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Thread: Banning Confederate Flag?

  1. #1

    Default Banning Confederate Flag?

    So i am Curious where everyone stands on the Issue of Banning a Part of Amarican History because Some one is Butt hurt. the most i have heard out of this argument is that the flag is being banned because a few people got offended and possibly one or two got killed. has this country really fallen so far into politicly correctness that i now have to abandon my rights as a citizen because someone is mad at a warped incorrect version of history?

    Now Civil war history as it was taught to me in 2001- 2009 in arizona and kentucky account the Civil war was the result of a milder form of taxation without representation. Not to be confused with the Revolutionary war between GB and the Colonies where the colonies had NO representation in british monarchy, but the fact that representation in congress was based on the national Census of population by state. the southern states by population were far larger than the northern states due to the slave population on the plantations but were only given representation based on the white population because the Union government did not reconise slaves as humans but were simply property in the sense as livestock. when the south brought up a vote to include the slaves as part of the human population of their state the northern gov. said no that slaves were not people but property due to this the south broke off from the USA creating their own government based off the Same bill of rights and Constitution but refused to remain part of the union. now the South retreated back south of the mason dixon where they built up their own military and government system. the union felt threatened by this act and was the first to declare war. so when the fighting broke out the confederate Government made a declaration that any slave who shall raise arms in defense of the confederacy shall no longer be a slave but a paid worker and soldier. the black former slaves fought side by side with confederate soldiers in battle UNLIKE the union who still did not allow blacks in the millitary. upon hearing of this declaration lincoln made his own declaration to cover his ass freeing ALL slaves north and south to make it seem like the union were the good guys and the rest is history. However i heard a quote before that History is written by the victor since the union won the war the union re wrote and masked the entire cause of the war behind bigotry and slavery where as the true origins of the war were based on political reasons and human rights.

    now to the matter at hand the reasoning i heard about the "rebel flag" being banned and removed from everywhere was due to racisim and killings but my argument is that Old glory the USA flag is stained with far more blood, inocent deaths, racisim and in-equallity as the confederate flag. the USA born the ideals of slavery of african's the confederates were formed after the fact and mearly adopted the culture of the Union that existed far before it had so why is it that the confederate flag gets the repercussions of the sins of Old glory while it stands tall as a symbol of freedom of opression where as the confederate flag was born of the shadow of old glory in attempts of breaking free of opression and strife during a time in which America stood for slavery and opression?

  2. #2

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    The civil war was fought over slavery. This far-right attempt to rewrite history is absolutely disgusting. I really have no more to say on that matter. You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.

    The so-called "confederate" flag is a symbol of treason above all else. But it also represents oppression, slavery, and extreme hatred/racism via it's popular use by the Klan. It is absolutely disgusting that it flies at any government building in 2015.

    And what rights, exactly, are you having to abandon because we're trying to forbid flying a particular flag at government buildings? Explain that one to us. Please. I'd really like to hear what you think you're losing out on.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Draugr View Post
    The civil war was fought over slavery. This far-right attempt to rewrite history is absolutely disgusting. I really have no more to say on that matter. You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.

    The so-called "confederate" flag is a symbol of treason above all else. But it also represents oppression, slavery, and extreme hatred/racism via it's popular use by the Klan. It is absolutely disgusting that it flies at any government building in 2015.

    And what rights, exactly, are you having to abandon because we're trying to forbid flying a particular flag at government buildings? Explain that one to us. Please. I'd really like to hear what you think you're losing out on.

    See you just Proved My point instead of Debating the points i laid out about how the US had invented these ideas lOng Before the confederates Existed and Jumped streight into the arguments of Popular culture with no valid fact or counter argument except "The flag is bad M'kay."

    so also by your same Argument ISIS and Alquida use the Muslim religion as a symbol to rally and destroy the american people and way of life... you going to ban islam too? the flag has no meaning besides a part of a culture and regional history. just because people who do bad things cling to something as a symbol means the thing itself is tainted? so you are going to disregard that the US flag was the flag flying over every slaver camp in Africa and over alot of slave transport ships. the US flag also flew over iraq when we mass bombed them and flew over every japaneese concentration kill camp during WW2 by your own definition it also stands for oppression, sensless murder and genocide. why is it still flying over government buildings. the point is no inanimate object holds any meaning beyond the eye of the beholder to your closed mind the confederate flag is the only flag holding blood and racisim, to my perspective all i see is a flag that represents a very important part of southern history, culture, and a symbol that stands to remind congress that thishappened once because you were all stupid we can and will do it again if you continue down your path of coruption. and as to the remark of treason why not also bann the texas state flag? it also was symbolizing a state that removed itelf from the USA because it disagreed with the politics of the feds. the US flag Holds Far More Inocent Blood and racial bigotry than a flag of a dead nation stomped out violently by the same flag you defend

    furthermore why should i be asked to remove a flag from my house on my private property by threat of fine and imprisonment because some asshole decided he dosent like it

  4. #4

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    I can see why people would want the confederate flag removed from government flagpoles. Amazon, Ebay, and others forbidding their merchants to sell it though, that conerns me.

