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Thread: Self acceptance

  1. #1

    Default Self acceptance

    (WARNING: This is kind of a dark philosophical position.)

    Is self acceptance a matter of convincing yourself that there is nothing wrong your behavior?

    I've known all my life that there is something wrong with wearing and using diapers based on desire rather than actual need. Some people will justify this behavior on the grounds that it isn't harming anyone, but in reality, this behavior does expose yourself and others to potential harm. Much like drinking and driving in itself isn't harmful but is still wrong because it increases the potential of causing serious harm. The fallout from ABDL activity isn't lethal, as it is with drinking and driving, but it still is capable of causing serious emotional harm. It ruins marriages, the basic building block of society.

    There are many ways to rationalize this behavior: it's not my fault; I didn't ask for this; I'm not responsible for how others think; it's harmless; everybody has something to hide; other people do things just as bad or worse; I can live my own life any way I choose. But it's not always easy to separate rationalizations from delusions when it comes to moral values.

    The bottom line for me is, self acceptance means accepting myself as I am right now - a creature with ambiguous moral values that may never change.

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drifter View Post
    The bottom line for me is, self acceptance means accepting myself as I am right now - a creature with ambiguous moral values that may never change.
    A creature with ambiguous moral values that may never change is a pretty good description of the human condition. If you go by traditional Christian dogma, we're all sinners, and venial sin seems to cover the majority of day-day-to-day human behaviour. None of us are perfect, and the acceptance of imperfection is at the root of the concept of tolerance. People who think that they are perfect, especially morally, are at best unpleasant to be around, at worst, downright dangerous. The very term self-acceptance inherently implies wrestling with your own imperfection.



    Quote Originally Posted by Drifter View Post
    But it's not always easy to separate rationalizations from delusions when it comes to moral values.
    True, but that works both ways. It's not just the possibility of deluding yourself into thinking that something harmful is acceptable, but equally the opposite - condemning something perfectly harmless just because it makes you uncomfortable. You say that you've known all your life that there is something wrong with wearing and using diapers based on desire. What is the foundation of that "knowledge"? The only sure basis for claiming to know anything is the existence of incontrovertible evidence, and there is no such evidence in the field of moral philosophy. You can't use your own experiences and feelings as a guide for human behaviour - they're unique to you. And while there is evidence that humans do have certain innate moral instincts, just as much of your behaviour, if not more, is governed by cultural conditioning in early childhood. No man is cut from virgin cloth.



    Quote Originally Posted by Drifter View Post
    It ruins marriages, the basic building block of society.
    I can't agree. What ruins marriages is the failure of both parties to be absolutely honest with one another before they get married, and that's a far wider problem than unusual sexual preferences. Far too many people get into marriage with no true understanding of who the other person is, or equally bad, the delusion that their spouse will change for their sake. Glossing over or ignoring areas of fundamental incompatibility is no basis for any relationship. The problem, as I see it, is that modern culture seems to heavily push the idea that love is all you need to make a relationship work. Something that has never been true. Getting married should not be a decision governed purely by your heart.

    In this particular case, the AB/DL needs to come clean about their predilections, and their prospective spouse needs to be absolutely honest about whether or not they can accept those predilections.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Akastus
    It's not just the possibility of deluding yourself into thinking that something harmful is acceptable, but equally the opposite - condemning something perfectly harmless just because it makes you uncomfortable.
    One of the things I find morally objectionable is hypocrisy. But I can't avoid being a hypocrite if I use my own moral standards to justify my behavior while condemning someone else for following their own moral code. Some people can justify theft or murder using the same process I use to justify my own deviant behavior. Theft and murder are illegal, but in my moral code illegal is not the same as immoral. Those people are essentially doing the same thing I'm doing, so, if they are morally guilty of something, then I must be too. Is this a delusion? ...or would it be a delusion to deny this? This is what I'm asking myself.


    The problem, as I see it, is that modern culture seems to heavily push the idea that love is all you need to make a relationship work. Something that has never been true. Getting married should not be a decision governed purely by your heart.

