HP of cars

w0lfpack91 · Jul 28, 2017

Dont look for initial HP, my deal is looking for a good base thats both sturdy and affordable to build on.

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pampersguy · Jul 28, 2017

I don't wanna "pimp my ride", so I'm only looking for what the manufacturer offers

. Plus, you can't really make up for small cylinder capacity, I read.
The whole "more PS than you need" thing is a good point. Although I agree, we should take a step back. Who really needs more than let's say, 60-100hp depending on the weight of your car (which should ideally depend on how many passengers you are able to take in). You'll reach a nice travelling speed pretty soon and for anything inside of town it's totally sufficient. The desire for more power is mainly initiated by some guy next to you in a faster car. So you think "my next car is totally gonna humiliate his car!". And so it goes on, until some crazy dude finally gets this hellcat machine. Insanity! 700-800hp, jesus christ...never heard of that murder weapon before.
However, I believe the time of combustion engines will end soon. I'm totally fine with an electric engine but they need to fix certain aspects before those things become a real alternative. That being:
1. How far you can go with a 100% loaded battery
2. How long it takes to load your battery
3. Price (I think they'll be affordable as soon as they start producing more and more)

Currently an electric ride is something only for people who go from A to B and both have a loading station and at both places you spend enough time to let it load enough to get back...oh, and for people with lots of money, of course.

Kenn · Jul 28, 2017

My concern with electric cars is what happens after an accident. We are all familiar with gasoline fires that result from collisions, but the risk of high voltage electrocution due to vehicle damage is unknown to me.

w0lfpack91 · Jul 28, 2017

pampersguy said:
I don't wanna "pimp my ride", so I'm only looking for what the manufacturer offers . Plus, you can't really make up for small cylinder capacity, I read.
The whole "more PS than you need" thing is a good point. Although I agree, we should take a step back. Who really needs more than let's say, 60-100hp depending on the weight of your car (which should ideally depend on how many passengers you are able to take in). You'll reach a nice travelling speed pretty soon and for anything inside of town it's totally sufficient. The desire for more power is mainly initiated by some guy next to you in a faster car. So you think "my next car is totally gonna humiliate his car!". And so it goes on, until some crazy dude finally gets this hellcat machine. Insanity! 700-800hp, jesus christ...never heard of that murder weapon before.
However, I believe the time of combustion engines will end soon. I'm totally fine with an electric engine but they need to fix certain aspects before those things become a real alternative. That being:
1. How far you can go with a 100% loaded battery
2. How long it takes to load your battery
3. Price (I think they'll be affordable as soon as they start producing more and more)

Currently an electric ride is something only for people who go from A to B and both have a loading station and at both places you spend enough time to let it load enough to get back...oh, and for people with lots of money, of course.

Id label anything less than 150 HP as a danger to motorists, You guys might get away with-it in other parts of the world but here in America everything is so large A 150 horsepower just would not have the grunt to get out of the way of most things Unless it's geared low, and if it's geared low it'll never reach freeway speeds comfortably or safley. Granted my truck May only have about a 130 horsepower maximum And I drive it just fine, However Had I not swapped it from a four speed auto to a 5 speed manual It would have some major problems On the interstate That truck was made and geared during a time when the country's top speed was the double nickel It was never designed to go 60-70 miles an hour So 130 horsepower with a low end gearing worked for that truck But even with the additional over drive gear It's still struggles at freeway speeds From lack of power on top end.

As far as horse power goes my sweet spot is about 600-650 HP at the crank. It's powerful enough it can dust anything on the street, Yet it is also stable/mild enough to be daily driven

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Siddy · Jul 28, 2017

For me, it means almost 0. Mainly because where i live is small and the speed limit is 35kph (but police dont pull you over until 51). So i would never get to use all the HP

My current car is a Peugeot 206 wagon with a 1.6L that did about 87ish HP. And the next car i want to get hopefully next year is rated at 90HP a Suzuki Ignis

When i go to the US i only rent cars based on if i need space or cost so again HP does not really matter to me there as well.

Slomo · Jul 28, 2017

Illinoise said:
In a match race, good luck keeping the horses from being spooked by the Hellcat, and breaking the stage beam, thereby redlighting.(To speak nothing of the difficulty of fitting 800 horses between the wall and centerline.) :laugh:

Not a race. HP is pulling power (like tug of war)

And yeah that would be funny. The car engine spooks the horses all tethered together to the back of the car. They take off in a panic, and the car's tires just skid until the frame is finally ripped apart.

w0lfpack91 · Jul 28, 2017

Slomo said:
Not a race. HP is pulling power (like tug of war)

And yeah that would be funny. The car engine spooks the horses all tethered together to the back of the car. They take off in a panic, and the car's tires just skid until the frame is finally ripped apart.

