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Thread: Ben carson

  1. #1

    Default Ben carson

    I could not tell if this should go in the mature forum or this one so move if needed if Ben Carson was president he said he would make a bathroom for transgender people i wanted everyones thoughts on this?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiW5D62667U
    Last edited by zackiepooh1992; 11-Nov-2015 at 00:04.

  2. #2

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    Awesome! I don't expect to need it, but I like his idea.

  3. #3

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    IMHO, it is a poor idea. People jump up and down and scream that they don't want a member of the opposite sex sharing the same bathroom or locker room as them, but have no clue as to what life challenges a transgender person faces. I'm not transgender, but even I can appreciate the arguments made for allowing someone to use the appropriate gender restroom.

    The arguments about having someone of the opposing sex not sharing a locker room or bathroom stem from the idea that people don't want a member of the opposite sex ogling their body. Much like men will look a good-looking woman up and down and get aroused viewing naked women, people are afraid that is what will happen if transgender people are allowed in the same area. It's preposterous. If people don't want someone to look at their naked bodies who might become aroused by it, then we should ban lesbian women and gay men together with transgender individuals. Nobody pays attention to the fact that transgender people go into the bathroom or locker room for the same reason as anyone else--to take care of their business.

    If someone thinks bathrooms should be strictly limited to those of one sex or another, would they care to give the reasoning behind it here?

    Honestly, the current Republican candidates and their viewpoints are scary. I'm becoming more and more enamored with the idea of 'none of the above'.

  4. #4

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    I thin Ben Carson is suffering from early onset dementia. He's been saying a lot of crazy bat-shit things, suck as: Joseph having the great pyramids built to store grain. Did Dr. Carson every study ancient history?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AnalogRTO View Post
    If someone thinks bathrooms should be strictly limited to those of one sex or another, would they care to give the reasoning behind it here?
    My response to this has nothing to do with Ben Carson, so forgive me if I am hijacking this thread in any way. I actually could care less about him or what he may have to say.

    But something that was shared here I think deserves a bit of consideration. And that is exactly what I want to share... CONSIDERATION.

    It is important that while we may look at our own interests or those of others and encourage the right to present ourselves as we see ourselves, there certainly is appropriate places and inappropriate places to do so --all in the manner of being considerate of others.

    Perhaps some may disagree, but I for one, would say that going out in public in nothing but a diaper and a t-shirt and walking around in a mall or other public place is not appropriate. --"But wait" you may say, "Hold on there TeddyBear! Shouldn't we have the right to express ourselves as how we feel and really are? I mean, come on! Wearing a diaper isn't indecent! Babies go around in just diapers all the time!"

    So, let me explain, as a person who is strongly ABDL, yes, I associate myself with being a baby and love to wear diapers. It is part of the person I am inside. This feeling isn't going to go away anytime soon. It is part of how I identify myself as a person inside. It is really me!

    So, why shouldn't it be okay for me to openly express this with others in the public view? Don't I have a right to do this?

    I have also shared here on ADISC that while it is not a dominant thing, I have a little girl side as well. Shouldn't I have the right to go out in public and be the little girl that I sometimes am?

    HEAVENS NO!!! --Even if it was not considered illegal or indecent, it would be inconsiderate of myself to think that my right of expressing myself as an ABDL should trump the rights of the majority of others who do not accept this, or simply do not want to see someone parading around in such attire. --Let alone little children who may not understand and be confused over this. As a parent myself, I would never want my own children to see someone doing this! I keep my ABDL side to myself and never do this in front of them. There are some things that are just not appropriate to do and certainly would be INCONSIDERATE of others to do so!

    So what the heck does this have to do with this thread? Well, I share the example of wearing nothing but a diaper in public as an example in addressing the question of sharing of occupied locker rooms or bathrooms with others of the opposite sex. Even if the opposite sex is only of physical nature (as they relate and associate with being of the same gender), is there not something to be said about being CONSIDERATE of others?



    Quote Originally Posted by AnalogRTO View Post
    The arguments about having someone of the opposing sex not sharing a locker room or bathroom stem from the idea that people don't want a member of the opposite sex ogling their body.
    The statement was given that the concern over this was having someone ogling over their body if this was to happen. That is such a small, if any, part of the true situation.

    Again, as a parent myself of both two boys and a girl, I would not have wanted my 12 year old daughter to be sharing a locker room and showers with a boy, even if the boy was really a girl inside. Nor would I have wanted my 12 year old son to be showering with a girl, even if the girl was really a boy inside.

    Why? Well, to state the obvious, there are certain physical makeups of the opposite sex of a human body that as a parent, I have a right to say that my child does not need to be exposed to in real life or see until they are older, period!

