Windows 10 is a joke.

This is precisely what drives me up the wall with Windows. It does whatever it "wants" to, and with no regard for what it has been commanded to do. Even killing errant tasks is something it generally won't do the first time it's asked; you have to nag it. And automatic updates? Don't even get me started. It's especially fun when you have a laptop in an airport and you need to shut it down to board your plane... nope, sorry, can't be shut down right now, gotta update things! If you shut the system down forcefully you might lose your data! Sit and wait, and make the plane wait for you too. It does the exact opposite of what it was commanded to do. It's just very... disrespectful toward the user all the way around. Every time I use it (mostly at work these days) I want to put my fist through the screen. I hate babysitting computers. >.<

Sapphyre said:

This is precisely what drives me up the wall with Windows. It does whatever it "wants" to, and with no regard for what it has been commanded to do. Even killing errant tasks is something it generally won't do the first time it's asked; you have to nag it. And automatic updates? Don't even get me started. It's especially fun when you have a laptop in an airport and you need to shut it down to board your plane... nope, sorry, can't be shut down right now, gotta update things! If you shut the system down forcefully you might lose your data! Sit and wait, and make the plane wait for you too. It does the exact opposite of what it was commanded to do. It's just very... disrespectful toward the user all the way around. Every time I use it (mostly at work these days) I want to put my fist through the screen. I hate babysitting computers. >.<

Click to expand...

I know what you mean! Windows is so inflexible and irritating sometimes. I had a play with Windows 10 for a few days, but the user-interface is so ugly, bloated and tedious to use that I went straight back to 7. I don't know why Microsoft don't allow you to choose the GUI, like you can in GNU/Linux. I'd stick with an XP-interface if I could. At least GNU has XFCE, which is clean, lightweight and intuitive.

Maxx said:

I don't use 10 (yet), but in past versions I've found that updates sometimes override your settings, ie, set to manual update, but then when you do a manual update, resets to automatic.

Click to expand...

Always double triple and quadruple check

tiny said:

I know what you mean! Windows is so inflexible and irritating sometimes. I had a play with Windows 10 for a few days, but the user-interface is so ugly, bloated and tedious to use that I went straight back to 7. I don't know why Microsoft don't allow you to choose the GUI, like you can in GNU/Linux. I'd stick with an XP-interface if I could. At least GNU has XFCE, which is clean, lightweight and intuitive.

Click to expand...

Actually, my favorite window manager for Linux / BSD is "cwm." Especially, it works well on laptops. It takes a little getting used to -- almost everything is keyboard-driven. There are no taskbars, no menubars, no title bars on windows, etc. It really maximizes screen space. And on laptops, that's important.... as is not having to use the trackpad all the time. ^^ But things like toggling between virtual desktops, moving and resizing windows, bringing windows to the forefront on top of other windows, launching new programs and closing windows... is basically all done by keyboard. Once you get over the learning curve it's quite nice. It's become a favorite. Although FluxBox is a close 2nd.

The main thing though, is that under Linux / BSD, my computer just does what I tell it to -- the first time -- no more and no less. When I tell it to shutdown, it just shuts down... no "Oh wait I need to spend an hour updating now, don't turn me off!" When I tell it to kill a program that has locked up, I only need to ask once. On Windows, in my experience it's usually 3 times. You say "End Task" and it's all "OK...*does nothing*" So you have to ask again and again before it finally decides that you REALLY want to end the task and does it. And then there are DRM issues... I had to replace my mainboard a few years back because the original one failed on me; if I'd been running Windows, I'm fairly sure that would have involved a call to Microsoft to unlock Windows for me since it's now "on a different computer". I'm certainly not shelling out hundreds of dollars for the privilege of dealing with this. I should maybe mention as a side-note that I didn't buy my computer, I built it from parts. So it didn't "come with" Windows, I'd have to buy that separately if I wanted it. As it is, my desktop is dual-booted with Gentoo Linux and OpenBSD. I don't expect I'll be buying a copy of Windows anytime soon.

