Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 15

Thread: Justin Trudeau and bill C-16

  1. #1

    Default Justin Trudeau and bill C-16

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tran...ment-1.3585522

    Justin Trudeau (Prime Minister of Canada) has yesterday, introduced Bill C-16 that would update the Canadian Human Rights Act and the Criminal Code to include the terms 'gender identity' and 'gender expression." This means that if passed, the legislation would make it illegal to discriminate on the basis of gender identity or expression. It would also extend hate speech laws to include the two terms.

    I feel like Justin has been doing a great job as our PM and I like what he is doing for our Country. What are your thoughts?

  2. #2

    Default

    On the gender issues stuff, largely ambivalent. Our society was largely built on the idea of two genders which were static and easily identifiable. All the various permutations of physical gender vs identity vs expression have only really become a mainstream thing relatively recently, and it's gonna take time for society to figure out how to deal with it. Incremental steps like this are basically how I see that happening, so yay I guess.

    As to Justin Trudeau in general, it's a typical liberal government. Lots of warm fuzzy stuff like this, but also lots of out of control spending. We gain social progress but kill our economy.

  3. #3
    MarchinBunny

    Default



    Quote Originally Posted by BoundCoder View Post
    On the gender issues stuff, largely ambivalent. Our society was largely built on the idea of two genders which were static and easily identifiable. All the various permutations of physical gender vs identity vs expression have only really become a mainstream thing relatively recently, and it's gonna take time for society to figure out how to deal with it. Incremental steps like this are basically how I see that happening, so yay I guess.

    As to Justin Trudeau in general, it's a typical liberal government. Lots of warm fuzzy stuff like this, but also lots of out of control spending. We gain social progress but kill our economy.
    I would like to make a correction on some things here. Technically there is still only two genders. Male and Female, although there maybe some people who identify as both. The only people I know whom have made up new genders, tend to be extremists to some degree, whether it be in feminism or just political correctness.

    In the past, gender identity pretty much was strictly a term used for transgender individuals, those who identified as the opposite gender, but still male or female. It was that way for a very long time. But yes, when the extremists got a hold of these terms, they pretty much butchered them which in turn really caused a lot of issues and believe it has caused more harm than good. So I can understand why you would be ambivalent on these issues. Overall, I would say just ignore the extremists who think they need a label for every minuscule difference.

  4. #4

    Default



    Quote Originally Posted by brabbit1987 View Post
    The only people I know whom have made up new genders, tend to be extremists to some degree, whether it be in feminism or just political correctness. [...] Overall, I would say just ignore the extremists who think they need a label for every minuscule difference.
    A word of caution: in our community, we make distinctions between IC/AB/DL/Furry/Little etc. These labels are important to us because we identify with them and they describe us in a specific way we relate to. I'd suggest we allow our friends in that community to self-identify with the nuances that are important to them.

    If you are CIS gendered (like me) and have never really thought about non-CIS gendered topics, it may seem really simple to go with a binary gender definition. However, to many non-CIS gendered people, the distinction IS important.

    We want people to treat us with respect, and I think it behooves us to do the same for other minority groups.

  5. #5

    Default



    Quote Originally Posted by ornitorrinco View Post
    We want people to treat us with respect, and I think it behooves us to do the same for other minority groups.
    I think this point is well put. Gender, today, is typically understood to be a spectrum consisting of a variety of things including physical characteristics, choices in grooming and clothing, and a variety of social roles and activities. Any one individual can fit in various points along these different lines and may also move along these lines and not always take the same position.

    In addition, per Wikipedia, there are also some countries that legally recognize a third gender or "indeterminate" gender as well, which I think is quite interesting. The article also presents one view that there could be 5 distinct gender labels (male, female, hermaphrodite, partial hermaphrodite leaning male, and partial hermaphrodite leaning female), which is also an interesting way to view it, I think.

