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Thread: 50 dead, 53 injured in Orlando

  1. #1

    Default 50 dead, 53 injured in Orlando

    As a gay person, I'm just stunned into sorrow and silence this morning. Fifty people were murdered, and another fifty three were seriously injured in a mass shooting at a gay club in Orlando Florida.

    http://ottawacitizen.com/storyline/5...lub-in-orlando

    The killer apparently called.911 before his rampage and proclaimed it was in the name of ISIS. No doubt there will be many questions in the months to come as to whether this person was actually affiliated with terrorist groups or acted alone, suffered mental health problems, how he acquired weapons with minimum background checks, and whether it was also a hate crime specifically targeted against the LGBT population.

    As I write this another report comes in from L.A where police arrested a man near a Gay Pride Parade for having a trunkful of explosives and weapons.

    http://www.wnd.com/2016/06/man-with-...-pride-parade/

    For all our hard fought battles, for all the gains we have made in equality in the workplace and same-sex marriages, it is heartbreaking to see such pathological homophobia and hatred can continue to exist. No words can express my sadness today.

  2. #2

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    I've read on the new that in view of the circumstances , gay and bisexual men will be exceptionally allowed to donate blood (was still illegal in this state?) It's important to share the information clinics and hospitals will need the most donor's blood.
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	26437 Courage to all the survivors and victim's families.

  3. #3

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    ISIS Saddens me, To be honest. I pray for the suviors of this and there families.

  4. #4

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    My most profound sympathies to the families of the slain. It's a salutary reminder that progress, however you define it, is not inevitable, or irreversible, and there will always be people desperate to turn back the clock, by any means necessary.

  5. #5

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    Sadly it's not your were gay it was a certain religious group hates all not of there belief.
    I'm sorry there is hate but I'm on there death list also .
    We are at war dont you see that .
    So lets let 60'000 or more like 200'000 more in.
    I saw this coming.
    I give my confort to those hurt in this shooting .
    But sadly more to come I fear until we wake up.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by foxkits View Post
    Sadly it's not your were gay it was a certain religious group hates all not of there belief.
    I'm sorry there is hate but I'm on there death list also .
    We are at war dont you see that .
    So lets let 60'000 or more like 200'000 more in.
    I saw this coming.
    I give my confort to those hurt in this shooting .
    But sadly more to come I fear until we wake up.
    You do realize it was a US Citizen who was born in New York that committed this heinous crime

    So let's not be rash and you can't deal with intolerance with intolerance.

    My thoughts are with the loved ones of those people who were killed and injured in this horrific attack

  7. #7

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    You do realize it was a US Citizen who was born in New York that committed this heinous crime
    So let's not be rash and you can't deal with intolerance with intolerance.

    The parents were from Afghanistan we dont know what his upbringing was.
    All I know is how many more have to die.
    It seems it's always a middle east surname.
    If most of the attacks are from a certain group then you must watch that group.
    Maybe you mite be next then how would you feel.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by foxkits View Post
    The parents were from Afghanistan we dont know what his upbringing was.
    All I know is how many more have to die.
    It seems it's always a middle east surname.
    If most of the attacks are from a certain group then you must watch that group.
    Maybe you mite be next then how would you feel.
    I think you will find that there has been a prevalence of homophobia and gay-bashing in our region from our own people, particularly natural-born citizens of our countries. Just look at the trans-bashing going on in North Carolina with its public bathroom laws. Please do not use this thread as a vehicle to promote more intolerance against other groups.
    Last edited by HogansHeroes; 13-Jun-2016 at 03:52. Reason: fixing quote tags

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by foxkits View Post
    The parents were from Afghanistan we dont know what his upbringing was.
    Ah, good old-fashioned xenophia. :-)



    Quote Originally Posted by foxkits View Post
    All I know is how many more have to die.
    So why not ban guns? Maybe if it wasn't legal to maraud the neighbourhood with a murder weapon it would be easier to catch these nutjobs before they do anything. Your gun-murder-per-capita is around THIRTY times that in the UK. And gun murder rates in the US, are drastically higher than deaths from terrorism.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34996604



    Quote Originally Posted by foxkits View Post
    It seems it's always a middle east surname.
    Whenever someone with a Middle-Eastern surname does something, it's always someone with a Middle-Eastern surname?! But, otherwise it's always someone with a Western surname...?