Sapphyre said:

This is precisely what drives me up the wall with Windows. It does whatever it "wants" to, and with no regard for what it has been commanded to do. Even killing errant tasks is something it generally won't do the first time it's asked; you have to nag it. And automatic updates? Don't even get me started. It's especially fun when you have a laptop in an airport and you need to shut it down to board your plane... nope, sorry, can't be shut down right now, gotta update things! If you shut the system down forcefully you might lose your data! Sit and wait, and make the plane wait for you too. It does the exact opposite of what it was commanded to do. It's just very... disrespectful toward the user all the way around. Every time I use it (mostly at work these days) I want to put my fist through the screen. I hate babysitting computers. >.<

Click to expand...

I've never really had an issue with it "doing whatever it wants". As for the airport thing why not set your power button to engage hibernate mode?

Little understanding on how the Windows operating system works you can circumvent 99.9% of problems that users commonly have about the operating system " doing whatever it wants".

But whenever it comes to anything computer-related you always need to take an active stance on your settings and understanding what your computer is doing and why it changes things. if not you're opening the door and inviting trouble in.

w0lfpack91 said:

I've never really had an issue with it "doing whatever it wants". As for the airport thing why not set your power button to engage hibernate mode?

Little understanding on how the Windows operating system works you can circumvent 99.9% of problems that users commonly have about the operating system " doing whatever it wants".

But whenever it comes to anything computer-related you always need to take an active stance on your settings and understanding what your computer is doing and why it changes things. if not you're opening the door and inviting trouble in.

Click to expand...

For a start, the point is that my computer should just do what I tell it to do, not the opposite. Secondly, on my laptop from work which runs Windows 7, I do not have admin privileges, Finally, yes, it's important to understand the details of one's OS, but with Windows it just does a lot behind your back by default until you find ways to disable that. And to me, that is very disrespectful to the user. By way of contrast, OpenBSD had to be manually configured to hibernate when I closed the lid on my laptop -- by default, closing the lid did nothing at all. In general, OpenBSD / Linux doesn't do ANYTHING that I have not expressly told it to do. Unlike a bratty 5-year-old, I don't have to constantly watch it to see what it's up to behind my back, nor tell it to do anything more than once. The user experience is quite different, and makes me feel far less inclined to defenestrate my computer.

Sapphyre said:

Actually, my favorite window manager for Linux / BSD is "cwm." Especially, it works well on laptops. It takes a little getting used to -- almost everything is keyboard-driven. There are no taskbars, no menubars, no title bars on windows, etc. It really maximizes screen space. And on laptops, that's important.... as is not having to use the trackpad all the time. ^^ But things like toggling between virtual desktops, moving and resizing windows, bringing windows to the forefront on top of other windows, launching new programs and closing windows... is basically all done by keyboard. Once you get over the learning curve it's quite nice. It's become a favorite. Although FluxBox is a close 2nd.

Click to expand...

Yeah -- I remember the simple days of Unix before fully-fledged "desktop environments" even existed. But I find XFCE great because it's as lightweight as a window manager, but has a nice, simple intuitive interface that requires no learning of keyboard shortcuts, etc.

The great thing about GNU/Linux is that you are in control, and there's so much choice. And these choices are here by design, rather than requiring hacks to wrestle the OS into some kind of usable format.

Sapphyre said:

The main thing though, is that under Linux / BSD, my computer just does what I tell it to -- the first time -- no more and no less. When I tell it to shutdown, it just shuts down... no "Oh wait I need to spend an hour updating now, don't turn me off!" When I tell it to kill a program that has locked up, I only need to ask once. On Windows, in my experience it's usually 3 times. You say "End Task" and it's all "OK...*does nothing*" So you have to ask again and again before it finally decides that you REALLY want to end the task and does it.

Click to expand...