  6. #6
    MarchinBunny

    Default



    Quote Originally Posted by ornitorrinco View Post
    A word of caution: in our community, we make distinctions between IC/AB/DL/Furry/Little etc. These labels are important to us because we identify with them and they describe us in a specific way we relate to. I'd suggest we allow our friends in that community to self-identify with the nuances that are important to them.

    If you are CIS gendered (like me) and have never really thought about non-CIS gendered topics, it may seem really simple to go with a binary gender definition. However, to many non-CIS gendered people, the distinction IS important.

    We want people to treat us with respect, and I think it behooves us to do the same for other minority groups.
    Well I am transgender and I still disagree. It's one thing to want to be labeled as something, it's another thing to call it a new gender. Biology does not work that way. There are only two genders. Even if you fall somewhere on that spectrum, you will still either be male or female regardless, (or a combination of both).

    For example, in the AB/DL community we have different labels, we don't say little is a type of gender. There is a huge significant difference there. Also, a little in our community is still part of being an AB/DL, it's not like it is it's own thing. IC .. isn't a label, it is a tag representing that someone is Incontinence, they don't identify as that. Furry, is actually an entirely different group and itself has little to do with AB/DL. You just happen to have some people who are both.



    Quote Originally Posted by ArchieRoni View Post
    I think this point is well put. Gender, today, is typically understood to be a spectrum consisting of a variety of things including physical characteristics, choices in grooming and clothing, and a variety of social roles and activities. Any one individual can fit in various points along these different lines and may also move along these lines and not always take the same position.

    In addition, per Wikipedia, there are also some countries that legally recognize a third gender or "indeterminate" gender as well, which I think is quite interesting. The article also presents one view that there could be 5 distinct gender labels (male, female, hermaphrodite, partial hermaphrodite leaning male, and partial hermaphrodite leaning female), which is also an interesting way to view it, I think.
    Regardless if it's a spectrum does not matter. There is still either male or female. This is the reason why so many people these days do not take us seriously because we do not follow what is true and false anymore, we make crap up. We whine and complain about wanting something to be true when it isn't true. If you learn basic biology you would know there literally is no way you could have a third gender. Even those who are born with the issue of having extra chromosomes are not a third gender, it's a mutation of the two that already exist.

    It's fine if you want to create thousands of damned labels but don't throw them into the gender category, because that isn't what they are. Also, little do you know it actually harms the transgender cause by doing this because then it makes people believe anyone can identify as anything and that is now where you get the whole "I identify as a toaster" jokes. It turns the real issues of being transgender into a joke, something people do not take seriously because now everyone can identify as transgender if they just want too. I don't know about you, but it freaking sucks being transgender, it's not a game, it's not fun, it's not something people should want to be.

    Edit: http://ageofshitlords.com/list-of-al...enders-so-far/
    This is how ridiculous it has become. New genders being made up all the damned time.
    Last edited by MarchinBunny; 19-May-2016 at 10:47.

  7. #7

    Default

    I was very happy to see this legislation tabled. It's heartening to see a government in power that actually recognizes the hardships that the transgendered population face every day with discrimination in housing, employment and services.Similar bills have been tried and failed throughout the past decade due to the previous government but this one actually has a chance of succeeding since it's being tabled by the government and not the opposition parties.. The only thing that could delay or stop it would be if the Senate refuses to pass it where the conservatives still hold a majority.. Personally I don't think it would be in their best interests to obstruct it since most Canadians support this legislation and even the interim leader of the party, Rona Ambrose, has pledged her support for the bill. Besides, Trudeau's popularity is through the roof right now, and it's a good time to put the legislation through.

    I'm not opposed to the provisions of including transgendered people in hate crimes so that the courts must consider this aspect when sentencing, however, I always feel that longer sentences may not be real deterrents in hate crimes, and my preference (as with all groups protected with human rights code status) would be more education in conjunction with this legislation, particularly in the schools, about tolerance and diversity. Hatred can start at a young age and the best defense against it s education. Overall, however, I think this is a very positive bill.
    Last edited by Starrunner; 19-May-2016 at 12:24.

