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Thread: Online friend trying to turn me into a Islamophobic

  1. #1

    Default Online friend trying to turn me into a Islamophobic

    He will sometimes keep showing me links to stories about Muslims doing bombings or an attack to justify his hatred towards them. He has even shown he a statistic about more of them doing terrorism than other religious groups and all of the other religious groups were close to zero percent and the Muslim percentage was high.

    But I wonder why does it keep being reported that Muslims are doing these things? What about Jew bombers or Christian bombers, or Mormon bombers and any other religious bombers? Why don't these get reported in the media but Muslims doing these things? What is it with Muslims doing these things and no other groups? Why them?

    But am I just wrong here and he is right, is terrorism and killings really part of their religion? Please help me understand. I would hate to quit talking to him because he keeps bringing this up as if he wants me to hate Muslims. But what if I am just uncomfortable with the truth because I refuse to fall into stereotypes? I don't like to generalize and say all of them do it.

  2. #2

    Default

    Nothing can ever justify hatred towards an entire ethnic or religious group based on the actions of a minority. Certain Muslims are terrorists. So what? So are certain Caucasians. We're only a couple of generations (if that) from the heyday of the Weather Underground, or the IRA, or the Red Army Faction. You can't judge all people of European extraction from them, so why should you judge all Muslims by the behaviour of a few?

    Whether or not killing is a part of Islam is really quite irrelevant. Turning the other cheek is supposedly part of Christianity, but that didn't stop the Crusades, or centuries of internecine religious warfare between different Christian sects. Like most people of any religious persuasion, Muslims make God in their own image. They disregard the parts of the Quran that don't agree with their own personal philosophies. There are some who interpret particular passages as justifying the slaughter of the Infidel, but the majority do not. Ideology is an excuse for behaviour, not a reason for it. There are a variety of reasons why certain Muslims become radicalised, but it's more about cultural and individual context than anything inherent to the religion.

    Increased attentiveness to what is going on in the Muslim community may well be justified, but wariness is not the same thing as hatred, even if it can lead to it.

    I'd also note that the media reports what is news. Not what is truth or fact. Even if they have to construct the narrative. An quasi-apocalyptic clash of cultures sells in certain quarters. That doesn't make it entirely true.
    Last edited by Akastus; 16-Dec-2015 at 00:42.

  3. #3

    Default

    There was an interesting editorial in our local newspaper today, written by a woman. She pointed out that a number of terrorist shootings in the U. S. were perpetrated by self proclaiming Christians and she asked, would all of us who are Christians, want to labeled as Christian terrorist. Using the reasoning that many Americans are, including Donald Trump, if there a just a few Christian terrorist, it stands to reason that all Christians are terrorists.

    I think you need to ask your friend to stop talking about Muslims. Just tell him that it upsets you and you need more peace in your life.

  4. #4

    Default

    Depending on your level of free time and how much effort you want to put in, I would suggest you fact check him. Fact check every single claim he makes. Then confront him on things he claims that are not true. I routinely do this on Facebook to all my friends. If you post something false and I can prove it you are going to hear it from me. There is simply too much bull shit being spread and it really needs to stop. Just to be clear I'm suggesting this is done in a civilized manner. I wouldn't start accusing him of anything. Simply say you looked into it and x , y , and z are incorrect and provide your proof and please make sure the proof is from a legitimate site.

    As for why the Muslim involved attacks are so publicized, I believe that is simply because of ratings. And people simply don't want to hear that someone of their own religion/ethnicity/interest has done something wrong or bad. The news shows do not want to upset their viewers with news that the viewers may take personally offensive and hurt their ratings.

    I recently added up a count of the US government's estimations on foreign terrorist organization in the world and the number is surprisingly small. And by that I mean if we were to assume all terrorists are Muslims (which they aren't) less than .1% of the Muslim population are terrorists. That's 1/10th of 1 percent.

    My point is do the research and become informed. Question everything. Even what I just posted. My math could be wrong or I could be using skewing the statistics to say what I want them to say.
    Last edited by Technologic; 16-Dec-2015 at 10:44.

  5. #5

    Default



    Quote Originally Posted by Akastus View Post
    Nothing can ever justify hatred
    They disregard the parts of the Quran that don't agree with their own personal philosophies. There are some who interpret particular passages as justifying the slaughter of the Infidel, but the majority do not.
    .
    They are not cherry picking the Quran, they're doing exactly what is written, which why the extremists behave as they do.
    They are the least guilty when it comes to cherry picking their religious scripts.

    Even in Christianity it says to vanquish non believers, which brought on the Crusades, but Christians eventually realized not to take the bible so literal.
    But ALL people are guilty of cherry picking their religion to benefit themselves.

    As for the media, I couldn't agree more with you. Like most things reported, it'll be written to please its people and less about truth.
    History is written by those who win the wars.

  6. #6

    Default



    Quote Originally Posted by edward321 View Post
    They are not cherry picking the Quran, they're doing exactly what is written, which why the extremists behave as they do.
    They are the least guilty when it comes to cherry picking their religious scripts.