It took me a long time to find a GNU/Linux distro that I could actually wrap my head round. But Arch Linux does everything I need. It's amazing! :-D People think it's complicated, but it really depends how your brain works, I think. I find Ubuntu complicated/bloated, but Arch is just a breath of fresh air!

Sapphyre said:

And then there are DRM issues... I had to replace my mainboard a few years back because the original one failed on me; if I'd been running Windows, I'm fairly sure that would have involved a call to Microsoft to unlock Windows for me since it's now "on a different computer". I'm certainly not shelling out hundreds of dollars for the privilege of dealing with this. I should maybe mention as a side-note that I didn't buy my computer, I built it from parts. So it didn't "come with" Windows, I'd have to buy that separately if I wanted it. As it is, my desktop is dual-booted with Gentoo Linux and OpenBSD. I don't expect I'll be buying a copy of Windows anytime soon.

Click to expand...

Yep -- when I heard about the new Windows XP "activation" and the fact that installation CDs would no longer be supplied with new computers, I just decided to buy retail versions of the OS. I can't see myself using Windows 10 any time soon, though, retail or not.

What annoys me so much about Windows 10 is the unnecessary eye-candy, the embedded advertising, the privacy issues, the lack of control/flexibility and the fact that it's just so unnecessarily bloated.

w0lfpack91 said:

I've never really had an issue with it "doing whatever it wants". As for the airport thing why not set your power button to engage hibernate mode?

Little understanding on how the Windows operating system works you can circumvent 99.9% of problems that users commonly have about the operating system " doing whatever it wants".

But whenever it comes to anything computer-related you always need to take an active stance on your settings and understanding what your computer is doing and why it changes things. if not you're opening the door and inviting trouble in.

Click to expand...

If you've never used an operating system like Unix/GNU where you have complete control, you probably aren't even aware of all the things that Windows does for you without your explicit permission.

If you're technically-minded and want to be in control of your device, it's really infuriating when the OS assumes it knows best, or refuses to work in the way that you want!

tiny said:

Yeah -- I remember the simple days of Unix before fully-fledged "desktop environments" even existed. But I find XFCE great because it's as lightweight as a window manager, but has a nice, simple intuitive interface that requires no learning of keyboard shortcuts, etc.

The great thing about GNU/Linux is that you are in control, and there's so much choice. And these choices are here by design, rather than requiring hacks to wrestle the OS into some kind of usable format.



It took me a long time to find a GNU/Linux distro that I could actually wrap my head round. But Arch Linux does everything I need. It's amazing! :-D People think it's complicated, but it really depends how your brain works, I think. I find Ubuntu complicated/bloated, but Arch is just a breath of fresh air!



Yep -- when I heard about the new Windows XP "activation" and the fact that installation CDs would no longer be supplied with new computers, I just decided to buy retail versions of the OS. I can't see myself using Windows 10 any time soon, though, retail or not.

What annoys me so much about Windows 10 is the unnecessary eye-candy, the embedded advertising, the privacy issues, the lack of control/flexibility and the fact that it's just so unnecessarily bloated.



If you've never used an operating system like Unix/GNU where you have complete control, you probably aren't even aware of all the things that Windows does for you without your explicit permission.

If you're technically-minded and want to be in control of your device, it's really infuriating when the OS assumes it knows best, or refuses to work in the way that you want!

Click to expand...

If your a Unix/Linux user you understand that a lot of systems can be set to perform specific tasks when parameters are met. Microsoft controls the market and is needed for most software. While a lot can be run in Wine it's normally buggy as hell, also there is the option of running a virtual machine with windows. If they are tech savvy enough to have a problem with the lack of control then they are also savvy enough to know several alternitives, there's dual boot setups and virtual machines, there is also running wine if you are willing to risk the instability. The point is there are several options and they don't cost anything except the time to set them up.