  8. #8

    Default



    Quote Originally Posted by ornitorrinco View Post
    A word of caution: in our community, we make distinctions between IC/AB/DL/Furry/Little etc. These labels are important to us because we identify with them and they describe us in a specific way we relate to. I'd suggest we allow our friends in that community to self-identify with the nuances that are important to them.

    If you are CIS gendered (like me) and have never really thought about non-CIS gendered topics, it may seem really simple to go with a binary gender definition. However, to many non-CIS gendered people, the distinction IS important.

    We want people to treat us with respect, and I think it behooves us to do the same for other minority groups.
    I concur with your thoughts here.

  9. #9
    MarchinBunny

    Default



    Quote Originally Posted by caitianx View Post
    I concur with your thoughts here.
    Still really doesn't change the fact that there are only 2 genders. People can make a whole bunch of new words, but that doesn't make them new genders. I really wish people would understand what I mean. This is the way nature works, it doesn't just change because people want it to. Facts are facts. It's not like I am saying you can't decide to label yourself, go right ahead, but calling it a gender is just plain wrong.
    Last edited by HogansHeroes; 31-May-2016 at 03:16. Reason: first rule of the rep club ... if you have issues with rep, take them up in requests, not anywhere else

  10. #10

    Default It is a bit confusing, however...



    Quote Originally Posted by brabbit1987 View Post
    Still really doesn't change the fact that there are only 2 genders. People can make a whole bunch of new words, but that doesn't make them new genders. I really wish people would understand what I mean. This is the way nature works, it doesn't just change because people want it to. Facts are facts. It's not like I am saying you can't decide to label yourself, go right ahead, but calling it a gender is just plain wrong.
    It seems to me that the biggest contributor to the confusion - starts with the haphazard use of the terminology. (for what ever reasons that may be.)



    FROM: www.medicalnewstoday.com

    Sex And Gender: What Is The Difference?

    Last updated: Thu 24 March 2016

    Historically, the terms "sex" and "gender" have been used interchangeably, but, in modern society, their meanings are becoming increasingly distinct.

    Being clear on the differences between the two concepts is more important than ever.


    ... It is genetics which defines the sex of an individual. ...


    ... Although sex is often considered a black and white state of affairs, there is, in fact, a significant amount of middle ground; some believe that sex should be considered a continuum as opposed to two mutually exclusive categories. ... (PLEASE NOTE: We are still talking about biological sex not GENDER yet...)




    CONTINUED FROM: www.medicalnewstoday.com

    Gender differences


    Gender tends to denote the social and cultural role of each sex within a given society.4 Rather than being purely assigned by genetics as sex differences generally are, gender roles are adhered to as an (often subliminal) response to family interactions, the media, peers and education.5

    The World Health Organization (WHO) describe "gender" like so:6

    "Gender refers to the socially constructed characteristics of women and men - such as norms, roles and relationships of and between groups of women and men. It varies from society to society and can be changed."


    Gender roles in particularly patriarchal societies are much more rigid than those in more liberal countries. In Saudi Arabia, for instance, a woman's gender role is as the homemaker, they are subservient to men and not provided certain freedoms such as driving.


    Gender roles vary greatly between societies.
    In liberal countries, gender roles are still apparent in many regards - women often spend more time childrearing and men are more likely to be the primary money-earners.

    However, traditional gender roles are not set in stone and are increasingly reversed in modern societies.

    Gender roles and gender stereotypes are highly fluid and can shift substantially over time. For instance, high-heeled shoes, now almost unanimously considered feminine in Western societies, were initially designed for upper-class men to use when hunting on horseback.
    As women caught on and began wearing high heels, male heels slowly became shorter and fatter as female heels grew taller and thinner. Over time, the perception of the high heel changed to its current sociological state: feminine.8 There is nothing intrinsically feminine about the high heel; social norms have made it so.
    ...


    CONTINUED FROM: www.medicalnewstoday.com
    Gender identity and expression


    Another meaning of gender is an individual's view of themselves - gender identity. GLAAD (formerly the Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation) describe gender identity as being:
    "One's internal, personal sense of being a man or woman. For transgender people, their own internal gender identity does not match the sex they were assigned at birth.

