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Thread: Stupid Anti Transgender Law

  1. #1

    Default Stupid Anti Transgender Law

    I'm always hopeful that as our society evolves, we acquire a greater understanding and acceptance of disadvantaged and marginalized groups. Unfortunately, when I see the proposed legislation that is coming out of North Carolina, it just leaves me shaking my head and wondering how it could happen in 2016..
    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2...r-bathroom-law.

    North Carolina is proposing a new law that transgender people would be requiredto use public washrooms based on the sex listed on their birth certificate, not by the gender with which they identify. The law also forces transgender students from using washrooms inconsistent with their gender identity.

    The bill was brought forward by Governor Pat McCrory who criticized opponents of the legislation for conducting “a well-coordinated, national campaign to smear our state’s reputation after we passed a common-sense law to ensure no government can take away our basic expectations of privacy in bathrooms, locker rooms and showers.” It actually seems like more of a campaign for McCrery to appeal to the narrow minded transphobic members of society. The state lawmakers apparently were in a rush to push the legislation through in response to a new ordinance in Charlotte, North Carolina’s largest city, which allowed people to use the washroom which corresponded to the person's gender with which they identify. The state law would likely be used to strike down the municipal legislation.

    This just seems so dangerous. It would force a male who identifies as female to use a washroom for men. A public washroom is one of the most likely places where a trans person will face harassment and violence. It increases the likelihood of hate crimes and puts the person at unnecessary risk of harm. You may have guessed from the title of this post, I believe the legislation is discriminatory and based on prejudice, fear, and hatred of a small, harmless group struggling for acceptance. Unfortunately they continue to remain easily targeted for conservative political gain.

  2. #2

    Default

    It's not proposed, it was passed and signed by the governor in less than a day. In line with your comments, the entire thing has received massive quantities of flak from a number of sources to include lawsuits supported by ACLU.

    Personally, I'm hoping the entire law is tossed on 14th amendment grounds, but I'm afraid it might be restricted to only applying to previously unstated classes.
    Last edited by Traemo; 04-Apr-2016 at 13:08. Reason: grammar

  3. #3

    Unhappy



    Quote Originally Posted by Starrunner View Post
    I'm always hopeful that as our society evolves, we acquire a greater understanding and acceptance of disadvantaged and marginalized groups. Unfortunately, when I see the proposed legislation that is coming out of North Carolina, it just leaves me shaking my head and wondering how it could happen in 2016..
    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2...r-bathroom-law.

    North Carolina is proposing a new law that transgender people would be requiredto use public washrooms based on the sex listed on their birth certificate, not by the gender with which they identify. The law also forces transgender students from using washrooms inconsistent with their gender identity.

    The bill was brought forward by Governor Pat McCrory who criticized opponents of the legislation for conducting “a well-coordinated, national campaign to smear our state’s reputation after we passed a common-sense law to ensure no government can take away our basic expectations of privacy in bathrooms, locker rooms and showers.” It actually seems like more of a campaign for McCrery to appeal to the narrow minded transphobic members of society. The state lawmakers apparently were in a rush to push the legislation through in response to a new ordinance in Charlotte, North Carolina’s largest city, which allowed people to use the washroom which corresponded to the person's gender with which they identify. The state law would likely be used to strike down the municipal legislation.

    This just seems so dangerous. It would force a male who identifies as female to use a washroom for men. A public washroom is one of the most likely places where a trans person will face harassment and violence. It increases the likelihood of hate crimes and puts the person at unnecessary risk of harm. You may have guessed from the title of this post, I believe the legislation is discriminatory and based on prejudice, fear, and hatred of a small, harmless group struggling for acceptance. Unfortunately they continue to remain easily targeted for conservative political gain.
    To quote Android 18 in Team Four Star abridged, "That is sad, I am sad." and yes i do believe this is discriminatory, and i hope this law gets struck down. I will prey for it to be.

  4. #4

    Default

    Sorry, Star, you're dead wrong.