Sapphyre said:

For a start, the point is that my computer should just do what I tell it to do, not the opposite. Secondly, on my laptop from work which runs Windows 7, I do not have admin privileges, Finally, yes, it's important to understand the details of one's OS, but with Windows it just does a lot behind your back by default until you find ways to disable that. And to me, that is very disrespectful to the user. By way of contrast, OpenBSD had to be manually configured to hibernate when I closed the lid on my laptop -- by default, closing the lid did nothing at all. In general, OpenBSD / Linux doesn't do ANYTHING that I have not expressly told it to do. Unlike a bratty 5-year-old, I don't have to constantly watch it to see what it's up to behind my back, nor tell it to do anything more than once. The user experience is quite different, and makes me feel far less inclined to defenestrate my computer.

Click to expand...

Disrespectful to the user or not Microsoft is not open source and therefore are allowed to do as they please with their software. Also probably 80% of windows users don't understand how a computer works they just expect it to work. Microsoft Windows operates based on the needs and skill level of its target audience. It's simplicity is what put it as far ahead.

As far as work computers, that's an issue you need to take up with your company IT dept. Again most people are clueless about computers so employers set it to take care of itself without you.

Bringing your concerns to your company will have far better results than complaining online.

tiny said:

Yeah -- I remember the simple days of Unix before fully-fledged "desktop environments" even existed. But I find XFCE great because it's as lightweight as a window manager, but has a nice, simple intuitive interface that requires no learning of keyboard shortcuts, etc.

The great thing about GNU/Linux is that you are in control, and there's so much choice. And these choices are here by design, rather than requiring hacks to wrestle the OS into some kind of usable format.



It took me a long time to find a GNU/Linux distro that I could actually wrap my head round. But Arch Linux does everything I need. It's amazing! :-D People think it's complicated, but it really depends how your brain works, I think. I find Ubuntu complicated/bloated, but Arch is just a breath of fresh air!



Yep -- when I heard about the new Windows XP "activation" and the fact that installation CDs would no longer be supplied with new computers, I just decided to buy retail versions of the OS. I can't see myself using Windows 10 any time soon, though, retail or not.

What annoys me so much about Windows 10 is the unnecessary eye-candy, the embedded advertising, the privacy issues, the lack of control/flexibility and the fact that it's just so unnecessarily bloated.



If you've never used an operating system like Unix/GNU where you have complete control, you probably aren't even aware of all the things that Windows does for you without your explicit permission.

If you're technically-minded and want to be in control of your device, it's really infuriating when the OS assumes it knows best, or refuses to work in the way that you want!

Click to expand...

I haven't tried Arch Linux yet... though I just might. ^^

- - - Updated - - -

w0lfpack91 said:

Disrespectful to the user or not Microsoft is not open source and therefore are allowed to do as they please with their software. Also probably 80% of windows users don't understand how a computer works they just expect it to work. Microsoft Windows operates based on the needs and skill level of its target audience. It's simplicity is what put it as far ahead.

As far as work computers, that's an issue you need to take up with your company IT dept. Again most people are clueless about computers so employers set it to take care of itself without you.

Bringing your concerns to your company will have far better results than complaining online.

Click to expand...

Disrespectful to the user. It pops up windows on top of whatever you're doing if something goes wrong in another application, it ignores your commands or does the exact opposite, it takes forever to start up, it tends to include ads and do stupid things like Autorun every CD-ROM that is inserted, etc, etc. Not worth paying for. In addition, once upon a time I had a legit copy of Windows 98 that came with my Gateway PC... and the printed activation code was wrong. So when I had to re-install the OS, I had to spend over 11 hours on the phone with Microsoft to get it to work. I'm not going through that again just because I've upgraded my mainboard or video card or etc. I don't have the patience for that.

w0lfpack91 said:

Disrespectful to the user or not Microsoft is not open source and therefore are allowed to do as they please with their software. Also probably 80% of windows users don't understand how a computer works they just expect it to work. Microsoft Windows operates based on the needs and skill level of its target audience. It's simplicity is what put it as far ahead.

