View Poll Results: Do Young Girls/Boys Need A Normal Looking Doll?

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  • Yes

    7 35.00%
  • No

    13 65.00%
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Thread: Lammily Doll, a naturally proportioned doll

  1. #1

    Question Lammily Doll, a naturally proportioned doll

    Has anyone else heard of this new naturally proportioned doll, it's supposed to have the scaled down proportions of the average 19 year old woman. This brings up something I have never seen discussed on here before, do young girls need dolls that look more normal, or are thin waisted dolls just fine? I personally believe that little girls should have a doll available that looks normal, that way they could feel more natural playing with it, but I still think the hyper thin dolls should be on shelves for the sake of choice. I think that it's actually refreshing to see a doll that dosen't look like a fashion model, prostitute (remember Bratz?), or story book perfect woman, what's your opinion guys?

    Oh, and here's the website for those curious: https://lammily.com .

  2. #2

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    Alright, I'm not going to lie. I actually voted no. I don't think we NEED this. It's nice, I'm all for it... kinda. We don't need it though.

    This kinda stuff actually bugs me a little. Not you, just the general topic. Although I feel the need to point out that Bratz weren't prostitutes. Really.. kinda wish people would stop slut shaming DOLLS.. that never had sex and only just wore clothing that some pearl clutching people though were too scandalous. They were just model's and such too. I was around Bratz a lot. They were kinda cute at times. very glad they have moved away in favor of Monster High, Ever After High, and Lalaloopsy and such. Especially wish Novi Star's had been more of a hit. Those were adorable.

    It's this wierd double-standard. Where is the cry for little boy super heroes and other action figures to be "realistically proportioned"? Why can people understand the validity of imaginative fantasy play that doesn't have to be realistic only when it applies to boys? I would totally be absolutely fine with realistically proportioned dolls.. but how come every doll that attempts to be realistic proportioned has to also take away all the fantasy play? Lammily's clothes and hair are pretty and all. The fact that is.. she has boring mom clothes. I wouldn't buy this doll and I buy LOTS of dolls. She's boring... and not because her proportions.

    Part of what is fun about dolls is having magical fairy princess play, or I'm a cute model on a runway play, or I'm a adorable monster-girl/alien-girl play. How come I can't have realistic AND have fun imaginative play? I just don't like how it seems like we only want to squash the fantasies of little girls, and yet the fantasies of little boys are becoming mainstream and okay even in adults. It's okay to want to be the Hulk or Iron Man or Batman.. all just as unrealistic and some with also unrealistic proportions, but Barbie is everyone's punching bag.

    Siiigh.
    Last edited by gigglemuffinz; 01-Mar-2015 at 02:06.

  3. #3

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    I'd heard of that, and I think it's a great idea.

    For some reason, young girls are bombarded with expectations of wanting to spend their time cooking, shopping, gossiping, and being slim and pretty. And young boys are given mechanical, physical toys and encouraged to express dominance and inhibit "sensitive" emotions.

    With common mental health conditions (like depression and anxiety) increasing in our societies, I think its imperative that we do as much as we can to ensure that children are given realistic ideals and role-models, to give them the best chance of becoming well-adjusted adults.

    I long for the day when pink is dead! (Sorry pink-lovers!)

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by tiny View Post
    I'd heard of that, and I think it's a great idea.

    For some reason, young girls are bombarded with expectations of wanting to spend their time cooking, shopping, gossiping, and being slim and pretty. And young boys are given mechanical, physical toys and encouraged to express dominance and inhibit "sensitive" emotions.

    With common mental health conditions (like depression and anxiety) increasing in our societies, I think its imperative that we do as much as we can to ensure that children are given realistic ideals and role-models, to give them the best chance of becoming well-adjusted adults.

    I long for the day when pink is dead! (Sorry pink-lovers!)
    See, this is exactly what I'm talking about.

    Don't take this personally, but like.. who are you to shame the dreams of cooking, shopping, and being pretty? To treat these things as lesser or somehow petty? Who are you to wish these things are dead? What we just need is a society that allows both things to be enjoyed by WHOEVER wants to enjoy them, instead of destroying the things and shaming femininity and praising masculinity. How are these not valid dreams? What's wrong with loving pink and princess? Dreaming of feminine things isn't the problem, it's the expectation that all girls SHOULD be feminine that's the problem.

