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Thread: Anti Gay Group in 2016

  1. #1

    Default Anti Gay Group in 2016

    A new anti-gay group is organizing here in Ottawa. It seems incomprehensible that in a country like Canada which legalized same sex marriages more than a decade ago, supports gay villages and has numerous Pride festivals, could also spawn the likes of these scumbuckets. This sounds like something out of the 1950's.

    The group calls itself ATG which stands for Anti-Gay (shouldn't it just be AG?). One of it's members was spotted at Saunder's Farm over the weekend at a family-friendly Halloween event. He was wearing a t-shirt with the ATG acronym in big letters. Below the ATG was a statement on the t-shirt which said:

    "If you are gay, don't approach me. I will kill you."

    Again, this was a family event with a lot of children present.

    http://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/man-who-wor...y-it-1.3141729

    The ATG member wearing the shirt apparently has no conscience. Although he proudly and openly proclaims his hatred of gays, he says he is not homophobic because he is not scared of gays. Apparently he has no idea what constitutes a homophobic act. He also believes he has the right to wear what he wants despite the message since he has the right to free speech. He thinks it's 'sick' that gays can wave their pride flags and dress the way they want, but he can't wear his t-shirt? I think one difference is the fact that gay people don't wear t-shirts threatening to kill heterosexuals!

    Police were called to Saunders's Farm after complaints were made to the owner, but he left before they arrived. Police are now investigating the group and whether charges could be laid under the Criminal Code. Canada has provisions against hate speech with what I believe are reasonable provisions,. To be considered as a criminal act, hate speech would have to be proven to incite hatred against an identifiable group and the incitement is likely to lead to violence. Considering the threat of the t-shirt in a public gathering, it's possible the ATG group could face criminal charges, which would still need to be proven in court.

    http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/a...-20030101.html.

    It saddens me that the members of this group appear to be quite young. In a Facebook photo showing about twenty members, they are quite young, from the age of eighteen to early twenties. I always felt that it was the younger generation who are more accepting of the LGBT population and less rigid in thinking in binary terms.

    As always, I value the freedom of speech as a fundamental right in our society. It would certainly be an interesting court case if this member of the group is charged under the Criminal Code, and if the case would meet the threshold of criminal activity.
    Last edited by Starrunner; 02-Nov-2016 at 16:11.

  2. #2

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    If this were any other ethnic minority, it would certainly be identified as a hate crime. Just imagine if the person wore a shirt that read "If you are black/Muslim/Hispanic, don't approach me. I will kill you." The group would have been charged immediately!
    Last edited by Sprinkles; 02-Nov-2016 at 18:55.

  3. #3

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    Absent the threat of violence, I suppose I'd be inclined to tolerate this as "free speech", hateful though it clearly is. Once death-threats are mixed in, though, it crosses the line. IMO.

  4. #4

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    Unfortunately homophobia is very much alive and well everywhere even in liberal countries.

    From a personal point of view it is necessary to focus on the positives. Things have improved beyond recogntion for LGB people over the last 30 years in Western countries. (Things aren't so great for Transexuals - but are slowly improving). Equality in law is largely achieved which is also a massive step.

    That said however, the battle for hearts and minds is a long way from being won. Homophobic bullying is widespread and homophobic comments are widely used as a form of abuse. Homophobic violence is also widespread and most LGBT are very careful about expressing themselves in public - even holiday hands with your partner in the wrong place and time could get you killed by some nutter even in the most liberal countries.

    Whilst the growth of groups like this is depressing I think we have to consider that the majority of people are not particularly homophobic - which is a massive change from before - and things are generally getting better in the West - though it can't be denied there are many countries in the world where things not getting better - or even getting worse.

    On the subject of free speech - there is no right under the guise of free speech to incite hatred of other groups - in fact in some countries it is quite rightly considered a crime.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinguinito View Post

    On the subject of free speech - there is no right under the guise of free speech to incite hatred of other groups - in fact in some countries it is quite rightly considered a crime.
    Laws differ from country to country, but in the US, for example, even "hate speech" is usually protected, and must meet exceptional standards to be considered unlawful. In short, it pretty much has to be proven that the purpose of the speech was to incite immediate violence. Inciting hate would be, by itself, insufficient.

    And, really, I wouldn't have it any other way. As soon as we start legislating what beliefs are and aren't ok to express--even if they're highly contentious--we're on a very slippery slope.

    Google "Westboro Baptist Church" if you want to see what qualifies as "free speech" over here--for better or worse.

  6. #6

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    Sticks and stones....

    Gays, along with everyone else in the heirarchy of victims need to mind there own business and stop looking for... or inciting... reasons to be offended or reasons to hate. For the most part, nobody cares unless you get up and rub your business in their face.

  7. #7

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    Someone shouldn't be able to walk around wearing sign that says what they're too afraid to utter with their mouth and then call themselves victims. They're cowards, and nothing more. Times are changing and anachronistic thinking like that is on the way out. People like that are so insecure they need to push around others just to feel good. Hmm, guess this new anti-gay group is a bunch of bullies who never grew up.

    And this person left after the police were called. Man, that guy must've been so edgy.