Click to expand...

And that's exactly why technically-minded people often find Windows lacking.

Don't get me wrong -- Windows is great for the average person. I wouldn't recommend GNU/Linux to any of my mates. Windows will do what they want and be easier (for them) to use.

More technically-minded people, however, will find the locked-down "our way is the only way" restrictions of Windows to be quite infuriating.

Sapphyre said:

I haven't tried Arch Linux yet... though I just might. ^^

Click to expand...

You'll need to read the wiki and follow the steps. Everything is explained (step-by-step), so you don't need to be a Linux pro to set it up. You just need to be patient, methodical, and look up anything you don't understand.

But it's so rewarding! By the time you've gone through the installation process, you've effectively had a full tour of the inner-workings of the system and know how to configure everything. And it's so damned stable!

If you have any questions about it, or get stuck, post a thread and I'll try to help!

Sapphyre said:

Disrespectful to the user. It pops up windows on top of whatever you're doing if something goes wrong in another application...

Click to expand...

ARGH!!! How many times have I been working on an important document and hit "return" to start a new paragraph at exactly the same time as the "Please press okay to reboot and lose your work" message appears, and the f***ing thing reboots without confirmation!!! WTF?!?!?!?!?!

Sapphyre said:

... it ignores your commands or does the exact opposite, it takes forever to start up, it tends to include ads and do stupid things like Autorun every CD-ROM that is inserted, etc, etc. Not worth paying for. In addition, once upon a time I had a legit copy of Windows 98 that came with my Gateway PC... and the printed activation code was wrong. So when I had to re-install the OS, I had to spend over 11 hours on the phone with Microsoft to get it to work. I'm not going through that again just because I've upgraded my mainboard or video card or etc. I don't have the patience for that.

Click to expand...

If you can get your head round the idea that Arch doesn't do anything for you unless you ask, and you have to spend some time setting up your system and reading the wiki, then... you're going to love Arch Linux!

tiny said:

And that's exactly why technically-minded people often find Windows lacking.

Don't get me wrong -- Windows is great for the average person. I wouldn't recommend GNU/Linux to any of my mates. Windows will do what they want and be easier (for them) to use.

More technically-minded people, however, will find the locked-down "our way is the only way" restrictions of Windows to be quite infuriating.



You'll need to read the wiki and follow the steps. Everything is explained (step-by-step), so you don't need to be a Linux pro to set it up. You just need to be patient, methodical, and look up anything you don't understand.

But it's so rewarding! By the time you've gone through the installation process, you've effectively had a full tour of the inner-workings of the system and know how to configure everything. And it's so damned stable!

If you have any questions about it, or get stuck, post a thread and I'll try to help!



ARGH!!! How many times have I been working on an important document and hit "return" to start a new paragraph at exactly the same time as the "Please press okay to reboot and lose your work" message appears, and the f***ing thing reboots without confirmation!!! WTF?!?!?!?!?!



If you can get your head round the idea that Arch doesn't do anything for you unless you ask, and you have to spend some time setting up your system and reading the wiki, then... you're going to love Arch Linux!

Click to expand...

Actually OpenBSD is that way deliberately. They don't want people who can't RTFM using their OS. It's written by hackers, for hackers. And they spend a lot of time on the documentation for it. The installer is text-based but usually the defaults are exactly what you'd want. But then after it's installed, things need to be configured. How to do that is explained on the website and in the man pages. By default it is very bare-bones. It doesn't support my video card on my desktop PC (or more accurately, nVidia does not support OpenBSD), but it's like a dream on my laptops. Other than configuring, e.g., what happens when the lid closes... everything "just works." And installing new programs is generally a breeze. And their security measures are just off-the-charts... things like randomized memory allocation, making executable sections of memory non-writable, by default setting "canary" values around the bounds of an array... etc. OpenBSD doesn't do ANYTHING unless you ask it to, and work out how to ask it to. Also, on that topic... be wary of asking questions in a forum about OpenBSD that are already answered in the documentation. You'll be in for it. ^^ In fact, there's even a t-shirt about it: I got flamed by Theo de Raadt. Theo is the founder of OpenBSD, btw. ^^