Incorrect

horse power is how fast you hit the wall

Torque is how far you push the wall

Horse power is your high end power limits It's A measure of how much work the engine can-do in a given time frame Horsepower is only prevalent in your high and once the engines already spun up

Torque Is your brunt pulling power Your torque limits Determine how fast you can launch or how much weight you can pull

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Moonshot · Jul 28, 2017

My 2011 GMC truck with a 6.2 liter is factory rated at 403 hp with a six speed automatic...I don't know how fast it will go but it sure pulls a trailer nice. My 2001 TransAm WS6 is rated 320 hp with a six speed manual...I don't know how fast it will go but it sure is fun to drive...

AAO · Jul 29, 2017

Since the Hellcat has been brought up I'll point out that it has been superseded by the Demon.

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pampersguy · Jul 29, 2017

What do you mean by get out of the way and so large? Your speed limits are not too high in the US. Any somewhat modern car should easily reach these speeds comfortably.
I guess 150hp is a number I could agree with too although I doubt modern cars need that much.

Illinoise · Jul 30, 2017

My 100 horse, 5 speed automatic Honda can get out of the way. I just have to use the steering wheel paddle shifters to downshift to 3rd gear around 50 mph to keep the revs high enough to quickly get to 60.

dogboy · Jul 30, 2017

My 2014 Honda Pilot has 250 HP and it comes in very handy getting on to our expressway which has very short entrances. It's also a lot of fun and a little bit of an Adrenalin rush to feel the twin cams kick in and the timing advance, etc. The new Honda Pilots have 280 HP.

w0lfpack91 · Jul 31, 2017

Yeah hondas and most other imports are not what i was refering to. My truck weighs 4,587lbs stock add on the roof rack, tent, offroad gear, larger tires, and my bug out kit brings the vehicle closer to 6,000lbs no passengers. Add in my usual passenger count of 3-5 ranging from 500-1000lbs (That's based on rough estimates from the last time we weighed everyone) puts my truck at just a hair above 7,000lbs @130HP. Leaves the power to weight ratio at 0.0186 horsepower per pound of gross vehicle weight

Even one of the higher end honda sedans only clocks in at around 3,000lbs @100HP would be roughly 0.033 horse power per pound. The average American made vehicle is about 130-150% that size and weight 100hp just dont cut it in the american market.

For commuter cars thats one thing, But for people who actually have a purpose behind having a vehicle for more than just driving to and from A 100 horsepower just does not cut it.

Even at 130 horse power and 4.56 gear ratio my truck struggles to get moving off the line. I cannot even use 4Hi in the truck if im on rough terrain i must be in 4LO or the truck stalls and eats the clutch.

Horsepower is not just a magical number you can judge across the board. The diffrence in performence comes from the power to weight ratio not the horsepower rating. The horse power is just the engines work performence limits, torque is just the engines low end pulling limits they are just numbers but to get true performence rating you want to compare those numbers to overall Gross vehicle weight. Most manufacturers will Design their engines and power ratings around the vehicles Absolute maximum GVWR (Gross vehicle weight rating) As your vehicle approaches its maximum gross vehicle weight You will notice a performance and fuel economy start to drop through the floor. On average my truck gets around 5-9 miles to the gallon because its so heavy on a low power engine. I am probably in that sweet spot where I can probably increase my fuel economy 2X by doubling my engines power output via a super charger or turbo.

Horsepower is meaningless without vehicle weight When judging performance stating that nobody needs over a certain amount of horsepower Without taking into account the vehicle weights that different people may actually be toting around Will lead to severe under performance in several larger vehicles

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w0lfpack91 · Jul 31, 2017

littlelodgewrecker said:
after all my many decades of driving i have long ago come to the conclusion that neither HP or torque is nearly as important in being safe on the road from those whom seem to believe everyone with a lessor car should just pull off to the side of the road. it's "mass" that rules. an old C-3500 with 8 inch frame-rails and a curb weight of 7800 lb's panted black is both a hard thing to ignore.... and even more substantially hard when hit from the stern by a foreign built example of light weight monocoque construction (as has been done a couple times). not unlike driving around in ones very own tank.

come to think of it, had i known how freaky the roads were going to become i would have opted for a c-4500 rather than the c-3500 19 years ago.....

Yeah but most of the point I was getting at Is that when you get up into the higher weight vehicles By default they're gonna need a lot more horsepower To be able to safely maneuver around traffic. Some of the highest horsepower vehicles on the road are also some of the slowest average semi truck runs between 425HP to around 700HP in heavy haul and most take up to 5 miniutes or longer to reach freeway speeds loaded. 100HP in that and it wouldnt even move.

Higher horsepower is required the larger and heavier the vehicle gets to keep it within a Safe opperating performance for the traffic around it.

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Kenn · Jul 31, 2017

littlelodgewrecker said:
after all my many decades of driving i have long ago come to the conclusion that neither HP or torque is nearly as important in being safe on the road from those whom seem to believe everyone with a lessor car should just pull off to the side of the road. it's "mass" that rules. an old C-3500 with 8 inch frame-rails and a curb weight of 7800 lb's panted black is both a hard thing to ignore.... and even more substantially hard when hit from the stern by a foreign built example of light weight monocoque construction (as has been done a couple times). not unlike driving around in ones very own tank.

come to think of it, had i known how freaky the roads were going to become i would have opted for a c-4500 rather than the c-3500 19 years ago.....