    Most people have a gender identity of man or woman (or boy or girl). For some people, their gender identity does not fit neatly into one of those two choices."9
    Similarly, GLAAD describe gender expression as follows:
    "External manifestations of gender, expressed through one's name, pronouns, clothing, haircut, behavior, voice, or body characteristics. Society identifies these cues as masculine and feminine, although what is considered masculine and feminine changes over time and varies by culture."
    To conclude, in general terms, "sex" refers to biological characteristics and "gender" refers to the individual's and society's perceptions of sexuality and the malleable concepts of masculinity and femininity.




    FROM: http://www.med.monash.edu.au/genderm...andgender.html

    What is the difference between sex and gender?


    Sex = male and female
    Gender = masculine and feminine

    So in essence:

    Sex refers to biological differences; chromosomes, hormonal profiles, internal and external sex organs.

    Gender describes the characteristics that a society or culture delineates as masculine or feminine.

    So while your sex as male or female is a biological fact that is the same in any culture, what that sex means in terms of your gender role as a 'man' or a 'woman' in society can be quite different cross culturally. These 'gender roles' have an impact on the health of the individual.

    In sociological terms 'gender role' refers to the characteristics and behaviours that different cultures attribute to the sexes. What it means to be a 'real man' in any culture requires male sex plus what our various cultures define as masculine characteristics and behaviours, likewise a 'real woman' needs female sex and feminine characteristics.

    To summarise:

    'man' = male sex+ masculine social role
    (a 'real man', 'masculine' or 'manly')
    'woman' = female sex + feminine social role
    (a 'real woman', 'feminine' or 'womanly')
    One more...
    FROM: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gender


    Definition of gender



    • 1 a : a subclass within a grammatical class (as noun, pronoun, adjective, or verb) of a language that is partly arbitrary but also partly based on distinguishable characteristics (as shape, social rank, manner of existence, or sex) and that determines agreement with and selection of other words or grammatical forms b : membership of a word or a grammatical form in such a subclass c : an inflectional form showing membership in such a subclass
    • 2 a : sex <the feminine gender> b : the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex


    So, from a strictly analytical standpoint - It would seem that "Transgender", could in fact be a gender of it's own.

    - And, that earlier transgender emergence; was a rather binary, social-cultural representation or expression of a binary selection of two of the more commonly known biological sexes.

    And, that this particular range of gender-expression, was typically in nearly if not complete juxtaposition of the former traditional standards.

    Times have changed - We've learned some things and, we've forgotten some things-




    Quote Originally Posted by ArchieRoni View Post
    [...] hermaphrodite, partial hermaphrodite leaning male, and partial hermaphrodite leaning female[...]


    FROM: http://www.isna.org/faq/hermaphrodite
    The mythological term “hermaphrodite”
    implies that a person is both fully male and fully female. This is a physiologic impossibility. The words “hermaphrodite” and “pseudo-hermaphrodite” are stigmatizing and misleading words. Unfortunately, some medical personnel still use them to refer to people with certain intersex conditions, because they still subscribe to an outdated nomenclature that uses gonadal anatomy as the basis of sex classification.

    Best regards,
    -Marka

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 35
    Last Post: 20-Mar-2014, 07:09
  2. GCSB Bill.
    By KiwiBoi in forum Mature Topics
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 23-Aug-2013, 02:58
  3. Justin Bieber lands himself in hot water ... again
    By MokatheGroundhog in forum Mature Topics
    Replies: 75
    Last Post: 04-May-2013, 01:17
  4. Hello my name is Justin
    By snmkid37 in forum Greetings / Introductions
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 20-Dec-2011, 10:49
  5. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 30-Apr-2011, 00:15

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
ADISC.org - the Adult Baby / Diaper Lover / Incontinence Support Community.
ADISC.org is designed to be viewed in Firefox, with a resolution of at least 1280 x 1024.