    Most terrorism in the US is committed by US citizens. Between 1982 and 2015, the vast majority of mass-shootings were by white people:

    http://www.statista.com/statistics/4...hooter-s-race/

    You guys shoot each other more than in any other developed country on Earth!



    Quote Originally Posted by foxkits View Post
    If most of the attacks are from a certain group then you must watch that group.
    Only if there's a causal relationship between the ideology of the group and that of the attackers; otherwise it's just bigotry. It should be pretty obvious that a tendency towards terrorism isn't an archetypal ideology of an particular race or tribe.

    Would you be okay if Americans were given a blanket ban from travelling to Europe because the high murder rate means that visitors are more likely to be homicidal maniacs than locals? Come on. That's just silly.

    We can't ignore statistical risks like these when profiling potential visitors. And if someone (of any ethnicity) subscribes to the ideology a criminal and/or terrorist organisation, then they should certainly be closely monitored.

    But you can't just shut out anyone who doesn't have pure white skin and blue eyes. We've been there before. You can't be so concerned for your own safety (whilst living in the safest, wealthiest country in the world) that you are willing to discriminate against others based on the colour of their skin or the country in which their parents were born. How many witch hunts does America need?



    Quote Originally Posted by foxkits View Post
    Maybe you mite be next then how would you feel.
    Yeah... I wonder how you would feel if you were the next group to be on the receiving end of intolerance and bigotry. What would that be like...?

    - - - Updated - - -



    Quote Originally Posted by Starrunner View Post
    I think you will find that there has been a prevalence of homophobia and gay-bashing in our region from our own people, particularly natural-born citizens of our countries. Just look at the trans-bashing going on in North Carolina with its public bathroom laws. Please do not use this thread as a vehicle to promote more intolerance against other groups.
    Actually, I was thinking that. ISIS may be eager to take the credit, but the fact that a gay club was chosen ties in rather well with the ideology of native bigots.

  10. #10

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    Well, in defense of foxkits, religiously-motivated murder is what we're really talking about here. If you narrow your focus on that particular class of crime, then there can be no doubt that it is overwhelmingly middle-eastern in origin, even if not committed directly by citizens of middle-eastern countries.

    And that's not to say that Islam is, per se, to blame. Western ways of thinking are steadily penetrating into many societies that, for lack of economic motivations (and for plenty of other reasons, too) have had little incentive to embrace or mingle with these ways of thinking until now. Many of these societies happen to be Muslim, and therein lies the challenge: It really is too easy to blame Islam for this sort of thing. Is it a component? Sort of. But there's also the rather large matter of Islam simply being the religion that's there. It's a way of thinking that, like many we are more familiar with, can be abused as a template for all kinds of pathological behaviors. If we were Muslims and the middle east was instead a bastion of reclusive Christian societies, might we be talking about "those horrible Christian terrorists?"

    Of course we would be.

    Separately, while nobody would propose trading fifty lives for forward progress in the LGBT movement, we've just been forced to trade fifty lives for...something. Let us hope it's that. There are many among us who would deny a gay person the right to marry, the right to expect service at a business, etc., but the right to live? That is, hopefully, so far away from the average American's sense of what is just and reasonable that it draws considerable sympathy and compassion, and brings about a change of perspective. Because the human condition conveys plenty of challenges and sorrows. Concerning oneself with another person's romantic and/or sexual preferences is an unhappy choice that we can all avoid.
    Last edited by Cottontail; 13-Jun-2016 at 01:49.

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