    This would also be true in the situation of a shared bathroom --but the threat I admit is lessened as there are separate stalls. Still, I wonder about how a child who is using a restroom might feel if someone of the opposite sex came into the restroom while they were there? Would a 10 year old (or even 16 year old) girl feel comfortable if she suspected that the 40 year old girl in the stall next to her was really a guy? Hmmm....

    This is not really much different than the discussion I shared about going out in nothing in a diaper in public. While the transgender person certainly has a need to associate with those whom he or she feels a part of, there are other people's needs to be considered as well. What ever happened to the whole concept of being considerate of others instead of just thinking of oneself?

    I hope that my comments do not spark a bunch of anger. Nor do I want to seem to suggest that because we are different we are not equal to those who we want to truly be or that we really are inside, even if our physical bodies are different. That is certainly not my intent.

    But even though I associate with being a baby, the reality is that my physical makeup is that of an adult. There are times and places I can be my baby self without infringing upon others and their desires to not associate with this. If I were to chose to live and to be as a baby in front of others in public, especially children, it would be forcing my own desires upon others and selfishly thinking my desires are more important than their own.

    When we approach this question, we need to realize that while we all should be able to be the person that we identify with, there are actions that we might assert as our "rights" that can and do infringe upon others "rights" as well.

    Teddy Bear Cowboy

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by zackiepooh1992 View Post
    I could not tell if this should go in the mature forum or this one so move if needed if Ben Carson was president he said he would make a bathroom for transgender people i wanted everyones thoughts on this?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiW5D62667U
    Um.... no. That's not really what he said, if you take "why not a transgender bathroom" in context. He said it wasn't right for a tiny minority to have "extra rights".

  7. #7

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    Gender neutral/transgender bathrooms have been a long time in the waiting. Imagine walking into a bathroom knowing there was always a risk someone would accuse you of being a pervert, or the risk of being beaten up. Imagine not being able to go in and do your business without every pair of eyes in there staring at you.

    This isn't about giving one minority extra rights... it's about protecting them.

    People who are against bathrooms for non-binary people have no logical argument, because not only does it not affect them in any way, it also keeps the transgender people out of "their" bathroom. Everybody wins.



    Quote Originally Posted by TeddyBearCowboy View Post
    My response to this has nothing to do with Ben Carson, so forgive me if I am hijacking this thread in any way. I actually could care less about him or what he may have to say.

    But something that was shared here I think deserves a bit of consideration. And that is exactly what I want to share... CONSIDERATION.

    It is important that while we may look at our own interests or those of others and encourage the right to present ourselves as we see ourselves, there certainly is appropriate places and inappropriate places to do so --all in the manner of being considerate of others.

    Perhaps some may disagree, but I for one, would say that going out in public in nothing but a diaper and a t-shirt and walking around in a mall or other public place is not appropriate. --"But wait" you may say, "Hold on there TeddyBear! Shouldn't we have the right to express ourselves as how we feel and really are? I mean, come on! Wearing a diaper isn't indecent! Babies go around in just diapers all the time!"

    So, let me explain, as a person who is strongly ABDL, yes, I associate myself with being a baby and love to wear diapers. It is part of the person I am inside. This feeling isn't going to go away anytime soon. It is part of how I identify myself as a person inside. It is really me!

    So, why shouldn't it be okay for me to openly express this with others in the public view? Don't I have a right to do this?

    I have also shared here on ADISC that while it is not a dominant thing, I have a little girl side as well. Shouldn't I have the right to go out in public and be the little girl that I sometimes am?

    HEAVENS NO!!! --Even if it was not considered illegal or indecent, it would be inconsiderate of myself to think that my right of expressing myself as an ABDL should trump the rights of the majority of others who do not accept this, or simply do not want to see someone parading around in such attire. --Let alone little children who may not understand and be confused over this. As a parent myself, I would never want my own children to see someone doing this! I keep my ABDL side to myself and never do this in front of them. There are some things that are just not appropriate to do and certainly would be INCONSIDERATE of others to do so!

    So what the heck does this have to do with this thread? Well, I share the example of wearing nothing but a diaper in public as an example in addressing the question of sharing of occupied locker rooms or bathrooms with others of the opposite sex. Even if the opposite sex is only of physical nature (as they relate and associate with being of the same gender), is there not something to be said about being CONSIDERATE of others?



    The statement was given that the concern over this was having someone ogling over their body if this was to happen. That is such a small, if any, part of the true situation.

    Again, as a parent myself of both two boys and a girl, I would not have wanted my 12 year old daughter to be sharing a locker room and showers with a boy, even if the boy was really a girl inside. Nor would I have wanted my 12 year old son to be showering with a girl, even if the girl was really a boy inside.