  5. #5

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    alot of people in the Southern states can claim ancestory to the men who fought for that flag it remains a large part of their family history but because someone up north got mad they have to abandon their family heritage to appease someone who is so closeminded they cant even percieve a reality beyond thier own state of mind. yeah that flag was used in horrible things but back to your argument of the Klan. just flying a confederate flag didnt grant you immunity ive shot a few klans men on my front lawn who came after me with a rope and shotguns. they are bad people no doubt but i can trace my family back to the confederacy the actuall flag i have is a 100% authentic Confederate Battle Flag that one of my ancestors carried into battle. its heritage to me but i was confronted by county sherriffs demanding i take it down or i can be arrested for obstructing justice. that is what i meant by my rights being denied

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by w0lfpack91 View Post
    See you just Proved My point instead of Debating the points i laid out about how the US had invented these ideas lOng Before the confederates Existed and Jumped streight into the arguments of Popular culture with no valid fact or counter argument except "The flag is bad M'kay."
    Bothering to debate such a stupid idea gives legitimacy to it. It's no more worthwhile than getting in a "debate" with someone about whether or not the sky is red.

    It isn't, and wasting any time arguing about it is pointless. It's the same reason I don't engage moon landing conspiracy theorists. The entire concept is stupid, and even bothering to debate it in the first place gives the false impression that it's an equally legitimate point of view.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Draugr View Post
    Bothering to debate such a stupid idea gives legitimacy to it. It's no more worthwhile than getting in a "debate" with someone about whether or not the sky is red.

    It isn't, and wasting any time arguing about it is pointless. It's the same reason I don't engage moon landing conspiracy theorists. The entire concept is stupid, and even bothering to debate it in the first place gives the false impression that it's an equally legitimate point of view.
    but that is the point i am getting at it is infact an equally legitimate point of veiw it stems to bring forward the point that you can not bring forth a valid point because it is so hard wired into your thinking that it is not important leads to the point that you are displaying traits of bigotry twords a veiw in favor of another view that is equally circumstancial based on region of birth and perspective. Draugr that is the point i am getting at people continue to rally against racisim and discriminoation without realising that by giving in to one side you are discriminating the other. to give one must first take away. feminisim works in theroy but human nature interfeares, same with communisim and anarchy, equal rights and racisim. its in the nature of a human being to hate or dislike that which is diffrent, life is a Balancing act its not black and white like the left and right want you to believe. the thought train of modern equal rights has created a power shift in the system where we are so afraid of racisim that we tip the scale in favor of any who scream race, and happen to have a complexion that favors the outcome. for each action there is an Equal and OPPOSITE reaction to give to one means to take from another the only way to solve is to stop interfearing all together and let nature balance it out as it was intended in the first place, dont believe me look at an eco system devoid of human life, with no government to control and indoctrionate the many life forms live together in a natural ballance that preserves the ecosystem. humans were like that once look at the native americans, they lived peacefully together by following the laws of nature not the laws of man, they bickered among one another time to time but by following the rules of nature conflict eventually evened out and balance was re intagratied. you cant exert this much control over individuals without repercussions its the base theroy of cause and effect. its how revolutions are started.

  8. #8

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    Depends on what you mean by banning. I think it's absurd if anyone is seriously attempting a ban on people owning, displaying, and so on confederate flags. That would be almost certainly be tossed out by the courts as a violation of the First Amendment. I haven't heard anyone attempt such a ban, though. Snopes indicates that rumors about Obama banning it are false.

    Now, if we're talking about businesses refusing to sell it or private organizations and states removing it, that's another matter. Your rights aren't infringed in those cases.



    Quote Originally Posted by w0lfpack91 View Post
    Now Civil war history as it was taught to me in 2001- 2009 in arizona and kentucky account the Civil war was the result of a milder form of taxation without representation. Not to be confused with the Revolutionary war between GB and the Colonies where the colonies had NO representation in british monarchy, but the fact that representation in congress was based on the national Census of population by state. the southern states by population were far larger than the northern states due to the slave population on the plantations but were only given representation based on the white population because the Union government did not reconise slaves as humans but were simply property in the sense as livestock. when the south brought up a vote to include the slaves as part of the human population of their state the northern gov. said no that slaves were not people but property due to this the south broke off from the USA creating their own government based off the Same bill of rights and Constitution but refused to remain part of the union.
    This isn't correct ...

    The question of representation was settled at the time when the Constitution was written. The compromise, known as the Three-Fifths Compromise, counted each slave as 3/5th of a person.

    In actuality, the North's population outnumbered the South's by far, even when slaves were included. Here's the stats, by the way: 18.5 million in the North vs. 9 million in the South (including slaves). Having full representation wouldn't have mattered much for the South, and I don't think there was any serious push for changing it. The balance of slave and free states, however, was very important, since the Senate has equal representation for each state.

