" to get married to live their lives happily. Gay people don't need to get married or have gay relationships to survive. Far from it, give them food, water and shelter and they'll survive like everyone else. It's true we don't need diapers to survive but wearing makes our lives happier and true to who we are and being able to express that is not a choice but a need. Both a gay person and ABDL person able to express themselves are psychological needs and make our lives happier because of it.

3. Similarities with LGBT and ABDL with anxiety, stress and depression.
- If you think that isn't the case then why does this forum exist? It's a support forum with links to suicide prevention and helplines. Being ABDL can add unnecessary stress compared to non-ABDLs so suggesting it can influence depression is not absurd and I am sure there are many who have experienced it just doing a quick google search with those terms.

This all being said classifying it as a psychological need and not a choice does not mean I want special treatment or disability handicaps but the same kind of respect that people who are LGBT receive. LGBT people are not belittled by mainstream media and told it's just a choice (unless you're a bigot). So why should we be told it's just a choice and belittled in comparison to LGBT people? We both didn't choose our desires.

Labeling it a choice I believe devalues the importance and impact it has on our lives. It angers me that people would think being ABDL is a breeze in the park compared to LGBT, never an issue and as simple to stop as choosing what groceries to buy each week.

I never chose to like diapers it wasn't a choice so in consequence my diaper wearing is also not a choice. Being DL is not something I can give up like choosing not to eat a certain food or what to have for dinner. So people who think it's just a choice I ask of you to stop treating it so.

I hope I have made my points clear enough and I am interested in what others have to say.

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My thoughts exactly .
We are not identical but yes we are similar in what we are getting from others.
I felt guilt, shame , self-loathing , depression even Thoughts of not living.
Asked why I'm this way for years.
Bullied fired black balled because some co worker broke into my locked suitcase even threatened to pound me.
It's very much a mental imprint that's me at 6or 7 I wanted pampers .

I think we do a disservice by categorizing ABDL or homosexuality as just one thing and saying it is or isn't like the other. These things vary by person, sometimes quite a lot. Some people are attracted to others of the same gender, but also have a number of different kinks or fetishes of varying degrees of importance to them, some do not. Same thing for some people attracted to the opposite gender. Some people have very strong sex drives, others have relatively weak or infrequent ones. Some ABDLs only feel like they need to wear diapers once a month or so, some wear 24/7, some don't even wear at all and just fantasize, and many have the frequency vary throughout their lives based on their own drives, time availability, and other interests. Some people, and I would include myself in this category, find that diapers are a necessary part of their sex lives just as much as some people find that having a person of the same gender as them to sleep with is a necessary part of their sex lives. Others do not and diapers are optional for them, or a supplement for other things.

I think what we share is a desire for acceptance. We share a desire to be able to live our lives by ourselves or with other people who agree to participate in the same sexual activities as we do without feeling afraid that something bad might happen if those activities are discovered. We might share a desire to be able to confide in friends or family without putting those relationships at risk, and we often share a desire for support in a world where others might judge us harshly or misunderstand our feelings.

I'm both LGBT and ABDL, so I feel the need to comment on the comparison between ABDL and LGBT. While I generally agree with those that say that you shouldn't compare the two, I totally see why some compare the two, and while LGBT ≠ ABDL, there are a couple things they have in common.

By far, the biggest thing they have in common, and the one thing I 100% agree with you on is the the idea that it's not a choice. It's not. ABDL is not a choice. Nobody sits around thinking saying "What should I choose as my fetish? What should I like? Oh! I got it! I'm going to have a diaper fetish! Yeah! I'd like that!". That's absurd, and honestly, kind of offensive. You don't just sit around, choosing to want to wear diapers, or be an adult baby. You can't pray away these desires. It's embedded in my brain. I didn't choose to be an ABDL, just like I didn't choose to be Bisexual. It's by far, the biggest similarity that the two have. I get that people don't want to conflate LGBT with ABDL, and I understand why. But would those who are saying that ABDL is a choose please just think about what they're saying.