Not complete without railroad tie bumpers.

ProudPaddedBro · Jul 31, 2017

w0lfpack91 said:
Even at 130 horse power and 4.56 gear ratio my truck struggles to get moving off the line. I cannot even use 4Hi in the truck if im on rough terrain i must be in 4LO or the truck stalls and eats the clutch.

Horsepower is not just a magical number you can judge across the board. The diffrence in performence comes from the power to weight ratio not the horsepower rating. The horse power is just the engines work performence limits, torque is just the engines low end pulling limits they are just numbers but to get true performence rating you want to compare those numbers to overall Gross vehicle weight. Most manufacturers will Design their engines and power ratings around the vehicles Absolute maximum GVWR (Gross vehicle weight rating) As your vehicle approaches its maximum gross vehicle weight You will notice a performance and fuel economy start to drop through the floor. On average my truck gets around 5-9 miles to the gallon because its so heavy on a low power engine. I am probably in that sweet spot where I can probably increase my fuel economy 2X by doubling my engines power output via a super charger or turbo.

Horsepower is meaningless without vehicle weight When judging performance stating that nobody needs over a certain amount of horsepower Without taking into account the vehicle weights that different people may actually be toting around Will lead to severe under performance in several larger vehicles

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VERY curious to know what kind of truck you have that's 130hp and 7000 lbs loaded???

Wolfpack makes a great point. A new Miata has only ~150hp, but is a quick car due to the fact that it weighs over 1000lbs less than most full size sedans with about the same power (i.e. 4 cyl Camry). Conversely, the new Chevy/GMC trucks with the 6.2L V8 have 2.5x the power, and 2.5x the weight, and lo and behold run about the same 1/4 mile and 0-60 as a Miata.

There is a correlation between HP and weight over the last 30 years or so. Vehicles have gotten heavier and the amount of power required to move them has gone up. However, HP has increased so dramatically since about 1987 what we have today is grossly overpowered by the standards of the 1980's. Another case in point - if you lined up a 1988 Corvette with the hottest options of the day next to a brand new 2017 Honda Accord V6 in a drag race, the race would come down to who hit the gas first. Think about that for a second. Today's "family sedans" can run with the fastest performance cars of 30 years ago.

Slomo · Jul 31, 2017

w0lfpack91 said:
For commuter cars thats one thing, But for people who actually have a purpose behind having a vehicle for more than just driving to and from A 100 horsepower just does not cut it.

I completely agree. When there's an actual reason or purpose for higher horse power (such as with work trucks, semis, etc), then it makes sense.

But what's the purpose of having hellcat/demon, corvette, lamborgini, etc if you never once put it on a race track? It's a complete and unnecessary waste, which only translates to poor fuel ecomomy. High HP in what's essentially a commuter car that will never do more than 100mph is just plain stupid in my opinion.

w0lfpack91 · Jul 31, 2017

Slomo said:
I completely agree. When there's an actual reason or purpose for higher horse power (such as with work trucks, semis, etc), then it makes sense.

But what's the purpose of having hellcat/demon, corvette, lamborgini, etc if you never once put it on a race track? It's a complete and unnecessary waste, which only translates to poor fuel ecomomy. High HP in what's essentially a commuter car that will never do more than 100mph is just plain stupid in my opinion.

I can't say that wont ever be used but I can say They will never be used legally. I'll give the Hellcat and Corvette credit They both have systems that allow them To nerf their own horse power for conomy The demon was never made for anything but Drag Racing theyre only making a limited number of those. Lamborghinis and ferraris and all those have absolutely 0 purpose in the real world But to say that most these cars will Never see a 100 miles an hour is just not true Few go down to Southern Texas the average speed on the freeway as anywhere between 90 to 120 And across the plain States it's flat And wide-open With up to 300 to 400 miles between cities My stepmother had A Cadillac CTS-V And I topped that out at 163 miles an hour Coming across I10 Just a little East of El paso Texas So it's very possible and doable Especially in the Western States

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w0lfpack91 · Jul 31, 2017

ProudPaddedBro said:
VERY curious to know what kind of truck you have that's 130hp and 7000 lbs loaded???

1990 ford bronco XLT has a stock curb weight of 4500lbs

Has the 5.0 V8 an the M5OD 5 speed manual.

Most the weight comes from the equipment on it. I keep a roofrack with a rooftop tent bolted to the hard top. At all times i keep my AR15, mauser model 98 and my pistols in the truck so i opted for a mobile gun safe which adds about 600lbs extra then the drawers on top of the safe and all my standard bugout/camping gear that stays in the truck at all times. Add in my 300lb fat ass, my brothers 120lbs and my sons 60-70lbs and other varios passengers and it adds up

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