First time you questioned your gender?

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CrinklesTheBunny said:
The penis is developed because of hormones chromosomes during pregnancy. So you just sit in between a male and female. Do you also have testicles?
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gigglemuffinz said:
This is the thing..

What's in my pants is my business. The body that I have is.. upsetting to me because of the society we live in. It doesn't define who I am, or who anyone IS. What genitals I have are the business of me, my doctor for heath concerns obviously, and my sexual partner. That's as far as that goes.

You are sitting here making efforts to define my gender by my gentials, a very harmful practice that doesn't help anyone. What my body is biologically matters, but in the end it really only should matter to ME. I should be allowed to be uncomfortable with it, comfortable with it, and alter it however I see fit. But I shouldn't be defined by it.

Of course, none of this will matter when I say that I have testicles. It'll be the part you respond to.
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That is so true, Gigglemuffinz, your private parts are your bisness, To me god just sees people no matter who they are, and its her decision to transition into a girl, personally a decision I would never make but still, its her decision and she has to make it, oh and CrinklesTheBunny, if you don't fell like a girl sometimes, why are you here?
 
You get awfully defensive when I asked about the testicles thing, but you willingly told people that you have a penis. I mean if you say you have a penis to people and someone may say something you don't agree with, understand that is a normal human response. Acceptance has to be learned.
 
KittyninjaW said:
That is so true, Gigglemuffinz, your private parts are your bisness, To me god just sees people no matter who they are, and its her decision to transition into a girl, personally a decision I would never make but still, its her decision and she has to make it, oh and CrinklesTheBunny, if you don't fell like a girl sometimes, why are you here?
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Because I like to converse about different topics. You got an issue with that KittyninjaW? Anyway, I never sa u d she didn't have the right to be a female and live her life as a female. [emoji252]
 
CrinklesTheBunny said:
You get awfully defensive when I asked about the testicles thing, but you willingly told people that you have a penis. I mean if you say you have a penis to people and someone may say something you don't agree with, understand that is a normal human response. Acceptance has to be learned.
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I understand. I apologize for my defensiveness.. I was just curious as to why it mattered. I explained I had a penis in order to fight something I felt was important to fight.

And what you were expressing, what you are still expressing is harmful to that. You are still expressing the way people use words to say.. "If you are born with a penis and testicles... this is who you are. This is the mannerisms that will be expected of you. This is the kind of box you have been placed just immediately, based on nothing but a slightly different body part." and all of this is wrong. All of this should be fought.. and it can be by simply being strong that my body is not male. It's female. I'm female.

Everything you expressed was "sex=gender".. and none of this is useful. Sex should not define someone's gender at all. Sex should be removed from the discussion.
 
Actually you're wrong. Just because I said that you were part male, doesn't mean that I was saying that you had to live your life as a male. I have a cousin who is a hermaphrodite. He has more female hormones than male hormones but was born with a fully functioning penis and testicles.
 
CrinklesTheBunny said:
Because I like to converse about different topics. You got an issue with that KittyninjaW? Anyway, I never said she didn't have the right to be a female and live her life as a female. [emoji252]
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I'm sorry, I was just wondering and no I don't have an issue with that, this is a free country and that means we can discuss things like this. Oh and sorry I misunderstood, I tend to do that sometimes.
 
I just think people have the right to live their life any way they see fit and feel conformable with.
 
CrinklesTheBunny said:
I just think people have the right to live their life any way they see fit and feel conformable with.
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I agree as well. Everything I've said is in service to that goal as well. :)
 
Just FYI. The definitions and terms are based on recent psychological, biological research as well as in professional LGBT resources.

CrinklesTheBunny said:
Actually you're wrong. Just because I said that you were part male, doesn't mean that I was saying that you had to live your life as a male. I have a cousin who is a hermaphrodite. He has more female hormones than male hormones but was born with a fully functioning penis and testicles.
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Intersex is the preferred term for people who have developed a mix of secondary sex characteristics. The state of being intersex has little to do with one's innate gender identity: male, female, or non-binary. Designation of said characteristics is actually quite arbitrary.