The other argument people is that both ABDLs and LGBT people suffer from self loathing. Being LGBT or an ABDL can cause anxiety, depression, and a ton of stress worrying that if anyone finds out about their sexual orientation, or their ABDL desires. And I totally will agree that plenty of people, both who are LGBT, and ABDLs, have had self esteem issues suffering from this, wondered why they are broken. I know it varies from person to person, and I'd imagine this isn't the case for the vast majority of people who are Queer ABDLs, but honestly, for me at least, I had a harder time coming to grips with being an ABDL than coming to grips with realizing that I'm not straight. This goes back to the whole "It's not a choice" argument from earlier. I'd like to ask the people who argued that ABDL is a choice, "Why would anyone choose to have a diaper fetish? Why would anyone choose to go through the self loathing, the guilt, the stigmatization, and all that fun stuff that comes with realizing that one is an ABDL?".

So with those similarities, why do I disagree with the idea that we should compare LGBT and ABDL? Well, I personally don't find it productive to compare the two. But honestly, the primary reason is that Homophobia and Transphobia is systemic. It's pretty much embedded in our society. There are, as already mentioned, Gay Panic laws still on the books, same goes with Trans Panic laws. There's still employment discrimination, housing discrimination, all that bathroom law bullshit, and there is a ton of violence against LGBT folks, particularly Trans folks. Yes. I will admit that it is not sunshine and rainbows for ABDLs. I don't think its a secret that we aren't exactly liked by the public, and as mentioned, people have shown that they can spew vicious hate towards ABDLs during everything that went down with the Tykables store, and I'm against that and want that to stop. But there is so much hate, violence, and bigotry towards LGBT folks that is so embedded in our society, that there's just no comparison. I don't think I can write enough about homophobia or transphobia in one post to really go over it all. Another thing to note is that being LGBT is...more public than being an ABDL. If I wanted to go out on some date with a boyfriend, people are going to notice. Me doing...normal date stuff that a straight couple would do without even thinking about it, that gathers a lot of attention, and me and him would be subject homophobia and the judgement of bigots. Whereas, if I were to be more little, and say, go out wearing a Little Paws diaper, people aren't going to notice. To live honestly as a queer person, one would be noticed in public a lot. Just doing normal things, being a normal couple, only it's two dudes (or two chicks), instead of a guy and a girl. And they'd be subject to homophobia just for doing mundane boring couple shit. ABDL on the other hand, it's pretty private. People might be hostile towards ABDLs and hate them, but they generally aren't going to know that you're an ABDL just by living your normal life. This is the reason some people get so hostile towards anyone who compares the two. Yes, I do feel that some go too far in proving that they're not the same, by say, claiming that ABDL is a choice (It's not), and there are some comparisons. But the amount of hate, homophobia, transphobia, bullshit, etc. is not comparable to the problems of ABDLs (and this isn't to say that the depression, anxiety, self esteem issues is no big deal. I went through it, and it freaking sucks). Hope that clears up some of the reasons people are so hostile to the comparison, and my personal thoughts on the matter.

I certainly agree with SP that we maybe relatively unknown and easily could wind up with a target on our back if outed due to ignorance.

Lots of biases exist in society which means how people feel, love, associate and even what they believe can be used against you.

As many members on this site know, my mom discovered both my diapers and gay porn, and then sent me to see a shrink at a mental institution. My psychiatrist wasn't concerned about my liking diapers. He simply referred to it as infantalism, but my liking boys, and I was pretty much a boy myself at the time, was his bigger concern. This was 1970 when being gay was illegal and you were considered mentally ill. I think comparing the two has the same problem as trying to compare being AB/DL to being a minority. Yes, both can be ostracized and threatened violence by bigots and those who don't understand, but there are significant differences.

The whole world sees the color of your skin. You can't hide that. If you're gay and don't want to live as a monk, the whole world once again, sees who you're spending all your time with, and people talk. As for wearing diapers, you can do that behind closed doors, which is something most of us do, or if we do wear in public, we have clothes over our diapers. No one knows we're AB/DL.