    First, I agree that the law is little more than grandstanding. There shouldn't have to be any laws on this at all. Reasonable people just go along and make accommodations to whatever the situation is. Someone 6'5" in heels and a dress is going to get double-takes no matter what law you pass, but for the most part that's all that happens. Maybe its a transgender, or maybe its Mrs. Junior. Unfortunately, out of control political correctness has forced the absurd. What once was obvious to the casual observer has now become the province of lawyers and psychiatrists. Once that happens, reasonable solutions are out the window.

    This is very much like leash laws for dogs. Your dog might be friendly and harmless, but you're the only one who knows that (in a lot of cases, even you don't, really. You just know he's nice to YOU). You need to keep him on a leash in public areas because its unreasonable and inconsiderate to force others around you to guess whether the oncoming blur of fur is intent on greeting or mayhem.

    Your head might disagree with what's going on in your pants and that's fine, but its rude and unreasonable to assume the rest of world knows what's going on in your head, or worse, try to force the rest of the world into it. Transgender? Trickery? or just batshit crazy? There's no way for the rest of us to tell from the outside.

    If there has to be a law, then it has to be based on empirically observable facts. In the case of gender, that means chromosomes and plumbing, not the opinion of the person with the mismatched organs, or the <mostly subjective> opinion of some shrink which is also invisible to passersby.
    Last edited by Maxx; 04-Apr-2016 at 13:54.

  5. #5

    Default



    Quote Originally Posted by Starrunner View Post
    This just seems so dangerous. It would force a male who identifies as female to use a washroom for men. A public washroom is one of the most likely places where a trans person will face harassment and violence. It increases the likelihood of hate crimes and puts the person at unnecessary risk of harm. You may have guessed from the title of this post, I believe the legislation is discriminatory and based on prejudice, fear, and hatred of a small, harmless group struggling for acceptance. Unfortunately they continue to remain easily targeted for conservative political gain.
    Please enlighten us how a woman in a restroom knows that the 6'2", 220lb person in a dress with 5 o'clock shadow is not a disguised armed robber in flight or a pervert looking for a victim or just out of their mind? Is it fair to the rest of the population to make THEM figure it out in order to assuage the feelings of less than 1% who could just as easily go along with a bit of inconvenience?

    Edit: Let's consider the oft used example of a poor tormented trans high school student. What does going to the opposite locker room or washroom do for them? First off, they don't blend in, regardless of laws or policies. Penis and testicles tend to stand out in an open girl's shower room. A proclamation from the superintendent and a letter home to all parents that young Maxx is now 'officially' Maxxette doesn't make them invisible. If anything it makes things worse. High school lockerrooms are bad enough as it is, don't even begin the thought that someone of the opposite physical gender is going to be allowed in without all kinds of notice and identification.

    You don't think girls tease and bully? Maybe the fantasy says its all strawberries and cream, I doubt that's anywhere close to reality. Yeah, you'll get some of the girls fawning on you and saying nice things out of pity and political correctness, BUT.....

    And regardless of fantasy and official policy, the star quarterback isn't going to ask you to prom and have his way with you on the beach next morning. That doesn't happen with 99.9% of XX girls either.

    I'll give you one thing, it might be a little physically safer. Young Maxx entered high school at 4'7" and 70lbs with no hair anywhere but my head. Didn't crack the 5' or hair barriers until senior year. It never occurred to me at the time, but the girl's locker room might have been a bit less scary, if only because they were closer to my size.
    Last edited by Maxx; 04-Apr-2016 at 15:32.

  6. #6

    Default

    I agree, this law does little. How is it going to be enforced? Is someone going to be a the door carding everyone? What is needed is for people to be more tolerant and considerate. This goes both ways, the general public needs to be tolerant and considerate that a transgender feels uncomfortable being forced to use the washroom of the gender they do not identify with. Transgenders also need to consider how other people feel about sharing a washroom with someone who is not of the same physical gender.

