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Thread: Is This Sexist or Demeaning?

  1. #1

    Question Is This Sexist or Demeaning?

    So I have a fetish for women wearing diapers.
    Nothing new 'round these parts. Yeah, I can get off to the idea of myself wearing/using/regressing, but I mostly focus on the idea of a woman wearing/using/regressing.

    But...it's starting to occur to me...I think maybe it's wrong/unfair to women to fantasize about them like this in my head.

    In my fantasy, I'm controlling a whole other human being. By fantasizing about her regression (even if it's just an emotional regression, where she retains her mental faculties but just wants to act like a baby), I feel like I'm stripping a wonderful person of the traits that she would likely take pride in(her ambitions, her role in society, etc), and causing her existence to suddenly COMPLETELY revolve around and depend on me. Even if, in my fantasy, she and I are just ageplaying in the bedroom, the power dynamic has started to bug me more and more lately.

    Yes, these are just fantasies, and I'd never ACTUALLY want to do this to a person (except maybe bedroom ageplay), but should I feed a part of me that finds joy in the subjugation of a fellow human being, even if that subjugation is imaginary and hypothetical?

    And, honestly, it doesn't just stay some little fantasy that I can pull out and put away. For example, I dated a woman for a month, and she was SUPER-accepting of my abdl-ism. However, when I would start to say/do things that infantilized her, she would look at me and say, "Don't infantilize me." She seemed to feel demeaned or disrespected by it. And honestly, in a relationship where she expects to always be my partner, my equal, and never my subordinate, viewing her in an infantilizing way kind of WAS disrespectful, in my opinion.

    Maybe if I didn't have this fetish, if the idea of her acting like a baby wasn't super-hot to me, I'd have had no problem always treating her like an equal. But sometimes, my sexual side wanted to see her on the floor, in a diaper, being passive and dependent and docile and playful and cute. But that just ISN'T HER. And it's just not healthy to want that from my partner, is it?

    I mean, lately, when I look at women as a whole, at everything women have done and are capable of doing as 50% of the human race, I can't put them into that baby archetype without feeling guiltier than I used to.

    So, what do you think? Is it demeaning to infantilize women? Why or why not? I'd especially love to hear the opinions of women. Ladies, if you're ABDL, how do you separate your submissive, babyish persona from your productive-member-of-society persona, and how do you expect to be treated in your idea of a healthy relationship? If you're not ABDL, how does the idea of a man turned on by the concept of you in a diaper, acting like a baby, make you feel?

  2. #2

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    I don't see a problem with the actual fantasy of finding a woman to regressed and playing as an ABDL to be attractive to be a problem.

    As far as I can tell, it only becomes a problem when you force a woman to regress and treat her as a little and infantalize her when she has not expressed any desire to be treated as such. The vast majority of people do not want to be treated as little and would really not appreciate that. However, there are female ABDLs that do enjoy being little, and treated exactly as you want to treat them. However, unless you have found that woman and the two of you have clearly communicated that you both want to participate in this age play, then it's demeaning to treat her as such.

    So basically, the fantasy is fine, but enacting that fantasy on a partner who doesn't want to regress is not.

  3. #3

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    Basically what Gsmax said.

    I'm a female ab/dl. It's just sort of my, well, nature, to be a submissive, dependent baby, and I would enjoy being treated as such. However, I personally would prefer it if my caregiver was taking care of me because it was something he enjoys doing for me on an emotional level, not just sexual. Being an adult baby is an emotional, comforting thing for me, not a sexual one, and I guess I would feel rather put-off if Daddy was just using me to get his kicks.

    Of course, everyone is different, so there's probably some women out there who wouldn't mind. Have you heard of daddy dom/little girl relationships in BDSM? That sounds a bit like what you're looking for, and it seems to me there's a lot more of these female ''littles'' then there are female ab/dl's. Some of these women probably consider their ''littleness'' purely sexual, or at least partly sexual, so what you would like to offer would appeal to them.

    Like I said, being ab, for me, seems to just be a really really big part of my personality, perhaps too much. So a caregiver for me would have to recognize that I'm not just someone playing a role, I'm acting out who I want to be, feel to be. So I feel that a person who just wants me to be babyish for sexual gratification, and doesn't want to take on the responsibility of basically raising an adult child, is the wrong caregiver. But that's just me.

    Edit: Although seeing this past thread of yours, stating you're looking for a non-sexual relationship, I'm not entirely sure what specifically you're looking for: https://www.adisc.org/forum/showthre...Is-It-Worth-It If you're saying you're asexual, and only get off on your kinks, then that adds an extra layer of difficulty to finding the right person.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by LazyDreamer View Post
    So I have a fetish for women wearing diapers.
    Nothing new 'round these parts. Yeah, I can get off to the idea of myself wearing/using/regressing, but I mostly focus on the idea of a woman wearing/using/regressing.

    But...it's starting to occur to me...I think maybe it's wrong/unfair to women to fantasize about them like this in my head.