The similarities are obvious as well. We all want to be accepted for who we are, black, white, straight, gay, non fetishes or AB/DL. So there are similarities and there are differences. In the end, we each must find our own way and what works for us.

interesting. they are both a need and a choice to many. how great the need is probably depends on the choice. its all mental be it chemical imbalance hormones. at some point need and choice become reality.

As both gay, and fond of diapers, I've seen both sides of this argument many times. Both sides have their points, but in the end, all we are fighting about is language. We are so caught up in titles and phrases that we forget what truly matters. The reality is that neither ABDL's nor anyone in the LGBT community directly chooses their likes and attractions. They are ingrained, hard-wired in ways that we simply don't understand yet. Which came earlier or which is more taboo, are questions entirely outside of the point. This isn't a victim-hood contest, it's a question of community values. We all recognize that, for many, diapers form an integral and powerful aspect of their sex life, much how a gay person feels about their own same-sex attraction. Arguing differences doesn't help at all.

So the question really is: Are we willing to accept one another as free and sexual beings, with various interests and degrees of persecution? Or are we going to gripe and complain about others stealing our "lime-light"?

Well...a paraphilia or/and a confort need, could not be comparable
to a whole sexual and sentimental orientation...

Indeed there is the similar "closet thing", and identity issue experience, but having a fetish is not the same that been part of the LGBT community.
As far as a know BDSM, fursuit fetish or latex fan for example, live their fetish along with their own orientation. It's a part of their sexuality (and sometime identity) but not the roots of it (sorry if i sound fuzzy or rude, it's not my intention, i'm not sure how to express it :/) In addition, since both hetero & gays can be ABDL (and bi, and pan and other folks); I can't help but thinking about it like a fetish (or psychologic need, or coping mechanism, or even life choice for some) rather than a sexual orientation equivalent.

Felix said:

As both gay, and fond of diapers, I've seen both sides of this argument many times. Both sides have their points, but in the end, all we are fighting about is language. We are so caught up in titles and phrases that we forget what truly matters. The reality is that neither ABDL's nor anyone in the LGBT community directly chooses their likes and attractions. They are ingrained, hard-wired in ways that we simply don't understand yet. Which came earlier or which is more taboo, are questions entirely outside of the point. This isn't a victim-hood contest, it's a question of community values. We all recognize that, for many, diapers form an integral and powerful aspect of their sex life, much how a gay person feels about their own same-sex attraction. Arguing differences doesn't help at all.

So the question really is: Are we willing to accept one another as free and sexual beings, with various interests and degrees of persecution? Or are we going to gripe and complain about others stealing our "lime-light"?

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I've been making these same points for over a decade now! Yes, absolutely, abdl is in ways similar to being gay (but not the same). It is an ingraned part of who we are. And how do I know this, like you I am similarly bisexual as well as abdl.

And yes, we have been fighting over language definitions this whole time too. A LOT of people like to throw around their compulsion/ love for diapers with incorrect language like kink or fetish. (Which isn't to say diaper kinks and fetishes don't exist- they do). That of course only sets us back for a better understanding of what this is.

Only when we are able to accurately describe who we all are, will be be able to understand ourselves and those around us.

- - - Updated - - -

neaendr said:

Well...a paraphilia or/and a confort need, could not be comparable
to a whole sexual and sentimental orientation...

Indeed there is the similar "closet thing", and identity issue experience, but having a fetish is not the same that been part of the LGBT community.
As far as a know BDSM, fursuit fetish or latex fan for example, live their fetish along with their own orientation. It's a part of their sexuality (and sometime identity) but not the roots of it (sorry if i sound fuzzy or rude, it's not my intention, i'm not sure how to express it :/) In addition, since both hetero & gays can be ABDL (and bi, and pan and other folks); I can't help but thinking about it like a fetish (or psychologic need, or coping mechanism, or even life choice for some) rather than a sexual orientation equivalent.

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I agree, but take a close look at the term paraphilia. It doesn't accurately describe abdl, but does describe a sexual diaper fetish (SD), and diaper kinks. It is better than us all being called as having a sexual dysfunction lkke we used to, but the medical community still has a long way to go before understand who and what we are. So do we for that matter.

What's that in your shopping cart, Drifter?