Sapphyre said:

Actually OpenBSD is that way deliberately. They don't want people who can't RTFM using their OS. It's written by hackers, for hackers. And they spend a lot of time on the documentation for it. The installer is text-based but usually the defaults are exactly what you'd want. But then after it's installed, things need to be configured. How to do that is explained on the website and in the man pages. By default it is very bare-bones. It doesn't support my video card on my desktop PC (or more accurately, nVidia does not support OpenBSD), but it's like a dream on my laptops. Other than configuring, e.g., what happens when the lid closes... everything "just works." And installing new programs is generally a breeze. And their security measures are just off-the-charts... things like randomized memory allocation, making executable sections of memory non-writable, by default setting "canary" values around the bounds of an array... etc. OpenBSD doesn't do ANYTHING unless you ask it to, and work out how to ask it to. Also, on that topic... be wary of asking questions in a forum about OpenBSD that are already answered in the documentation. You'll be in for it. ^^ In fact, there's even a t-shirt about it: I got flamed by Theo de Raadt. Theo is the founder of OpenBSD, btw. ^^

Click to expand...

Ha ha! That sounds like Arch! If you don't RTFM, you will be ignored or flamed. But... that does keep the forums clear of pointless waffle and means that the wiki is very-much to-the-point. The fucking manual is actually pretty good and usually tells you everything you need to know!

But you can still get really good help if you're a newbie. You're just expected to try to help yourself first.

I always meant to have a look at BSD, but I heard that it was dying out... It seemed to be a real contender with GNU/Linux at one point. I don't really know much about it, to be honest. How does it differ from GNU?

tiny said:

I always meant to have a look at BSD, but I heard that it was dying out... It seemed to be a real contender with GNU/Linux at one point. I don't really know much about it, to be honest. How does it differ from GNU?

Click to expand...

The essential difference is the "cathedral" versus the "bazaar" model of development. GNU / Linux is kind of stitched together, each component being worked on by an independent author, and then made to be compatible in a distro. By contrast, the BSD's are developed as a whole OS by a small team working together. The applications are still written by others, of course, but the core functionality of the system is written to be one package. So it naturally all works together flawlessly. FreeBSD is the most common, but my favorite is OpenBSD.

As an example, the "ls" command in any of the BSD's is not GNU's "ls". It is specific to the BSD and part of their OS. It's written separately from GNU.

tiny said:

And that's exactly why technically-minded people often find Windows lacking.

Don't get me wrong -- Windows is great for the average person. I wouldn't recommend GNU/Linux to any of my mates. Windows will do what they want and be easier (for them) to use.

More technically-minded people, however, will find the locked-down "our way is the only way" restrictions of Windows to be quite infuriating.

Click to expand...

Actually, totally not true. While windows does set itself up as an OS meant to be used for less techy savvy people, it has tons of advanced settings that can practically change anything you do not like about it. Also the great thing is almost everyone develops their software for Windows. Chances are if Windows can't do it, their is a free open-source or paid (if your willing to spend the cash) programs that can.

I am a very tech-savvy person myself, and that is the exact reason I like windows. Because if you know what you are doing nothing is really a problem. You want to change the GUI? .. you actually can and there are tons of programs that allow you to do so. It's like a video game that you can mod. So it doesn't come with features you like out of the box ... big deal. That is an impossible task because it's an OS meant to be mainstream, meant to be used by the world. That doesn't mean it can't do those things. You just need to know how to change it to the way you like, and it's really not all that hard. Google tends to be a good start and chances are there will be an answer and solution for what you want Windows to do, or not do.

It's not locked-down. It's not "our way is the only way" ... because if you knew how to use windows at all, you would know that isn't true.