    I hate people avoiding attacking our gender expectations by simply switching the narrative and trying to destroy femininity.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by gigglemuffinz View Post
    Part of what is fun about dolls is having magical fairy princess play, or I'm a cute model on a runway play, or I'm a adorable monster-girl/alien-girl play. How come I can't have realistic AND have fun imaginative play? I just don't like how it seems like we only want to squash the fantasies of little girls...
    Hmm... Yeah... I get that... But, I just wonder where the "fantasies of little girls" come from...? Are they natural instincts, or has society "told" them this is what they "must" aspire to...? If it's the latter, I just wonder if we couldn't try to inspire "healthier" and more realistic ideals in children.

    "Ideals" come into and out of fashion. At one point, the English upper-classes would whiten their faces; now, they're more likely to tan them. And there's nothing that says that a princess HAS to be unrealistically tall and skinny. They can still be magical and otherwise unrealistic.

    The problem with the skinny dolls is that, if these are taken to be unconscious role-models, children may recognise how far short they fall physically from their ideals and take drastic measures (unhealthy dieting, weight-related anxiety, anorexia nervosa, etc.).

    With other "unrealistic" elements (such as magic, super-powers, etc.), there's no real danger that these abilities can turn into maladaptive behaviour because (unlike with weight/appearance), there's nothing you can do to make yourself more "magical".

    The problem with the unrealistically-proportioned dolls isn't that they are unreal. Fairies (dolls with wings) won't harm children, no matter how much a kid want to grow wings! Skinny dolls can attribute to psychological harm, if their skinnyness goes beyond fantasy and becomes a personal goal.

  6. #6

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    I don't want Bratz or Barbie or Lammily. I just like baby dolls.

  7. #7

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    i largely agree with Giggles: there's nowt wrong with being girly/womanly/motherly, in fact such qualities and work are admirable.
    on the other hand, i also agree with Tiny with respect to social conditioning; and possibly especially when it comes to boys' 'action figures'.

    growing up during The Cold War, lots of toys were geared towards encouraging militarism, exploiting boys' natural tendancies for rough and tumble and adventure.

    with regard to 'action figures' and dolls, though, i never really saw the point of them. like, what are you suposed to do with them once you have them? especially so, with them being all well catered for with 'accessories', it all just seems like an exercise in marketing and 'window shopping' for the child.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by tiny View Post
    Hmm... Yeah... I get that... But, I just wonder where the "fantasies of little girls" come from...? Are they natural instincts, or has society "told" them this is what they "must" aspire to...? If it's the latter, I just wonder if we couldn't try to inspire "healthier" and more realistic ideals in children.

    "Ideals" come into and out of fashion. At one point, the English upper-classes would whiten their faces; now, they're more likely to tan them. And there's nothing that says that a princess HAS to be unrealistically tall and skinny. They can still be magical and otherwise unrealistic.

    The problem with the skinny dolls is that, if these are taken to be unconscious role-models, children may recognise how far short they fall physically from their ideals and take drastic measures (unhealthy dieting, weight-related anxiety, anorexia nervosa, etc.).

    With other "unrealistic" elements (such as magic, super-powers, etc.), there's no real danger that these abilities can turn into maladaptive behaviour because (unlike with weight/appearance), there's nothing you can do to make yourself more "magical".

    The problem with the unrealistically-proportioned dolls isn't that they are unreal. Fairies (dolls with wings) won't harm children, no matter how much a kid want to grow wings! Skinny dolls can attribute to psychological harm, if their skinnyness goes beyond fantasy and becomes a personal goal.
    It doesn't matter if they are "natural" and I hate this idea of "natural". What is natural? Wanting to be a superhero isn't 'natural'.. gawsh, wanting to be a powerful businessman isn't natural. Our society creates things because that's what society does. It doesn't matter if the idea of a magical fairy princess is a "natural" desire, what matters is it's a legitimate one. There is nothing wrong with it. It being a social construct doesn't make it negative. Again, it's the idea that girls only can and must be this way is the problem. The way of being is just fine.