Let us see... Oh, you must be a lettuce head; there's a head of lettuce here. Don't worry. That's acceptable to us. Lots of people are lettuce heads (LOL).

Hmmm... Quite a few nuts here. You must be a nut lover too. So... yeah, umm... that's not really a problem, either. Seems harmless enough to us.

I see tomatoes but don't see any snack chips or candy. Are you some kind of health food freak?

Wait. There's some butter here. This is a little confusing. Don't you know butter is no good for you? Are you a closet butter eater? That would make you a hypocrite... Wouldn't it!? I'm beginning to have concerns about your mental stability.

And eggs? Mind explaining why you have eggs? Nevermind, I don't really want to know. Just go away you... you... pervert!

SweetPrincess said:

The word "choice" annoys me as if it we were choosing to wear diapers and should never be remotely compared to LGBT. I disagree...

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I agree with you 100%. The things in my silly shopping cart analogy were all choices, but most of the things in my subconscious 'comfort and desire' cart are not choices, and this is backed up pretty well by research. Even if you are not a fan of imprinting theories, like I am, psychology appears to be moving away from the idea that unusual desires have to be a psychological disorder. Maybe this is just wishful thinking but it seems these desires are being recognized more often as being the result of the same process that produces 'normal' desires; they are just less frequent.

We are judged to be straight or gay or bi, trans or cis, AB or DL or ABDL, based on things implanted by nature in our subconscious. The source of these things is all pretty much the same, but how we express these fundamental urges is undoubtedly modified by psychological factors and experience. This obviously makes for quite a variety.

Implanting subconscious desires isn't simply a binary process. I'm considered a straight male but there is no gay/straight switch in my mind that I am aware of. What I am aware of is hundreds of triggers involving feminine characteristics that are not just limited to what I see but appeal to my other senses as well. My bundle of triggers makes for a complex blend and is no doubt similar to, but not identical with, those of any other 'straight' male. I'm not consciously aware of how they got there but I am definitely aware they are there.

All the things we are comparing here are similar in origin and personal, emotional impact. They differ in practical aspects and social impact. Ignoring the obvious fundamental difference between a person and an inanimate object, it is much harder to hide a gay lover than to hide a diaper. This makes homosexuality far more likely to be a social issue. If something similar to diaper love was identified in biblical times I'm sure there would have been laws against it, and the people who engaged in that would have met the same fate as homosexuals.

For me personally, I don’t need to wear diapers. It’s more of a choice, but again that’s just me.

Drifter said:

All the things we are comparing here are similar in origin and personal, emotional impact. They differ in practical aspects and social impact. Ignoring the obvious fundamental difference between a person and an inanimate object, it is much harder to hide a gay lover than to hide a diaper. This makes homosexuality far more likely to be a social issue. If something similar to diaper love was identified in biblical times I'm sure there would have been laws against it, and the people who engaged in that would have met the same fate as homosexuals.

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They can be compared. Just because things aren't exactly the same doesn't mean they can't be compared and measure similarities.

Because there are similarities between the two that is undeniable. And to say "This makes homosexuality far more likely to be a social issue" is rather a crude and ignorant statement imo. It ignores and brushes off the real struggles that people deal with. Social issues with ABDL include but not limited to:

Marriage: if I get married pretty sure my wife would want to know that I like diapers and her acceptance is determined on our relationship. If she can't accept then I will break up with her or she'll break up with me. That to me sounds like a pretty important social thing.

Childhood development: Or how about the fact as a child I could ask for any toy in in store and not a question raised but if I repeatedly ask for diapers I was never taken seriously just laughed at as I was when I was younger. That clearly isn't a social issue *sigh*.

Family and Friends: Or how about having to hide diapers/Pacifiers/bottles from my friends and family because if they find out they could shame me and hurt me or leave me? Not a social issue clearly.

Optional Extras! (sarcasm): Being accused a pedophile. People have committed suicide because of just the accusation and only after heir death found the accusation to be entirely false. Because being AB has never led anyone to that conclusion before. Totally not a social issue.

