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Thread: "****phobic and Hateful"

  1. #1

    Default "****phobic and Hateful"

    Bear with me folks, this is more an open rant then anything else.

    I was reading an article by Huff-po, in which a transgendered author was pointing out all the ways in which Cisgendered individuals attempting to support or help the transgendered cause are considered transphobic and hateful. for instance, dont make it a point of having transgendered author's books in your home? music? movies? your hateful and afraid.

    ((To be clear, the rest of this deals more with the phrases *****phobic and hateful, then being addressed at any one group. it could be abdlphobic for all I care, and I would still feel this way.))

    I've always had an issue with the terms ((insert something here))phobic and hateful.

    It does not matter if it is a cause I support or not, frequently, I find myself empathetic with the cause in question. ((do you see a but coming? cause it is.))

    BUT, I also strongly feel that the terms phobic, or fear induced, as an explanation for peoples opinions or actions is a bit weak. I can safely say that I am not afraid of individuals who are different.

    I don't feel that the assumption of fear behind a person's thoughts, emotions, actions is a valid practice. in fact it's closing the door to communication to assume the source of other's opinions.

    Making an Ass out of you AND me.

    I also feel strongly that phrases such as hate filled, or hateful, are not applicable to such things as the following.


    "Do you laugh at jokes like Trump being made up with makeup? Do you realize this is transphobic?"

    Taken directly from the huff-po article, AGAIN using this as an example, not attempting to make this an issue of transgender.

    I like a good laugh as much as the next. Infact one of the key pieces of human nature and humor is the unexpected. but I also firmly believe we're on the wrong course of logical thought assuming that someone who laughs at A political figure being lampooned is "hateful". I dont laugh as much as I would like, it would be nice to not worry if I am allowed to laugh, without my laughter being taken as malicious or some fear induced inane hysteria.

    I frequently will correct individuals around me, when they use phrases like:

    "I hate so-and-so she is such"

    "Oh man I HATE that"

    I can be heard reminding them that "Hate" is a very strong word, perhaps they mean irritated, or dislike.

    Using the word hate casually is misrepresenting yourself, your opinions and emotions to those around you..


    so..what is the attraction behind using phobic and hateful as terms to shame groups of people into compliance a particular view of the world, or the behavior that should be expected in it?

    Is it just me or are these words losing their truth and effect? are they shutting doors for communication?


    In the end, I think individuals and their causes can benefit from figuring out that the if someone does not tow the line 100% with your view of how the world should function, what is or is not acceptable, we need to use a little moderation in how we represent themselves to themselves. Where is the FEAR?
    Last edited by MommyandMattling; 27-Jul-2017 at 18:49.

  2. #2

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    i'm transgendered, due genetical differences, also i'm lightly mental disabled.

    Carestaff are a bunch of phobics,... they think it has to do with my mental state or in their opinion lack of mental state...
    abdl phobia also, they dont understand, that people can have a wish for a doll because they are hurting because unwanted infirtility or a way to cuddle..

    i'm very openminded, and i really love it, everything what involves children is a big NO, and also violence towards people..

    making this world better starts by education and acceptation

  3. #3

    Default

    The problem, MommyandMattling, is the word "transphobic" itself. Most cis people would not acknowledge that they fear anything at all about trans people, and the truth is that they don't. What they fear is that their world is changing. It isn't the simple black and white, A and B, male and female matrix that they always thought it was, and the more evidence that they are forced to confront of this uncomfortable fact the more their minds rebel against it. What we fear most is what we do not understand; it has always been thus. So psychiatry buts a sweet little label on it and calls it a phobia and that's that. Except it isn't: it's a hell of a lot more complicated. They don't fear us; they hate us because they blame us for tearing down some of the last remaining vestiges of their simplistic binary worldview. When they see us or read about us they are reminded that life is more complex than they want it to be, and they detest that. So they lash out at us. "Transphobia" is an invented legal defense for assholes who beat up innocent women because they happened to have been assigned male at birth. If the English language worked better, we'd be able to combine the prefix "mis" (hatred) with "trans" and end up with something like "mistransogy," but sadly it doesn't seem that flexible so we are stuck with the entirely inadequate "transphobia."

    Which leads us to the article you read and reacted to.

    Cisgender (not cisgendered) people who support transgender (not transgendered) people are great. Their numbers are growing every year. Sadly, they do not include the current leaders of this country, who are a bunch of Neanderthals determined to take us back to the 1950s, or maybe the 1850s, but what can you do? They won't be in office forever, and if there is anything remaining of the country and the world when they leave--and iffy proposition--we'll try to pick things up from there. But although this particular column went overboard in some of its statements, it was not so far off the mark as you imagine it to be. Its author is angry. We are all angry in this current climate. Just ten months ago we were on top of the world, living in a land where freedom and the future were looking like guarantees. Now, we are living in a bizarro world dystopia where tens of millions are about to be denuded of their healthcare, where LGBT people are being scapegoated so that Trump can get the eyes of the world off of his scandals, where impeachment seems less of an if then a when but will lead us to a new dystopia that might resemble Handmaid's Tale, being led by the failed Indiana governor whose sole claim to fame is his staunch anti-LBGT, anti-women stances, a man who would never have been re-elected in his own state yet suddenly seems a viable alternative to a maniac who is leading us all down a rabbit hole to God knows where.