    In this particular case, the AB/DL needs to come clean about their predilections, and their prospective spouse needs to be absolutely honest about whether or not they can accept those predilections.
    Love is a possibility, but absolute honesty is most likely not possible. Unless two people have met at some kind of ABDL meeting, by the time an acquaintance becomes a "prospective spouse" there have already been emotional attachments made based on withholding the complete truth. Having someone become emotionally attached to you before disclosing this kind of truth is dishonest, but it is the only practical thing to do because you don't want to blab your little secret the moment you meet someone you find attractive. This may be the point where you want to be honest but the truth will most likely be watered down rather than absolute. If you love pissing and/or shitting in diapers and would really enjoy being changed by the prospective spouse, is this what you would tell them? Probably not. You would most likely start off slow and see what kind of reaction you get. If the reaction is negative at that point, the only honest thing to do would be to break off the relationship. You may be charming enough to get someone to accept you, but you will never be able to be "absolutely honest" about it after that.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drifter View Post
    Is self acceptance a matter of convincing yourself that there is nothing wrong your behavior?

    I've known all my life that there is something wrong with wearing and using diapers based on desire rather than actual need. Some people will justify this behavior on the grounds that it isn't harming anyone, but in reality, this behavior does expose yourself and others to potential harm. Much like drinking and driving in itself isn't harmful but is still wrong because it increases the potential of causing serious harm. The fallout from ABDL activity isn't lethal, as it is with drinking and driving, but it still is capable of causing serious emotional harm. It ruins marriages, the basic building block of society.

    There are many ways to rationalize this behavior: it's not my fault; I didn't ask for this; I'm not responsible for how others think; it's harmless; everybody has something to hide; other people do things just as bad or worse; I can live my own life any way I choose. But it's not always easy to separate rationalizations from delusions when it comes to moral values.

    The bottom line for me is, self acceptance means accepting myself as I am right now - a creature with ambiguous moral values that may never change.
    I suppose the alternative is acknowledging that there IS something wrong with your behavior but convincing yourself that you just don't care.

  5. #5

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    As I see it self acceptance came after dealing with the guilt and shame of the purge cycle followed by the pressure of the binge cycle and then the repeat of the purge cycle.

    With the help of this support group and a therapist I gained self acceptance.

    What this is to me is that I came to an understanding of the situation I was in. I do not see a "moral" connection.

    The "code" of right or wrong is a bases of social covenant, and the social acceptance or disapproval is a factor. However, the whole things done in private become the main consideration.

    I have turned the binge and purge cycle into an ebb and flow thing, and use this situation as a coping mechanism is not a "moral dilemma"

    So I Am dancing around the issue, but it is not a "rationalization" for the behavior. It is a means of stopping the psychological self harm and dealing with a situation that I am in the control and not being controlled by it.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldDragonAurkarm View Post
    I suppose the alternative is acknowledging that there IS something wrong with your behavior but convincing yourself that you just don't care.
    If you really don't care then there is no need to convince yourself of that. Trying to convince yourself you don't care when you actually do care sounds delusional, so for me, personally, this is not an acceptable alternative.

    On the other hand, if you need to convince yourself there is nothing wrong with your behavior before you can have self acceptance, then there is the possibility that what you would be accepting is also a delusion. Maybe my point is too subtle to be meaningful, but I'm beginning to see true self acceptance as something that does not resort to some kind of justification.

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    Quote Originally Posted by egor View Post
    So I Am dancing around the issue, but it is not a "rationalization" for the behavior. It is a means of stopping the psychological self harm and dealing with a situation that I am in the control and not being controlled by it.
    The psychological benefits of your self acceptance are great and I'm not saying they should be ignored. I'm just saying that, for me, I'm pushing the envelope a little in an attempt to reach acceptance that is not based on justification. The things I do may be right or wrong, good or bad, beneficial or harmful, but if I am to accept myself right now I have to accept these things as they are, not as how I might want them to be.