If you're a woman with a penis, that makes you part male
There's just some things you have to learn to accept that are fact. Just like me. I'm Black and I'm visually impaired. Two facts of life that I can't change. Just like you can't help that you're part male. That's biologically fact. The male sex organ is the penis. So by having a penis it makes you part male physically. Now mentally and emotionally you are female. You seem to have an agenda of thinking people are trying to assign you. If I met you in person and you actually told me you had a penis, I would not try to assign you a gender. You have to understand where some people are coming from, before you start making assumptions to what they are trying to say or do. If you are so self conscious about having male parts, why did you even state that you had a penis?
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I think it's extremely rude to interrogate someone, regardless if they stated it or not, about the specifics and reducing them to genitalia, and even going so far as to assert they "are part male" as "an indisputable fact." People own their own bodies. To sort of police and assert such things (and for them being totally "wrong" about it, or they have some sort of agenda as to why), which are already blatantly apparent to trans people, can be construed as a cissexist attitude. I would be pretty defensive too, honestly.

http://assignedmale.tumblr.com/post/106871528812/assigned-male-webcomic-about-a-trans-girl-im

Again just FYI. This is a very complicated subject and gender is extremely messy. I'm a seasoned cell and molecular biologist. If you would like to know the rather arbitrary nature we assign such things as "male" and "female" in the scientific world, I'd be more than happy to go in it. Some food for thought: There's an incredible amount of genetic variation in the human population. Though some of it is often due to molecular machinery malfunctioning, doesn't necessarily make their existence a mistake. There a number of XY individuals who are women, and what we would define as "woman bodied." There are also XXY men. Some don't even show symptoms of Klinefelter's. Are they still men? Or part "woman?" Such designations are arbitrary.

Do you know your karyotype? Would it matter to how you call yourself a man? Would your penis, be part woman if you were XXY? If a woman tells me she has a girls penis. Then that's it. If a man tells me he has a guy's vagina, then awesome. I'm not going to assert to them it's anything but and use my degree as a weapon to tell them their dead wrong and full of shit.
 
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I hate when people get wrapped up in technical terns and words. Geno, I have already been corrected and don't need you to further correct me. Thank you.
 
Whether or not someone is male or female or something in between is up to the individual to decide and for others to simply respect.

It's hard enough figuring yourself out but when someone else tries to tell you who you are is degrading, humiliating and down right insulting.
 
Geno said:
Just FYI. The definitions and terms are based on recent psychological, biological research as well as in professional LGBT resources.



Intersex is the preferred term for people who have developed a mix of secondary sex characteristics. The state of being intersex has little to do with one's innate gender identity: male, female, or non-binary. Designation of said characteristics is actually quite arbitrary.



I think it's extremely rude to interrogate someone, regardless if they stated it or not, about the specifics and reducing them to genitalia, and even going so far as to assert they "are part male" as "an indisputable fact." People own their own bodies. To sort of police and assert such things (and for them being totally "wrong" about it, or they have some sort of agenda as to why), which are already blatantly apparent to trans people, can be construed as a cissexist attitude. I would be pretty defensive too, honestly.

http://assignedmale.tumblr.com/post/106871528812/assigned-male-webcomic-about-a-trans-girl-im

Again just FYI. This is a very complicated subject and gender is extremely messy. I'm a seasoned cell and molecular biologist. If you would like to know the rather arbitrary nature we assign such things as "male" and "female" in the scientific world, I'd be more than happy to go in it. Some food for thought: There's an incredible amount of genetic variation in the human population. Though some of it is often due to molecular machinery malfunctioning, doesn't necessarily make their existence a mistake. There a number of XY individuals who are women, and what we would define as "woman bodied." There are also XXY men. Some don't even show symptoms of Klinefelter's. Are they still men? Or part "woman?" Such designations are arbitrary.

Do you know your karyotype? Would it matter to how you call yourself a man? Would your penis, be part woman if you were XXY? If a woman tells me she has a girls penis. Then that's it. If a man tells me he has a guy's vagina, then awesome. I'm not going to assert to them it's anything but and use my degree as a weapon to tell them their dead wrong and full of shit.
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What you said at the end of this post made no sense to me.
 
He's saying that physical se characteristics make no difference. If someone says they are a woman or a man then that's the end of it. It's not right that anyone should tell them they are wrong.
 