    Even in Christianity it says to vanquish non believers, which brought on the Crusades, but Christians eventually realized not to take the bible so literal.
    But ALL people are guilty of cherry picking their religion to benefit themselves.

    As for the media, I couldn't agree more with you. Like most things reported, it'll be written to please its people and less about truth.
    History is written by those who win the wars.
    he's right they aren't cherry picking. The Quran is the testimony of Muhammad a 7th century warlord and politician who was no stranger to spreading his religion by the sword, the Hadith are records of his doings sayings and laws. If you look for the sword in Islam you will find it. The problem today comes from more and more muslims looking to fund the sword. Most of the global politics and societal progress of the past half century have driven muslims to extremes to fundamentalism.

    Islam needs today internal voices of reason. and hating them blindly is not going to help that happen

  7. #7

    Default



    Quote Originally Posted by edward321 View Post
    They are not cherry picking the Quran, they're doing exactly what is written, which why the extremists behave as they do.
    They are the least guilty when it comes to cherry picking their religious scripts.

    Even in Christianity it says to vanquish non believers, which brought on the Crusades, but Christians eventually realized not to take the bible so literal.
    But ALL people are guilty of cherry picking their religion to benefit themselves.

    As for the media, I couldn't agree more with you. Like most things reported, it'll be written to please its people and less about truth.
    History is written by those who win the wars.
    I was referring to the majority of Muslims, not the extremists. My point is that it doesn't really matter what the Quran says about slaying the Infidel, because the majority of Muslims pay no more attention to that than the majority of Christians do to most of what is written in Leviticus. You cannot predict the behaviour of the average adherent of a long-established religion merely from the central holy text, and certainly not from its most outspoken exponents.

    A lot of what lies behind Islamic extremism has nothing to do with religion at all. Rising dissatisfaction towards corrupt, autocratic governments in the Gulf; Arab nationalism in the face of Western political interference and cultural hegemony; a sense of alienation felt by some young Muslims growing up in majority non-Muslim societies, etc. There was one article I read recently that suggested that the lives of some young Muslims are so regimented, that becoming hyper-religious is actually a form of rebellion, since it gives them grounds to criticise their parents with impunity - since those criticism are sanctioned by a higher authority. Another suggested that women's liberation has "emasculated" young Muslim men, and becoming Jihadis is somehow a way of recapturing their virility, and making them feel like men again. However you look at it, it's a phenomenon that is as much, if not more, about culture than religion. I'll re-emphasis - ideology (whether religious or political) is an excuse for behaviour, not a reason for it.

  8. #8

    Default

    All of the religions that I'm aware of have tales of violence. Even Buddhism, which is heavily pacifist in today's world, has a history of violent sects and teaches the tale of the Monkey King, whose martial prowess allowed for recovery of the sacred texts and their return to China. Of the monotheistic religions, all three of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam have had wars fought in their names.

    Moreover, it is true today that several extremist groups use ideology that references Islam and the Quran as a way to legitimize and justify their actions. These people encourage those who have religious faith to turn to their cause and have, without a doubt, succeeded in recruiting disenfranchised people from many parts of the world to their cause.

    What you should NOT do, is to assume that every Muslim is part of an extremist group. The statement "these Muslim groups are really bad" is true when referring to the extremist military groups. The statement "all Muslims are really bad" is not true because there are approximately 1.5 billion Muslims in the world and only a tiny number of them participate in terror. Even if the percentage is higher than other religions, the raw numbers are such that well over a billion people who call themselves Muslims have done no harm and have no plans to do harm to others.

  9. #9

    Default

    I try to avoid bigots when befriending people...

  10. #10
    MarchinBunny

    Default

    Another weird subject for me, where I likely would have a less popular view point.

    Why do people follow religions in the first place if they don't follow them? I know that sounds weird because it is weird. There are so many people claiming to be Christian, Muslim, Jewish, etc. But then they don't follow half the things in the religion. Does it not stand to reason, that if you are going to not take one part literally .. then maybe you should do the same with the whole dang thing?

    I mean ... how exactly do you decide what to take literally and what not to in these books? It's incredibly hypocritical.

    I personally, don't like any religion. I am not a bigot, as there are plenty of reasons ... good reasons to dislike them. Granted I don't hate people who follow a religion, but I certainly am not happy about it when I hear they do.

    There are even some people who discount the entire book besides the idea of that specific god existing. How does that work. You learned about that god through the book you no longer believe. Why would you then believe the god that is written in there?

    Personally speaking, just because other religions also happen to have violent histories doesn't make the issues any less problematic. If anything ... it brings to light another problem. Maybe we should be going after other religions too. Not the people in the religion .. but the religions itself. All they do is spread hatred .. why allow that?

    Sure ... not everyone is like that .... which are the people not following the dang religion in the first place. So again ... get rid of it. Why have it ... if you don't follow it.

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