  7. #7

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    I take umbrage with your position Drifter. The truth is that I didn't chose to be attracted to diaper wearing. When I was caught by my mom, I was sent to a mental institution. The truth is that we, and I hesitate to say "suffer" but fall under the purview, Infantile Paraphelia. Like it or not, it is a psychological condition that is not considered normal. If one really has this condition, and I suspect there are some posers on this site, but if the condition is real, there are no cures. There is only finding ways to keep it under control so that we can lead healthy, productive and healthy lives.

    If you feel that wearing diapers is a conflict of values, then don't wear. Leave the lifestyle if you can, but if you can't, then you have Infantile Paraphelia. The better road is to make peace with yourself. It's taken me years to do that, but having accomplished that, I become defensive toward anyone who suggests that my lifestyle is destructive to myself, my wife or others in my life.

    I'm reminded of that asshole Steve Harvey who had a wonderful time making fun of the poor idiot who used the bad judgement of going on his show. If it had been me on his pathetic show, there would have been a very different outcome, but I have enough sense to keep this behind my own closed doors. And there lies a valid point, that our goals on a site such as this, is to not just enable our members to make this work in their lives, but to empower them in an otherwise judgmental and stupid world.

    As others such as GoldenDragon have said, every human is flawed. There will always be conflicts in our lives with others, because that's part of the human condition. Either a spouse accepts us or doesn't, but would we be accepted if we were bi-polar, depressive, schizophrenic? Some spouses are giants, such as my wife, and some are shallow wastes of flesh. Choose wisely and move on.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drifter View Post
    If you really don't care then there is no need to convince yourself of that. Trying to convince yourself you don't care when you actually do care sounds delusional, so for me, personally, this is not an acceptable alternative.

    On the other hand, if you need to convince yourself there is nothing wrong with your behavior before you can have self acceptance, then there is the possibility that what you would be accepting is also a delusion. Maybe my point is too subtle to be meaningful, but I'm beginning to see true self acceptance as something that does not resort to some kind of justification.
    I contemplate that they're facets of the same gemstone, though. Or rather, I think the "delusion" is a stepping stone to the thing you describe, if it exists.

    Let's push this past ABDL a minute into something a little more mainstream and perhaps a little less close to home for you.

    Lots of people, including me once upon a time, "know" there is a god. At some point, their faith gets shaken, but they still "know" there's a god. So then there's a conundrum. Do they rationalize that their doubts were unfounded? Do they convince themselves they don't care what they "know?" Do they ditch their previous faith and "justify" it based on their doubts?

    I don't think one can get to self-acceptance without doubts, without justifications, without rationalizations; at least not with anything major. No one who's struggled with their sexuality has gone immediately to self-acceptance. No one who's deconverted from their religion has just up and done it. I'm not talking about the people that had accepting parents and a welcoming environment and just were "always" gay, and I'm not talking about the people that never were religious. In a struggle for self-acceptance, there has to be a certain amount of justification and rationalization to keep the process moving. It's a stepping stone, as it were. It pushes aside the doubt long enough to continue exploring, continue learning, continue self-assessment, continue continuing, continue putting one foot in front of the next.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by dogboy View Post
    I take umbrage with your position Drifter. The truth is that I didn't chose to be attracted to diaper wearing. When I was caught by my mom, I was sent to a mental institution. The truth is that we, and I hesitate to say "suffer" but fall under the purview, Infantile Paraphelia. Like it or not, it is a psychological condition that is not considered normal. If one really has this condition, and I suspect there are some posers on this site, but if the condition is real, there are no cures. There is only finding ways to keep it under control so that we can lead healthy, productive and healthy lives.

    If you feel that wearing diapers is a conflict of values, then don't wear. Leave the lifestyle if you can, but if you can't, then you have Infantile Paraphelia. The better road is to make peace with yourself. It's taken me years to do that, but having accomplished that, I become defensive toward anyone who suggests that my lifestyle is destructive to myself, my wife or others in my life.
    Sorry if you got the impression I was judging your actions, or anyone else's. I'm exploring some of my rationalizations and it's beginning to appear that the need for rationalizing anything emotional indicates some kind of unresolved moral conflict. To me, self acceptance means to accept my questionable moral values and not worry about how they can be rationalized. But that's just me.