    This columnist declared that you shouldn't laugh about Trump being made up because it's against trans people? That's over the top: go ahead and laugh at his make-up. It's absurd and ridiculous. You're not laughing at it because he's a man wearing make-up; you're laughing because it's such a god-awful job and he apparently believes it looks good. The columnist thinks you need to have art by trans people in your home to be a supporter? Hogwash. Many if not most people have no art at all in their homes. But hey: if they have a copy of "The Matrix" or anything by Against Me! then that'll do to satisfy her anyway. But you didn't really represent the whole message of her column, which ends thus:


    You likely won’t get Trump to stop being terrible. But you can look in the mirror and be better.The more people that take up this work to be better, the more people that truly support trans equality and justice = the less transphobia, transantagonism, and anti-trans laws and policies will come into our world. Until they are squashed for good.

    As a trans non-binary person myself, I am not above self-reflection and bettering myself when it comes to dismantling the transphobia and transantagonism I was taught growing up.

    That is to say: I have work to do, too. Will you join me?
    She acknowledges that she too has a lot of work to do in this regard. She wishes that the daily microaggressions trans people are subject to would stop. She wishes that cis people would acknowledge their privilege, stating that cis LGB people she knows are some of the worst offenders. In my experience, all of this is true and denying it won't make it go away. We can all work harder to make our world a better place. It begins with understanding that hatred really does exist and then seeing what we might be able to do, along with what we desire to do, to fight it. Trump is an egotistical jerk. I'm not even sure he is a bigot at all: he is a person who does whatever he needs to to protect himself, and if that means throwing anyone and everyone under the bus, so be it. At the rate at which he has changed his political beliefs, I doubt he actually even has any. He just "believes" whatever is most expedient at the moment for him to believe. If it became expedient tomorrow for him to be a full supporter of LGBT rights, he'd suddenly look like Obama. So I'm not talking about him: I'm taking about the true believers, like Pence, like the real haters who want to see us either all dead or all back in some closet so they can return to their little make believe binary worlds.

    It's not enough to rail against the TG activists who overstate their cases because they are angry at current affairs. No: this is a time for doing​. Or not doing. As someone in a movie once said, there is no try.

  4. #4

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    Transphobic or anything-phobic (except for real phobias) just means you somewhat reject the idea of the subject. Yes, the meaning of the word "phobia" is not being used appropriately here, but I think everyone knows what it means. However, some people are really phobic towards gay men...because they think they're sexual animals that will attack at the first sign of a nice man or because they think all gay men have aids and will give it to you by talking to them...I hope that this only applies to a really small percentage of folks, though.
    And hate is by origin a strong word but became more and more flexible in modern times. I can hate my neighbor although I would of course help him if there was a serious reason. I hate people who behave like dicks in traffic but I would jump out of my car if they caused an accident because of their driving. I wouldn't do that for someone I truly hate, like that guy who threatened my family once or that neighbor that shot our dog.

  5. #5

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    I'll be polemic, but simple:

    I respect whatever anyone do, untill it becomes limiting myself. I've not any obligation to share, OK ?

    And if someone touch me without my authorization, after the second warning there'll be not the third one, I've to defend myself.

  6. #6

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    If transgenders didn't have their share of bigoted idiots they wouldn't be human. Transgenders are nothing special. They are just human beings like everyone else.

    Hatred and bigotry seem to arise naturally out of the human tendency to classify people according to some single characteristic they possess. If a person sees humanity as being divided into transgender and cisgender he/she is probably too biased to be of any real value in solving the social issues around gender identity.
    Last edited by Drifter; 30-Jul-2017 at 17:40.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by MommyandMattling View Post
    so..what is the attraction behind using phobic and hateful as terms to shame groups of people into compliance a particular view of the world, or the behavior that should be expected in it?

    Is it just me or are these words losing their truth and effect? are they shutting doors for communication?
    Don't get your wires crossed. There is a difference between hate vs unfamiliarity.

    I find it confusing how a dissenting group opinion holds such value in persuading or convincing those that they are attacking to feel they have to respond to such negativity.

    There is the analogy of the campfire in the distance: Those with instinct steer clear of it, while those who are curious are drawn to it.

    Summary: Steer your own path. Don't let the negativity of others slow your course. It's a wide world outside of mental constrictions or path barriers. Misconception will always be there but it's always up to the wayfarer to find their company.

  8. #8

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    There's reality, and there's media.

    We should have all figured out by now that there are far too many media outlets competing for eyes and clicks. Lies, half truths, inflammatory language, anything to get a click and maybe even response that will get other people to click.
    .
    Last edited by Maxx; 07-Aug-2017 at 13:52.

  9. #9

    Default

    dear all,

    i'm transgender, and to me the following happens, most of the people who doesn't understand, react phobical, instead of being unfamiliar.
    because of all this, "we" live in boundaries set by the people who don't know.
    i my country there is a great hype to do things as genderneutral as possible... on public transport they say on the intercom, dear travellers instead of dear lady's and gentleman.
    they want to have genderneutral toilets...

    i do like the idea of this, to have a choice as transwoman, but i don't like all the media fuzz, hypes and so on, there are now just nasty people who react like complete lunatics because of ingnorance and because they can

    everyone deserves a spot on this planet, ABDL, IC, transgender, gay or just female or male, if there's enough information to have access to... maybe all the violence would be less... "keeps on dreaming"

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