    In my fantasy, I'm controlling a whole other human being. By fantasizing about her regression (even if it's just an emotional regression, where she retains her mental faculties but just wants to act like a baby), I feel like I'm stripping a wonderful person of the traits that she would likely take pride in(her ambitions, her role in society, etc), and causing her existence to suddenly COMPLETELY revolve around and depend on me. Even if, in my fantasy, she and I are just ageplaying in the bedroom, the power dynamic has started to bug me more and more lately.

    Yes, these are just fantasies, and I'd never ACTUALLY want to do this to a person (except maybe bedroom ageplay), but should I feed a part of me that finds joy in the subjugation of a fellow human being, even if that subjugation is imaginary and hypothetical?
    Let's take the ABDL aspect out of this for a moment...

    If you were one of those straight guys who think that women are "only good for sex and making sandwiches" then are being sexist and demeaning. Any kind of "only good for one thing" outlook on any group of people is demeaning. At the same time there's nothing wrong with thinking of someone in a sexual way, finding them attractive, fantasizing about them, wanting to get off with them - provided you also recognise they are a fellow human being, with their own will, and not a plaything for you.

    With the age-play dynamic added, I suppose it depends on how you look at it: Age-play allows you to be depend upon another person, and yes they have power over you, but they also have a responsibility to care for you - and they know that you could walk away from them if they fail you. The idea that you're stripping someone of their achievements or role in society: those will still continue to exist, and they'll still be there when the age play scene ends, but isn't it nice in a way to show someone that you love them even without their ambitions, achievements, role in society? It would be rather weird to love someone because they were say, a doctor or a company director...

    If you could only love a woman who had no career, ambitions or role in society independent of you that is a problem [Ed: although come to think of it this has been the way most men related to most women for most of human history - which is mostly fucked up, but there you go...] As long as the rest of the time her ambitions and success make you happy and you support her it's not a massive issue if three or four hours a week you indulge in some age-play and express the fact that even without everything else you still love her.



    And, honestly, it doesn't just stay some little fantasy that I can pull out and put away. For example, I dated a woman for a month, and she was SUPER-accepting of my abdl-ism. However, when I would start to say/do things that infantilized her, she would look at me and say, "Don't infantilize me." She seemed to feel demeaned or disrespected by it. And honestly, in a relationship where she expects to always be my partner, my equal, and never my subordinate, viewing her in an infantilizing way kind of WAS disrespectful, in my opinion.
    It was disrespectful for you to say/do things that infantilized your former girlfriend when she had asked you not to. However I think this is more an issue with your relationship to this particular woman, rather than a general problem. This woman could accept YOU as an ABDL, but she didn't want that role for herself. It's her choice if she wants to be infantilized, and if she choice is "no" you should respect that. Also someone may enjoy ageplay within the context of an agreed play session, but not enjoy it if you treat them in as a baby in real life (I know I don't.) As a relationship goes on and trust deepens, people may get comfortable enough to slip in and out of "care-giver/baby" and "equal partners" relationship dynamics from moment to moment, but that's a longer-term issue. This doesn't mean you can't have a healthy and equal relationship that also involves age-play sometimes.



    Maybe if I didn't have this fetish, if the idea of her acting like a baby wasn't super-hot to me, I'd have had no problem always treating her like an equal. But sometimes, my sexual side wanted to see her on the floor, in a diaper, being passive and dependent and docile and playful and cute. But that just ISN'T HER. And it's just not healthy to want that from my partner, is it?
    It can be healthy if that's what your partner wants from you. Your partner could be a very successful, powerful person, (more successful, more powerful and richer than you) and as long as you are happy for that to be the case, as long as you support them, as long as they know your respect for them as an independent adult is genuine... well for some women playing your baby sometimes is not going to be a problem.

    In the end age-play is theater, and plenty of people would love to be married to the actor playing the lead in Macbeth - but not if he starts taking the scheming and stabbing off stage.

  5. #5

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    Just my unqualified opinions:

    Boy, you sure got a lot going on inside your head. First off, your fantasies have no power over women. None. Zilch. They aren't capable of being demeaning or unfair to women. Your actions can be demeaning to real women, but your fantasies can't.

    Secondly, all males with active sex drives have fantasies. Women in your life will feel waves of disrespect if they think you are using them as a caricature of your fantasies, no matter what those fantasies are. ABDL play is a rare cultural perversion, so that complicates things more than the "normal" t&a fantasies would, but they are still just fantasies. You are concerned about crossing the line between sharing your fantasies with a loved one, and using another person, disrespectfully, as a tool to fulfill your fantasies. But it's not a line, it's an indefinite range. Just be honest with yourself so you can stop trying to second guess your motives.

    Thirdly, if you want an equal get a clone. Otherwise forget this "equal" bs; it's meaningless.

    You may want a little salt with this.