    The cause of the Civil War boils down to slavery. There are other factors, certainly, but most are directly or indirectly related to slavery. I really would suggest finding and reading a reliable book on the Civil War. For starters, this is a fairly decent summary of the Civil War's causes.



    Quote Originally Posted by w0lfpack91 View Post
    now the South retreated back south of the mason dixon where they built up their own military and government system. the union felt threatened by this act and was the first to declare war.
    When states seceded from the US, Lincoln insisted that all forts in the South still belonged to the Union. The Confederates fired the first shots at Fort Sumter. This is regarded as the start of the Civil War. I'm not aware of any strong argument for any other event.

    As an aside, of course, the Union would find it threatening. The Mason-Dixon line follows the border between Pennsylvania and Maryland. Washington DC is south of that line, between Virginia and Maryland. Both of these states were slave states, although only Virginia seceded.



    Quote Originally Posted by w0lfpack91 View Post
    so when the fighting broke out the confederate Government made a declaration that any slave who shall raise arms in defense of the confederacy shall no longer be a slave but a paid worker and soldier. the black former slaves fought side by side with confederate soldiers in battle UNLIKE the union who still did not allow blacks in the millitary. upon hearing of this declaration lincoln made his own declaration to cover his ass freeing ALL slaves north and south to make it seem like the union were the good guys and the rest is history.
    False, for again, multiple reasons. The Emancipation Proclamation was issued on January 1st, 1863. (The preliminary version was issued September 1862, after a Union victory at the Battle of Antietam.) The Union also began enlisting blacks soon after the Emancipation Proclamation.

    Contrary to popular belief, it did not free all the slaves, but only those in areas that were rebelling against the US. Nor was a measure of desperation - Lincoln waited until a Union victory, so it didn't appear that way.

    Meanwhile, the Confederacy didn't approve using black troops until 1865, as a last ditch measure.



    Quote Originally Posted by w0lfpack91 View Post
    However i heard a quote before that History is written by the victor since the union won the war the union re wrote and masked the entire cause of the war behind bigotry and slavery where as the true origins of the war were based on political reasons and human rights.
    Oh, for crying out loud ... If you're going to make controversial claims, please at least back them up. Reputable sources, preferably. At the least, make sure the basic facts like dates and events are right.



    Quote Originally Posted by w0lfpack91 View Post
    now to the matter at hand the reasoning i heard about the "rebel flag" being banned and removed from everywhere was due to racisim and killings but my argument is that Old glory the USA flag is stained with far more blood, inocent deaths, racisim and in-equallity as the confederate flag. the USA born the ideals of slavery of african's the confederates were formed after the fact and mearly adopted the culture of the Union that existed far before it had so why is it that the confederate flag gets the repercussions of the sins of Old glory while it stands tall as a symbol of freedom of opression where as the confederate flag was born of the shadow of old glory in attempts of breaking free of opression and strife during a time in which America stood for slavery and opression?
    It's somewhat pointless to debate this topic, when your understanding of history is wildly off the mark. It's like having a discussion on a problem in Physics, where someone refuses to accept the standard definitions of speed and acceleration.
    Last edited by HogansHeroes; 28-Jun-2015 at 08:01.

  9. #9

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    I don't like it. It's not a symbol of oppression and slavery. If you come to the South racism does not have much room here, and any prominent racism is spoken in whispers, in which case, oppression is not the appropriate word to use.

    The Confederate flag actually stands for the balls to defend oneself against tyrants. The very act of trying to take it out of our country is evidence that complacency of the people is the intention, masked by the single, one time event in which some ignorant cunt takes out a group of black church goers. Just another fucking tally on the list of things that Americans should hate. When shit hits the fan and there's nothing we can do about it, we'll know who to blame.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by HogansHeroes View Post
    Depends on what you mean by banning. I think it's absurd if anyone is seriously attempting a ban on people owning, displaying, and so on confederate flags. That would be almost certainly be tossed out by the courts as a violation of the First Amendment. I haven't heard anyone attempt such a ban, though. Snopes indicates that rumors about Obama banning it are false.

    Now, if we're talking about businesses refusing to sell it or private organizations and states removing it, that's another matter. Your rights aren't infringed in those cases.
    no but the infringment of rights i spoke of was the fact that i was aproached by two county sheriff deputys at my private residence telling me i had to remove the confederate battle flag that flies on a pole along with the US flag the marine corps flag and the Army Flag over a small marble memorial in my front yard of all the members of my family who fought in a War to defend what they believed in. one of which was a Confederate soldier in the civil war. the confederate flag that flew on the pole was the very same flag he carried into battle durring the civil war the flag was givin to our family with his body and has sit in my great great grandmothers attic in her old two bedroom farm house in southern alabama. when my grandparents finally passed we decided to donate the house to a young homless family as we were cleaning out the attic i found the flag, his rifle, and his uniform. when we finally setteled down i had a memorial made with 4 flag poles and flew the US the old confederate, the USMC and US Army flags in respect to my family who served under each flag. and here i was being threatened with a fine and arrest if i dint remove the flag from the yard because it offended the officers who happened to drive by and see it.

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