  8. #8

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    As Cottontail said, I'm reminded of the Westboro Baptist church showing up at the funerals of war casualties with their signs, "God Hates Fags". Bigotry is almost always caused by ignorance, stupidity, and self hate. Those kinds of people are losers who have accomplished nothing of value. Living in the South, I've come across too many people like that. In fact, I live only a few miles from Thomas Rd. Baptist Church and Liberty University. Maybe we should wear shirts that say, God Hates Bigots.

  9. #9

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    I hate these bigoty groups as well but, unfortunately, I also feel they have a right to exist and express their opinions in a non-violent way. I was going to say "non-harmful" way but there's no way to express these opinions without causing harm.

    However, threatening a life is never okay so that shirt was way across the line. Not only because of the threat it was making, but for the wearer's own safety as well


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxx View Post
    Sticks and stones....

    Gays, along with everyone else in the heirarchy of victims need to mind there own business and stop looking for... or inciting... reasons to be offended or reasons to hate. For the most part, nobody cares unless you get up and rub your business in their face.
    Maxx...

    So, are the people that are spewing their hate and discontent of others also [paraphrase] "getting up and rubbing their business in other's faces?
    I think so...

    Does that also make them among the "hierarchy of 'victims'"?
    I think so...

    Are they "minding their own business"
    I don't think so...

    Are they "looking for or, inciting, reasons to be offended or, reasons to hate"
    I think so...

    So... what do we do?


    The discrimination groups, are obviously not secure in their own beliefs... to be so further troubled, by what others are or aren't doing... or, appearing to be...

    One certainly isn't required or forced to believe that "gay is good" anymore than anyone is being required or forced to believe that the oppression via intimidation, force, injury or, death of "gays" is good as well...

    I have to ask though,... how many times in your life... have you believed a real or perceived threat, that existed on your immediate physical safety or, of your immediate life in this existence (never-minding, freedom of expressions for the moment)...


    • by groups or individuals, that would offer to kill you, beat you to a bloody pulp and, otherwise scowled, sneered, jeered, and created a hostile environment...
    • just for the way you looked, talked, walked, or acted (or for whom you did/do the horizontal-bop with)?


    I'll admit that as humans, we tend to go overboard in our momentum... it may very well be the fight-or-flight thing, on a greater scale... and, all sides are doing it...

    What we're talking about here (IMO)... is instinctual threats and, instinctual fears... take out the cannon-fodder of politics for a moment... get down to where we the people (that's all of us btw) are...

    This isn't about somebody whining because they got called a turd... ("sticks and stones")

    It isn't about special-rights or freedoms... it's about equal-rights and freedoms... if it is not applied and used uniformly across all people (even the one's that are really different acting and believing than us); then, it's not for any one of us... *some restrictions may apply*

    You figure out how to get concessions all around, from everyone... then, few if any will feel the need to be so blatant and aggressive in their expressions.

    I've had my life (seriously) threatened enough times and, over the years - wearing socially accepted (required), gender biased clothing standards (clothing doesn't have a gender), walking as well as I learned how, talking without a lisp (which is more of a speech impediment), doing as many of the things in the way that I was supposed to do, before I even consciously knew of my own odd-proclivities of my person, and my nature... I was minding my own business!

    Oh, I learned to be an actor... I could guffaw over hateful and spiteful, so-called humor... I listened respectfully to the church-ladies too (who would later give me looks of disapproval and admonishment)...

    The point I'm leading too - that this was not me! I didn't just make myself up in my imagination either... This wasn't, my life, liberty or, my pursuit of happiness

    The fear and immense threats, to my very life - even while trying to blend in... some people had laser accuracy... they could spot me - me a chameleon by my own right...

    No - even though this particular slogan on a T-shirt... seems almost like a proper warning of danger - (seems fair in that manner)...



    "If you are gay, don't approach me. I will kill you."
    What if you don't know that you are gay? Q
    What if you are Transgender T
    What if you are Lesbian? L
    What if you are Bi (-sexual) B

    What if, you are just bringing this guy his order?

    And, what does 'approach' mean?

    And, what if he's a closet-gay, gone homophobe?




    Threats of Violence Against Individuals.—The Supreme Court has cited three “reasons why threats of violence are outside the First Amendment”: “protecting individuals from the fear of violence, from the disruption that fear engenders, and from the possibility that the threatened violence will occur.”980
    I mean, it isn't like it's a hyperbole of saying something like "I would 'kill' for a pizza about now" or, "I'm gonna 'kill' you for that"...

    So does having the conditional stipulations ("if" and "approach") or, the unity of a cause, supposed by the acronym of "ATG"; constitute a “true threat"?

    Well, it got my hackles up!... that is to say, it caused a very real sense of fear in me - even though, I haven't seen the guy or the t-shirt...

    On one hand, I'm not compelled to outright oppose the formation of this "ATG" group yet, (because it's bound to happen) "Godwin's law"... It feels to me, akin to saying that I don't oppose Nazi's or Hitler... I suppose, that if they (Nazi regime) hadn't committed this massive atrocity on other humans (killing - millions of children, women and, men)... I might be more forgiving... And, I don't know about this particular group however, when any group or individual, hangs on the shirttails of the infamous 'Holocaust' (or even appears to be)... well...

    Why can't we just all get along...?

    You got the answers Maxx?

    Anyone....? anyone...? Bueller...?

    Live and let live?

    -Marka

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