I'm not arguing thus point anymore. I already clearly stated that someone has the right to be who they want. End of discussion.
 
Trans people don't want to be, we are. I'm sure that many if not most of us would rather not be trans. If I were to have to choose, I wouldn't be trans. I wouldn't be asexual. I wouldn't be a little. I would be a normal, cisgendered, heterosexual person and my life would be so much simpler. I would not choose to be transgender. If we don't have a right to be who we are, we have nothing at all.
 
Here's what I believe. I think putting people into categories is harmful. There's just on this site alone, there people saying they are, transgender, gay, bi, sissies, adult babies, diaper lovers, asexual, cisgendered, metrosexual, heterosexual, and many more things. I found concentrating on a person's lifestyle choices, sexual orientations, and sexuality is harmful. Why do we as humans find it so necessary to clump others in subgroups? Is it really that big of a deal that a man is male but feels female? Is really a good idea to say who a person is due to what genitalia they have between their legs? Is it really helpful to continue expect acceptance due to these things? Everyone deserves respect and love no matter what sexual orientation you are, no matter what gender you are, and no matter your kinks in life may have. Love is love. But I see putting people into groups and pushing those groups into an intolerant world harmful. It's harmful to the group, it's harmful to whatever subculture may be represented in that group, and it's harmful to bigots and people that refuse to accept others. It just fuels hate. I love people for who they are and their character. Not because they may be gay, transgender, or even a different color than me. This is going to sound cliché, but people need to see beyond that stuff and just love each other. People have become so politically correct nowadays, that even calling someone something that is not to their liking such as the term "shemale", people get thrown into a tizzy. In the past few years there has been so many terms for people and groups of people that have been invented and coined, it's hard to keep track.

All I can say is this, no matter who you are, you deserve love, respect, kindness, and happiness. Let's start treating each other like HUMAN BEINGS and not the group we represent as an individual.
 
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CrinklesTheBunny said:
Here's what I believe. I think putting people into categories is harmful. There's just on this site alone, there people saying they are, transgender, gay, bi, sissies, adult babies, diaper lovers, asexual, cisgendered, metrosexual, heterosexual, and many more things. I found concentrating on a person's lifestyle choices, sexual orientations, and sexuality is harmful. Why do we as humans find it so necessary to clump others in subgroups? Is it really that big of a deal that a man is male but feels female? Is really a good idea to say who a person is due to what genitalia they have between their legs? Is it really helpful to continue expect acceptance due to these things? Everyone deserves respect and love no matter what sexual orientation you are, no matter what gender you are, and no matter your kinks in life are. Love is love. But I see putting people into groups and pushing those groups into an intolerant world harmful. It's harmful to the group, it's harmful to whatever subculture may be represented in that group, and it's harmful to bigots and people that refuse to accept others. It just fuels hate. I love people for who they are and their character. Not because they may be gay, transgender, or even a different color than me. This is going to sound cliché, but people need to see beyond that stuff and just love each other. People have become so politically correct nowadays, that even calling someone something that is not to their liking such as the term "shemale", people get thrown into a tizzy. In the past few years there has been so many terms for people and groups of people that have been invented and coined, it's hard to keep track.

All I can say is this, no matter who you are, you deserve love, respect, kindness, and happiness. Let's start treating each other like HUMAN BEINGS and not the group we represent as an individual.
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That is true, and I personally agree, that's why I think the bible has certain passages in there, like love the sinner hate the sin, and stuff like that, because we are all people and to be honest No one is perfect, and I agree is so hard to keep track over the different terms these days, The golden rule states do as to others as we would want done to us, and that's why I'm a Christian, because everyone needs respect, everyone has a choice, we have free will and we are all humans, no one is perfect, and we should act that way.
 
CrinklesTheBunny said:
People have become so politically correct nowadays, that even calling someone something that is not to their liking such as the term "shemale", people get thrown into a tizzy. In the past few years there has been so many terms for people and groups of people that have been invented and coined, it's hard to keep track.
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Look man, take a step back for a second. You're doing a whole lotta talking in saying what you believe, but in this case perhaps you should probably be asking the questions which would help you get it, instead of bemoaning "it's far to complicated" and "all this PC stuff."

Gender is a complicated messy business. People aren't going to dispute this fact.