MarchinBunny said:

Actually, totally not true. While windows does set itself up as an OS meant to be used for less techy savvy people, it has tons of advanced settings that can practically change anything you do not like about it. Also the great thing is almost everyone develops their software for Windows. Chances are if Windows can't do it, their is a free open-source or paid (if your willing to spend the cash) programs that can.

I am a very tech-savvy person myself, and that is the exact reason I like windows. Because if you know what you are doing nothing is really a problem. You want to change the GUI? .. you actually can and there are tons of programs that allow you to do so. It's like a video game that you can mod. So it doesn't come with features you like out of the box ... big deal. That is an impossible task because it's an OS meant to be mainstream, meant to be used by the world. That doesn't mean it can't do those things. You just need to know how to change it to the way you like, and it's really not all that hard. Google tends to be a good start and chances are there will be an answer and solution for what you want Windows to do, or not do.

It's not locked-down. It's not "our way is the only way" ... because if you knew how to use windows at all, you would know that isn't true.

Click to expand...

Windows is very "locked-down" from a programmer perspective, the whole OS is locked down same goes with OSX It's less locked down then for example the XBOX OS, but it's still very locked-down.

Microsoft only gives you access to what they want you to use, there are parts of the WINAPI that only Microsoft and partner companies know about which they use to there advantage to fuck over the competition, obviously you can always reverse engineer and use specific functions in the WINAPI , the wine project has had this problem, API functions do whatever the fuck they want, in there own way without prediction, it's even noticeable in earlier versions of windows where if it detected a non-MS version of dos for example DR-DOS it would disable specific functions etc.

For example, lets make up a function called hello_world it's documented to print hello world, but the winAPI does something totally different to what is documented for example.

hello_world documented would do the following
print(hello_world) it appears to print hello world.

What it actually does
4 + 4 * 3
load a char of letters for no reason
print the cars in a list
hello, world.

Same goes with graphics cards and hardware, believe it or not even Intel processors and AMD graphics cards for example are very locked down, not performance wise but driver wise It's practically impossible to code drivers for a lot of hardware without reverse engineering it even than you won't get anywhere near the full performance of the card awhile back the open source AMD drivers for Linux were shit compared to the closed source AMD drivers, things have changed but from a programmers perspective even the hardware is locked down.

Programming wise you're limited to what WINDOWs can do, you can't modify any of it's source code like you can with linux and make it do things you want it to do.

Some good examples of it being locked down programming wise is the following.
You can't change things in the windows kernel, or compile the windows kernel for mobile devices or older hardware.
It locks down some of the hardware, for example in most versions of windows you're limited to how much ram or processors you can actually use. if you wanted 24 cores for example you'll most likely need to use windows server.
You can't change or modify any of the internals.
Bug fixes, for example if I find a bug in microsoft windows, I can patch it myself and submit a patch, I have to sit back and hope microsoft patches it (this is the reason why most zero days exist for many years before there found.

I'm not bashing windows or anything, but it is indeed very locked down but to a non-programmer won't make a difference which OS someone uses.

Binary said:

-Snip-

Click to expand...

I wasn't referring to programming when I said windows isn't locked-down. I don't even think tiny was referring to programming.

Also, you wrote that like as if everyone who uses Linux programs their own patches and shit which is so not true. You are talking about a very small minority here. Not many people who use Linux go about trying to program it in a way they specifically like it. So your point here is pretty irrelevant for the most part.

Also, I got news for you, bugs in Linux can sometimes take years to find too. So your point again isn't really good.

Anyway, regardless, I wasn't talking in a programming sense anyway, so you wasted your time writing a big paragraph. In fact, I think you likely already knew I wasn't talking about that but you just wanted to be a smartass about it. Yep, it's locked down in a programming perspective .. so? We are talking a very small minority of people who benefit from an OS not being locked down programming wise. It's not what most people are talking about.