    Why? Well, to state the obvious, there are certain physical makeups of the opposite sex of a human body that as a parent, I have a right to say that my child does not need to be exposed to in real life or see until they are older, period!

    This would also be true in the situation of a shared bathroom --but the threat I admit is lessened as there are separate stalls. Still, I wonder about how a child who is using a restroom might feel if someone of the opposite sex came into the restroom while they were there? Would a 10 year old (or even 16 year old) girl feel comfortable if she suspected that the 40 year old girl in the stall next to her was really a guy? Hmmm....

    This is not really much different than the discussion I shared about going out in nothing in a diaper in public. While the transgender person certainly has a need to associate with those whom he or she feels a part of, there are other people's needs to be considered as well. What ever happened to the whole concept of being considerate of others instead of just thinking of oneself?

    I hope that my comments do not spark a bunch of anger. Nor do I want to seem to suggest that because we are different we are not equal to those who we want to truly be or that we really are inside, even if our physical bodies are different. That is certainly not my intent.

    But even though I associate with being a baby, the reality is that my physical makeup is that of an adult. There are times and places I can be my baby self without infringing upon others and their desires to not associate with this. If I were to chose to live and to be as a baby in front of others in public, especially children, it would be forcing my own desires upon others and selfishly thinking my desires are more important than their own.

    When we approach this question, we need to realize that while we all should be able to be the person that we identify with, there are actions that we might assert as our "rights" that can and do infringe upon others "rights" as well.

    Teddy Bear Cowboy
    This entire argument is transphobic and insulting. People who are offended by someone who is transgender are the ones with the problem, not the trans person. When it comes to "considering others" they can go screw themselves, to be perfectly honest. Human beings are the most loathsome creatures of the earth; they're sheep driven by media standards. That you and other people are not accepting of certain things shouldn't matter to personal happiness, especially when that happiness does nothing to harm them. So a child sees (what she has been raised, fed, indoctrined to perceive as) a male dressed in women's clothing, you think that's offensive? How about teaching her instead that it's okay? How about we end this ridiculous cultural obsession with gender stereotypes and binary? Wearing diapers has NOTHING to do with being transgender... gender dysphoria is a psychological condition, one that has even more grounding in science as being a psychological issue than homosexuality... and we, as other human beings, need to make more effort to incorporate that into our society, rather than shun them as being deviants.

    And I think it sad that you refuse to allow you to be who you are (a baby) because you're thinking of others. Don't you realise it's that attitude that leads to mental illness like anxiety and depression? Hiding who you truly are inside? Screw society man, screw the system!

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by AnalogRTO View Post
    The arguments about having someone of the opposing sex not sharing a locker room or bathroom stem from the idea that people don't want a member of the opposite sex ogling their body. Much like men will look a good-looking woman up and down and get aroused viewing naked women, people are afraid that is what will happen if transgender people are allowed in the same area. It's preposterous. If people don't want someone to look at their naked bodies who might become aroused by it, then we should ban lesbian women and gay men together with transgender individuals. Nobody pays attention to the fact that transgender people go into the bathroom or locker room for the same reason as anyone else--to take care of their business.
    Let's first stipulate that this is very much a cultural issue. While we're not predominantly muslim or orthodox jew, we're not nudists or pigmies out in the bush either. If the cultural norm is separate bathrooms/lockerrooms, then its reasonable for me to expect that any nudity I see is going to be people with more or less the same equipment I have. There's something seriously wrong with you if you think I'm going to consider what's in the head of some stranger with boobs and a twat who wanders into my locker room.

    If I stll had a young daughter, I'd be more than a little concerned about a 6 foot plus something in a dress with an adam's apple walks into the YMCA women's locker room disrobing to reveal..... tada!!! PTSD and all that. Not sure I would want her exposed to that, nor would I appreciate being forced into doing the 'splainin afterwards.

    Personally, I'd be fine with unisex locker rooms. Like most athletes, I'm far more casual about nudity and bodily functions than your average man or woman on the street. I'm also nearsighted enough that without my glasses, they've got to be pretty close for me to notice anything off. That said, unisex bathrooms and lockerrooms in all settings still gives me a bit of a hinky feeling.



    If someone thinks bathrooms should be strictly limited to those of one sex or another, would they care to give the reasoning behind it here?
    It is a thing that's specific to our culture, but TeddyBearCowboy does a nice job on the "why", mirroring what Dr. Carson said. If I have time, I'll elaborate a bit on his posts.



    Honestly, the current Republican candidates and their viewpoints are scary. I'm becoming more and more enamored with the idea of 'none of the above'.
    At least on topic, I didn't see anything in the OP's referenced clip that should frighten anyone. I'm not sure if I'll vote for Dr. Carson or not, but if you listen to him firsthand instead of getting secondhand, out of context gotchas from the liberal media, he's a very sharp guy.