So sorry but I cannot agree. I don't care if being gay is "more of a social issue" being ABDL still has large impacts on our social lives. Impacts that are similar in ways, others not but most certainly not palmed off as something little like the way you've described.

Drifter said:

Ignoring the obvious fundamental difference between a person and an inanimate object, it is much harder to hide a gay lover than to hide a diaper.

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I am sorry but have you tried hiding a case full of diapers in 1 room? How about washing cloth diapers, baby style clothes and hanging them out to dry without your roommates seeing? Or how about washing plastic sheets? Pacifier and baby bottles? Not like I can just leave the pacifiers or bottles drying on the washing up rack can I!

What about the little princess dolls I sleep with at night? Can't really hide that and so my friends already know about that because it's unavoidable. So yes it is very much a social thing as it requires so much work to avoid it being one. And all this secrecy, it wears you down so that it is almost like hiding an extra boyfriend living in your closest.

SweetPrincess said:

They can be compared. Just because things aren't exactly the same doesn't mean they can't be compared and measure similarities.

Because there are similarities between the two that is undeniable. And to say "This makes homosexuality far more likely to be a social issue" is rather a crude and ignorant statement imo. It ignores and brushes off the real struggles that people deal with. Social issues with ABDL include but not limited to:


So sorry but I cannot agree. I don't care if being gay is "more of a social issue" being ABDL still has large impacts on our social lives. Impacts that are similar in ways, others not but most certainly not palmed off as something little like the way you've described.

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Seems kind of funny you can't agree with me agreeing with you. I must not have written my response very clearly. Sorry.

You and I, and everyone else here, understand the serious social backlash we would be exposed to if our private lives became public knowledge. I didn't see any need to expand on that.

I agree with you that we didn't choose to have these desires. I have been looking for and finding information about this for over 50 years.

I agree we can discuss the differences and similarities among the various 'strange' desires people can have and the problems that arise because of them. Some people will be offended by comparisons, but no one is forced to take part in this discussion. Actually, the people who are offended can offer valuable input to the discussion, if they can keep it civil.

SweetPrincess said:

They can be compared. Just because things aren't exactly the same doesn't mean they can't be compared and measure similarities.

Because there are similarities between the two that is undeniable. And to say "This makes homosexuality far more likely to be a social issue" is rather a crude and ignorant statement imo. It ignores and brushes off the real struggles that people deal with. Social issues with ABDL include but not limited to:

Marriage: if I get married pretty sure my wife would want to know that I like diapers and her acceptance is determined on our relationship. If she can't accept then I will break up with her or she'll break up with me. That to me sounds like a pretty important social thing.

Childhood development: Or how about the fact as a child I could ask for any toy in in store and not a question raised but if I repeatedly ask for diapers I was never taken seriously just laughed at as I was when I was younger. That clearly isn't a social issue *sigh*.

Family and Friends: Or how about having to hide diapers/Pacifiers/bottles from my friends and family because if they find out they could shame me and hurt me or leave me? Not a social issue clearly.

Optional Extras! (sarcasm): Being accused a pedophile. People have committed suicide because of just the accusation and only after heir death found the accusation to be entirely false. Because being AB has never led anyone to that conclusion before. Totally not a social issue.

So sorry but I cannot agree. I don't care if being gay is "more of a social issue" being ABDL still has large impacts on our social lives. Impacts that are similar in ways, others not but most certainly not palmed off as something little like the way you've described.



I am sorry but have you tried hiding a case full of diapers in 1 room? How about washing cloth diapers, baby style clothes and hanging them out to dry without your roommates seeing? Or how about washing plastic sheets? Pacifier and baby bottles? Not like I can just leave the pacifiers or bottles drying on the washing up rack can I!

What about the little princess dolls I sleep with at night? Can't really hide that and so my friends already know about that because it's unavoidable. So yes it is very much a social thing as it requires so much work to avoid it being one. And all this secrecy, it wears you down so that it is almost like hiding an extra boyfriend living in your closest.

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This is dead on correct. I keep seeing people confusing similar with same. These terms are not interchangable, and have very different meanings. As example.

ABDL is in some ways similar to being gay.
ABDL is NOT the same as being gay.