  6. #6

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    Thanks, KimbaStarshine, but I'm not too worried about whether my partner will want to ageplay with me. If she's right for me and she doesn't want to, then we won't ever do it. My worry is that, even if a woman WANTED to roleplay with an imbalanced aged dynamic, glorifying the subjugation of women might be harmful.

    After all, it seems to have harmed women socially in the past. For example, the whole damsel-in-distress trope likely entered culture because thinking about saving helpless women made some men feel good. But now, society views women as something fragile to be protected. I'm worried that my ABDL fetish does something similar. I'm not turned on primarily by a woman's intelligence or strength of character; Those are important qualities, to be sure, and I don't think I could ever date someone who WASN'T intelligent and noble of character. However, I'm turned on by her being a helpless baby in my arms. I'm worried that I have to choose between forsaking my fetish or knowingly embracing sexist, un-empowering fantasies. I really hope I'm wrong, and that embracing fantasies of a women in a helpless situation doesn't perpetuate stereotypes or anything, but I don't know.

    To clarify that other post that you linked to, I'm just as sexual as most people, but I don't believe in having sex before marriage. That said, I thought that having diaper play in my sex life with my future wife would be important to me, so I wanted to know if it was worth it to seek a relationship with a girl who is also ABDL, and who also wanted to put her ABDL side on hold until marriage. However, I realize that such a person is so rare that I may do well just to stop searching for an ABDL partner.

  7. #7

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    There is a gross difference between a fetish and actually thinking that women have to be a specific way. As others have said, it only becomes a problem when you try to force a partner into indulging in a fetish he/she doesn't enjoy. There is no shortage of people in healthy relationships who view power play dynamics as nothing more than kinky fantasy. It does sound odd, but many people are able to keep a rigid division between what they actually believe (and how they behave) and sexual roleplay. There isn't some slippery slope where one's fetishes automatically end up dictating their beliefs and behavior toward other people. One's kinky roleplay can be opposite of how they truly are. Obviously, I don't advocate any sort of domestic violence or actions of power disparity; I would view a lover as an equal. However, that wouldn't stop me from indulging in mild submission or domination and spanking in the bedroom if I had a lover who was into that sort of thing.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by LazyDreamer View Post
    Thanks, KimbaStarshine, but I'm not too worried about whether my partner will want to ageplay with me. If she's right for me and she doesn't want to, then we won't ever do it. My worry is that, even if a woman WANTED to roleplay with an imbalanced aged dynamic, glorifying the subjugation of women might be harmful.

    After all, it seems to have harmed women socially in the past. For example, the whole damsel-in-distress trope likely entered culture because thinking about saving helpless women made some men feel good. But now, society views women as something fragile to be protected. I'm worried that my ABDL fetish does something similar. I'm not turned on primarily by a woman's intelligence or strength of character; Those are important qualities, to be sure, and I don't think I could ever date someone who WASN'T intelligent and noble of character. However, I'm turned on by her being a helpless baby in my arms. I'm worried that I have to choose between forsaking my fetish or knowingly embracing sexist, un-empowering fantasies. I really hope I'm wrong, and that embracing fantasies of a women in a helpless situation doesn't perpetuate stereotypes or anything, but I don't know.

    To clarify that other post that you linked to, I'm just as sexual as most people, but I don't believe in having sex before marriage. That said, I thought that having diaper play in my sex life with my future wife would be important to me, so I wanted to know if it was worth it to seek a relationship with a girl who is also ABDL, and who also wanted to put her ABDL side on hold until marriage. However, I realize that such a person is so rare that I may do well just to stop searching for an ABDL partner.
    I can understand the concern, but I think in the grand scheme of things it's pretty unimportant. One's sexual leanings are only one small facet of their life. As long as one understands that fantasies and roleplay are one thing, and real life is another, everything should be fine. There's really no point in worrying about something you have no say over, doesn't hurt anyone, and only occupies a small part of your life.

    Let's change the situation around for a moment: what if you were attracted to men being helpless babies? Then I'm sure you wouldn't have such concerns. Or what if the traditional damsel-in-distress sexism never existed? Then you wouldn't feel bad either. What I'm getting at is don't let the unfortunate norms society has created make you feel bad about your fetish.
    Last edited by KimbaWolfNagihiko; 28-Nov-2015 at 02:58. Reason: missing word

  9. #9

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    If you where shooting people in the head so you could care for them or kidnapping women and chaining them up do you had a ready supply of playthings yes you would be wrong,but a private bedroom fantasy no, and Hitler did not fantasize about genocide he just went and did, there was never a rastional fantasy that got out of hand with that dude,he was plain Jane sickoo.

  10. #10

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    Not a woman but I can't say I see too much of a problem with your fantasy. I mean if you find such a female that would indeed be interested and happy to oblige such a role it seems it would be a win win for both sides. There are females and males and those that identify as neither or both that would enjoy that, probably. I knew someone that pretty much wanted just that. You just have to find someone willing and to consent to such a thing that would actually be happy to do so. As long as both sides are happy, that's all that matters.

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