    - - - Updated - - -

    This, in essence, is what Dr. Carson was saying in the clip, if you bothered to watch it. The "transgender bathroom" remark was a throwaway, not a campaign promise or even a proposal.



    Quote Originally Posted by TeddyBearCowboy View Post
    It is important that while we may look at our own interests or those of others and encourage the right to present ourselves as we see ourselves, there certainly is appropriate places and inappropriate places to do so --all in the manner of being considerate of others.
    I'm dogsitting today. Mrs. Junior just dropped off Juno the dog. In a few minutes, we'll be going for a long walk on public sidewalks, a public rails-to=trails, and on paths in a public forest preserve. Leashes are required in all those places, as they are pretty much everywhere in the Chicago Metro area except designated dog parks.

    Other users have a right to expect that any dogs they encounter will be leashed and under the owners control. Juno has been to obedience boot camp. She responds to voice and gesture commands, stops and looks at me for instructions at every intersection, and has been out with me enough to know she's not allowed to go for a swim in the pond or chase squirrels when we're on a "walk". I really don't need to have her on a leash. She's not going to lunge at anyone, and she'll come to heel when I give the command, but nobody else we encounter knows that!!!! That knowledge is in only my head and Juno's, although I exagerrate my commands a bit when others are around so they know I'm aware of them, and taking steps to keep Juno out of their way. Oncoming or passing path users have a right o go on their way without having to consider evasive actions or slow down from uncertainty about what we're going to do.

    Edit: I should have been clearer in the above paragraph. I always use a leash even though Juno doesn't need one to be under my control. Its a matter of consideration for others since they can't see inside my head. Or hers.

    Men in the ladies room and vice versa is exactly the same deal. Nobody else knows what's in your head. And honestly, if all it takes for a guy to go in the girls locker room with the cheerleaders is to say "I'm a girl", what's to stop someone from doing that, whether as a prank or with bad intent?

    As tiny as the transgender population is, there are far more pranksters and pervs than transgenders. So you're creating a whole new set of problems bigger than the original, just because you're too selfish to see beyond yourself.

    Dr. Carson tossed out the "why not transgender bathrooms" comment. And why not? As long as its not a legislated mandate. Its nice if some business or private entity thinks its good for business to spend money for "boys", "girls", and "other". For smaller businesses with limited space and/or funds, that can be an unreasonable burden. For public spaces, its not reasonable to put the additional cost on taxpayers. Handicapped accommodation? Sure, no problem. For other-wise able bodied whose only issue is confusion about their plumbing, sorry, no go.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Quote Originally Posted by MechanophilicFox View Post
    This entire argument is transphobic and insulting. People who are offended by someone who is transgender are the ones with the problem, not the trans person. When it comes to "considering others" they can go screw themselves, to be perfectly honest. Human beings are the most loathsome creatures of the earth; they're sheep driven by media standards. That you and other people are not accepting of certain things shouldn't matter to personal happiness, especially when that happiness does nothing to harm them. So a child sees (what she has been raised, fed, indoctrined to perceive as) a male dressed in women's clothing, you think that's offensive? How about teaching her instead that it's okay? How about we end this ridiculous cultural obsession with gender stereotypes and binary? Wearing diapers has NOTHING to do with being transgender... gender dysphoria is a psychological condition, one that has even more grounding in science as being a psychological issue than homosexuality... and we, as other human beings, need to make more effort to incorporate that into our society, rather than shun them as being deviants.

    And I think it sad that you refuse to allow you to be who you are (a baby) because you're thinking of others. Don't you realise it's that attitude that leads to mental illness like anxiety and depression? Hiding who you truly are inside? Screw society man, screw the system!
    Sorry, didn't realise you were the ultimate authority on cultural norms and standards. You should probably put that in your sig so the rest of us are aware. .
    Last edited by Maxx; 11-Nov-2015 at 16:42.

  9. #9

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    It takes someone who knows nothing about trans issues to think it's as simple as saying "I'm a girl". It would be a nice world if it worked.

  10. #10

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    I posted a thread several months ago about one of our local schools taking some separate washrooms and re-designating them as gender neutral washrooms or 'universal washrooms. This was done after extensive consultation with parents and transgender youth. The reason this was being done was because of the number of students in transition who identified public washrooms as places where they most commonly encounter bullying and harassment. The intent is to accommodate the special needs of these students and ensure that everyone feels safe. Certainly, we need to address the culture that allows such intimidation to continue against a marginalized group, however, at least this is an acknowledgement of the hardships that the trans population faces on a daily basis and takes reasonable precautions to protect their safety. Carson may be a wingnut but that shouldn't deter from bringing attention to a serious issue.

    http://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/transitioni...tion-1.2513957

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