Anyway, I will admit your comment frustrates me. I don't like when people misunderstand things I say which makes them rant about something I wasn't even talking about.

Edit: Also ya, I agree with you. If you are a programmer and want to program your OS to suit your needs, then Windows is most certainly not that OS. But again, not many people do such things, to the point I don't even think it's really worth mentioning like you did.

MarchinBunny said:

I wasn't referring to programming when I said windows isn't locked-down. I don't even think tiny was referring to programming.

Also, you wrote that like as if everyone who uses Linux programs their own patches and shit which is so not true. You are talking about a very small minority here. Not many people who use Linux go about trying to program it in a way they specifically like it. So your point here is pretty irrelevant for the most part.

Also, I got news for you, bugs in Linux can sometimes take years to find too. So your point again isn't really good.

Anyway, regardless, I wasn't talking in a programming sense anyway, so you wasted your time writing a big paragraph. In fact, I think you likely already knew I wasn't talking about that but you just wanted to be a smartass about it. Yep, it's locked down in a programming perspective .. so? We are talking a very small minority of people who benefit from an OS not being locked down programming wise. It's not what most people are talking about.

Anyway, I will admit your comment frustrates me. I don't like when people misunderstand things I say which makes them rant about something I wasn't even talking about.

Edit: Also ya, I agree with you. If you are a programmer and want to program your OS to suit your needs, then Windows is most certainly not that OS. But again, not many people do such things, to the point I don't even think it's really worth mentioning like you did.

Click to expand...

Sorry I'm a bit dunk LD should of specified i was drunking when i write that post lol I've got a quator of kim bean left

Binary said:

Sorry I'm a bit dunk LD should of specified i was drunking when i write that post lol I've got a quator of kim bean left

Click to expand...

Wow, you HAVE had a few. And waitaminute... you drink Jim Beam? Blech! If you're going to get smashed on whiskey, my personal favorite is Jameson 12-year. But then, it's really better not to get smashed in the first place. A little now and then is OK, but to the point you can barely type... too much, not healthy.

Getting back to the main point though...

My old netbook came with Windows 7 "Starter" which is a very watered-down version of Win 7. And it ran DOG SLOW. It took almost a full 5 minutes to completely boot up to the point where I could actually use it. Right out of the box. It runs OpenBSD now and boots in seconds. And there are other reasons besides programming that people might prefer GNU/LInux or BSD... one of them being security. OpenBSD has been around since 1995, and as their website will tell you, they've had 2 remote security vulnerabilities in the default install EVER. They are also responsible for developing OpenSSH and OpenSSL, now widely used. Quoting from their website:
"OpenBSD believes in strong security. Our aspiration is to be NUMBER ONE in the industry for security (if we are not already there). Our open software development model permits us to take a more uncompromising view towards increased security than most vendors are able to. We can make changes the vendors would not make. Also, since OpenBSD is exported with cryptography, we are able to take cryptographic approaches towards fixing security problems."

That's mainly what I like about them. They do a lot of really nifty things to keep the whole system secure... memory cannot be simultaneously writable and executable, arrays have "canary" values at their boundaries to check for buffer overflows, malloc() (memory allocation, for non-programmers) is randomized so a hacker can't guess where the memory location will be, etc, etc. I don't reprogram my OS (no need), but patches to OpenBSD are given in the form of "diffs" to the original source code, and the changes are always interesting for me to see. They strive for "correctness" in their code.

Oh, and since the whole thing is BSD-licensed, you can do anything you want with the software and source code. Use portions of it to make a commercial product if you want to. The license is far more liberal than even the GPL. Not that I've ever done such, but since I am a programmer, it's nice to know the option is there.

Also, Microsoft only permits full-disk encryption in certain versions of Windows 10, and even then, the key is uploaded to their servers automatically. At least from what I read: howtogeek.com.

Final note to Binary,.. try not to do anymore "drunking" on "kim bean", OK? ^^;;