    Based on what you say, there are mental health experts, probably far more intelligent than me, who would claim that I have infantile paraphilia disorder. I have no reason to doubt these people exist, or that they are right in their own way. I don't know if the disorder is curable or not, but, for practical and/or selfish reasons, I am no longer inclined to find out.



    I become defensive toward anyone who suggests that my lifestyle is destructive to myself, my wife or others in my life.
    There are people in my life I dearly love, but I would lie to them about my diaper desires if it ever came up. The selfish reasons for this are obvious, but maybe not so obvious is the fact that they could be hurt by this knowledge. Memories would be tarnished. There are a number of ways I can rationalize this so it looks like the pain would be their own fault, not mine. But, in reality, I will continue to engage in behavior that risks making people I love unhappy. Self acceptance means accepting this fully without watering it down with phony rationalizations. But again, that's just me.


    I'm reminded of that asshole Steve Harvey who had a wonderful time making fun of the poor idiot who used the bad judgement of going on his show. If it had been me on his pathetic show, there would have been a very different outcome, but I have enough sense to keep this behind my own closed doors. And there lies a valid point, that our goals on a site such as this, is to not just enable our members to make this work in their lives, but to empower them in an otherwise judgmental and stupid world.
    Careful. This is my world you are talking about.

    Steve Harvey is socially acceptable, generally. We aren't. Sucks... but, oh well. Maybe if I actually saw that particular incident I would be enraged too. But I didn't see it. And, anyway, I'd be too much of a chicken to confront Steve Harvey directly so what right would I have to judge him?


    As others such as GoldenDragon have said, every human is flawed. There will always be conflicts in our lives with others, because that's part of the human condition. Either a spouse accepts us or doesn't, but would we be accepted if we were bi-polar, depressive, schizophrenic? Some spouses are giants, such as my wife, and some are shallow wastes of flesh. Choose wisely and move on.
    Every human is flawed. No one is perfect. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of god. Seems like perfect excuses to do anything we damn well please, but there's a catch. Our judgemental nature makes us want to rank flaws according to how "bad" they are. Some people are perfecter than others. Your evil is badder than my evil, or vice versa. We are all evil. I am evil. Can I accept that without rationalizing that my evil isn't as bad as someone else's evil?

    I'm just thinking "out loud". Sorry if it looks like ranting.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldDragonAurkarm View Post
    Lots of people, including me once upon a time, "know" there is a god. At some point, their faith gets shaken, but they still "know" there's a god. So then there's a conundrum. Do they rationalize that their doubts were unfounded? Do they convince themselves they don't care what they "know?" Do they ditch their previous faith and "justify" it based on their doubts?
    Like many people I was able to blend my Christian beliefs with my scientific beliefs without too much trouble. Reading about Buddhism, however, was more difficult because it caused an uncomfortable shift in my fundamental beliefs, but I was too curious to ignore it. At present, I have no reason to believe that either science or religion will be able to explain the mystery of life. All I have is a little bit of faith that an understanding is possible.


    I don't think one can get to self-acceptance without doubts, without justifications, without rationalizations; at least not with anything major. No one who's struggled with their sexuality has gone immediately to self-acceptance. No one who's deconverted from their religion has just up and done it. I'm not talking about the people that had accepting parents and a welcoming environment and just were "always" gay, and I'm not talking about the people that never were religious. In a struggle for self-acceptance, there has to be a certain amount of justification and rationalization to keep the process moving. It's a stepping stone, as it were. It pushes aside the doubt long enough to continue exploring, continue learning, continue self-assessment, continue continuing, continue putting one foot in front of the next.
    Ever feel like you are trying to make the jump to hyperspace on a riding lawnmower? As I ramble on about "self acceptance" it occurs to me that I don't even know what a "self" is. Any definition I give for it is bound to be a delusion, and that is what I am trying to avoid.

    Getting back to earth, I believe you are right and that what we refer to as self acceptance is nothing more than the right combination of rationalizations, justifications, and delusions that allow us to feel satisfied with the way we are. If this is correct then I guess what I'm really trying to do is escape from the pursuit of self acceptance. Self acceptance may be satisfying but it might also become an obstacle to the search for truth.

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