  7. #7

    Default

    Just to be blunt here, the idea that the gender appropriate bathroom laws are going to make life so much scarier for women (or men for that matter) is a massive myth. Seriously, Maxx, this idea of a 6'2" 220lb person with a 5 o'clock shadow being an armed robber or a pervert? What about it just being a big woman with a hormone imbalance? Sexual predators and criminals are not going to care if the law allows people based on the gender in their brain into the bathroom or not.

    This myth that allowing people into bathrooms based on gender rather than biological sex contributing to a rise in sex crimes is completely debunked by years of empirical data. Yeah, someone may be uncomfortable because they think, "Oh, they weren't actually born with the same genitals as me, they're going to be a pervert," when actually, the truth is far from it.

  8. #8

    Default



    Quote Originally Posted by AnalogRTO View Post
    Just to be blunt here, the idea that the gender appropriate bathroom laws are going to make life so much scarier for women (or men for that matter) is a massive myth. Seriously, Maxx, this idea of a 6'2" 220lb person with a 5 o'clock shadow being an armed robber or a pervert? What about it just being a big woman with a hormone imbalance? Sexual predators and criminals are not going to care if the law allows people based on the gender in their brain into the bathroom or not.

    This myth that allowing people into bathrooms based on gender rather than biological sex contributing to a rise in sex crimes is completely debunked by years of empirical data. Yeah, someone may be uncomfortable because they think, "Oh, they weren't actually born with the same genitals as me, they're going to be a pervert," when actually, the truth is far from it.
    I was alluding to the fears and state of mind of women who are forced to share facilities with someone who is obviously not one of them, but may be a physical threat. Whether or not an actual threat exists wasn't my point.

    The other part of it, crossdressers, perverts, voyeurs, etc., outnumber actual transgenders, so odds are better than even that the weirdo IS actually a weirdo and a potential threat as opposed to a "poor misunderstood transgender".

    Remember that testicles and a penis also come, on average, with greater size and strength. So your average M-to-F transgender is more of a potential physical threat to your average woman, regardless of what he/she thinks he/she is in his/her head. As for F-to-M, the argument works completely against the "comfort and safety" of the transgender person.

  9. #9

    Default

    I would love to see the evidence that this bill was passed because of the huge numbers of voyeurs and robbers passing themselves off as transgender to get into the women's washroom so they could rob them. Far more likely is the reality of trans men getting assaulted in public washrooms designated for men. This bill will only promote and incite violence. One study in Washington showed that 70% of people who identified as trans or nonconformist in their sexual identity reported harassment, intimidation and violence.

    http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2013/0...athroom-study/

  10. #10

    Default



    Quote Originally Posted by Starrunner View Post
    I would love to see the evidence that this bill was passed because of the huge numbers of voyeurs and robbers passing themselves off as transgender to get into the women's washroom so they could rob them. Far more likely is the reality of trans men getting assaulted in public washrooms designated for men. This bill will only promote and incite violence. One study in Washington showed that 70% of people who identified as trans or nonconformist in their sexual identity reported harassment, intimidation and violence.

    http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2013/0...athroom-study/
    So what's your point? If you stand out as a square peg trying to fit in a round hole, there's going to be friction, regardless of law, and regardless of the stick figure on the door. My point was, if I'm a girl in the women's locker room or restroom, and I see a large person <who I don't know...> enter who appears to be a man, I have no way of knowing what's on their mind. They might be the sweetest person, but I'm going to quietly and quickly get out of Dodge. If I can't escape, I might well dial 911 BEFORE I go to the nearest liberal website to see if my feelings of nervousness are offensive to some fringe group or other. Is it fair to put me in that situation? Are the believers in rape culture now telling me that its a fantasy, that I've no reason to be nervous and I ought to "man up"?

    On the other hand if whatever the person is looks more or less like what's supposed to be there, I'm probably not going to notice. No law required, nobody nervous or offended.


    The issue as I see it is solving a problem by creating other, bigger ones.

    Here's a proposed transgender rights law <tongue somewhat in cheek>: "Foxes will henceforward be allowed in the chicken house upon submission of an affidavit stating their sincere belief that they are chickens"
    Last edited by Maxx; 04-Apr-2016 at 18:53.

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