But since you're going on and on and on about "let's all look at each other as human" and "show respect," well, I'm kind of befuddled you would say that this conversation is the result of some sort of political correctness and people being oversensitive. You could see where I could be confused.

Personal example so it seems I'm not just calling you out here. So I volunteer at my LGBT organization a lot. There are people who do not fit into the gender binary. Be it they are genderfluid, androgyne, what have you. Many of them go by "They/Them" pronouns. Yes, non-binary individuals go by the traditional plural pronoun. There is also a litany of other pronouns. I've messed up a couple times in pronouns and at some points I'm like "why can't there just be this one new that doesn't sound weird, it's ridiculous."

Well ok. But since we are BOTH of the mind to send love to our fellow human beings, and want to be respectful, and actually understanding, let us acknowledge their identity, their preferred pronouns, what have you. Instead of, saying, it's too complicated and people are oversensitive.

See what I'm getting at here? I certainly get where you are coming from.

What you said at the end of this post made no sense to me.
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You can easily look up karyotyping if that's your confusion. Let me phrase the rest this way.

If I was born with a penis, and identified as a girl, then this is a girl's penis, this is my penis. Not a male penis. Doesn't make me part male. My female body has variation, in contrast to the rest. It is no more illegitimate than other female bodies, and doesn't make me part male simply because the majority of males do. Do you get what I'm saying?
 
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Geno said:
Look man, take a step back for a second. You're doing a whole lotta talking in saying what you believe, but in this case perhaps you should probably be asking the questions which would help you get it, instead of bemoaning "it's far to complicated" and "all this PC stuff."

Gender is a complicated messy business. People aren't going to dispute this fact.

But since you're going on and on and on about "let's all look at each other as human" and "show respect," well, I'm kind of befuddled you would say that this conversation is the result of some sort of political correctness and people being oversensitive. You could see where I could be confused.

Personal example so it seems I'm not just calling you out here. So I volunteer at my LGBT organization a lot. There are people who do not fit into the gender binary. Be it they are genderfluid, androgyne, what have you. Many of them go by "They/Them" pronouns. Yes, non-binary individuals go by the traditional plural pronoun. There is also a litany of other pronouns. I've messed up a couple times in pronouns and at some points I'm like "why can't there just be this one new that doesn't sound weird, it's ridiculous."

Well ok. But since we are BOTH of the mind to send love to our fellow human beings, and want to be respectful, and actually understanding, let us acknowledge their identity, their preferred pronouns, what have you. Instead of, saying, it's too complicated and people are oversensitive.

See what I'm getting at here? I certainly get where you are coming from.



You can easily look up karyotyping if that's your confusion. Let me phrase the rest this way.

If I was born with a penis, and identified as a girl, then this is a girl's penis, this is my penis. Not a male penis. Doesn't make me part male. My female body has variation, in contrast to the rest. It is no more illegitimate than other female bodies, and doesn't make me part male simply because the majority of males do. Do you get what I'm saying?
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See this is precisely what I mean. Geno, you're completely over thinking what I'm saying. I'm saying get rid of the labels. People are people. I'm not bemoaning anything. I'm trying to be positive and all you're doing is trying to refute my positivity. I don't refer to myself as heterosexual to people. All these terms and phrases they have for people don't matter to me. What matters to me is the person themselves.
 
Getting rid of the labels would be ideal. If Gender in specific didn't dictate most of our lives.

Right now Transfolk are currently fighting for the right to use the bathroom of their choosing and fines are being proposed if we don't follow along with what lawmakers want so unfortunately gender is still playing a HUGE part in this community. Until we all have equal rights and that goes for everyone regardless of their chosen labels, they are extremely important right now.

And whats more than that they can be helpful to someone who is trying to figure out who they are. Labels aren't always a bad thing. When I found out what Gay was it was like a weight had been lifted off of my shoulders, I finally knew what I was and it deffinitly wasn't "Broken" as I had thought for so many years. The same goes for Trans and Asexual those labels allowed me to free myself from the hatred I had felt for years and they have done the same for others.

You are right we are all human, but some humans like having a way to define themselves because it makes them feel better to do so and until the law catches up that we kind of have to stand behind them.
 
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