    The thing is, I have never.. ever.. ever. seen a little girl walk down a doll aisle and buy a doll BECAUSE of her body. They buy dolls because of the themes of the dolls, the clothes, the way they look as a whole. Yes, their body proportions come into play.. and often can carry these themes but as a little girls or little boys, this isn't the FOCUS. I've never once seen a little girl make a doll choice BECAUSE of the dolls that doll had a thin waist. She just had one.

    The problem is our framing REAL people has having unrealistic body proportions that's the problem. If people want girls to have more realistic body standards, then we as a society stop only letting girls with conventionally attractive bodies be the supermodels and the pop stars. There isn't even anything wrong with a woman who is naturally very skinny or attractive, or who works hard to become that way. The problem again, the idea that this is the ONLY way to be.

    I'm tired of people treating Barbie as if she's a problem. Like me and my sister were saying, as people who are passionate about super heroes and Barbie.. I think Barbie's a way better role model then Batman, or Iron Man. (I love them too! They don't NEED to be good role models.) Barbie's a sweet and talented girl who stimulates the economy and whose life is rather fun and positive. What she does is fun, so what's wrong with wanting to do it too? She's pretty.. what's wrong with wanting to be a super pretty girl? As long as girls are told that Barbie's prettiness doesn't mean they aren't pretty too.. that's what's important.

  9. #9

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    Oh, crumbs! We're cross-posting again!



    Quote Originally Posted by gigglemuffinz View Post
    See, this is exactly what I'm talking about.

    Don't take this personally, but like.. who are you to shame the dreams of cooking, shopping, and being pretty? To treat these things as lesser or somehow petty? Who are you to wish these things are dead? What we just need is a society that allows both things to be enjoyed by WHOEVER wants to enjoy them, instead of destroying the things and shaming femininity and praising masculinity. How are these not valid dreams? What's wrong with loving pink and princess? Dreaming of feminine things isn't the problem, it's the expectation that all girls SHOULD be feminine that's the problem.

    I hate people avoiding attacking our gender expectations by simply switching the narrative and trying to destroy femininity.
    Whaaaaat?! No, no, no! Please, I think we're on the same side here (maybe, almost, sort-of...).

    If I'm trying to destroy anything at all, it's the idea that women are pre-programmed to be "feminine" (as you put it) and men are "pre-programmed" to be masculine... and that society is best if men stick to manly stuff an women stick to womanly stuff.

    Children (and adults too) should be free to explore who they are in relation to the world, whether that be cooking, organising, repairing, gardening, counselling, whatever. They should not have roles imposed upon them. Boys should be free to play with dolls, and girls should be allowed to be interested in dinosaurs... or whatever.

    The problem with pink isn't that girls LOVE it... it's that they are PROGRAMMED to love it; that a whole self-serving commercial industry has formed to sell girls an identity that involves pink. What I hate, as I said, isn't the colour; it's the way that it's imposed upon girls and used as a tribal badge of identity to sell products to naive, psychologically-easy-to-manipulate kids. It teaches girls not to think for themselves, but to follow what everyone else likes.



    Quote Originally Posted by gigglemuffinz View Post
    Dreaming of feminine things isn't the problem, it's the expectation that all girls SHOULD be feminine that's the problem.
    I agree! The expectation, and social pressures to conform are the problem.

    Although... in a way... (and maybe this is my problem of being too asexual and androgynous)... The idea that anything should be perceived as "feminine" (or masculine) seems to be a problem to me.

    If people are given a variety of role-models and encouraged to be well-rounded people regardless of their gender, then the concept of "feminine" and "masculine" should disappear completely. Then, without nonsensical social pressures, both genders would be free to aspire to whatever healthy desire piques their interest.

    But... then again... the idea that anyone would aspire to anything as soul-destroyingly vacuous as "shopping" or "being pretty" (i.e. extreme vanity) is hard for me to understand... Those things seem to have been invented as "displays of wealth and virility" by rich husbands.

  10. #10

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    Everybody, calm the F down. I never said that they should phase out and get rid of Barbie, Bratz, or any other doll, I just thought that maybe it would be nice to have more naturally proportionate dolls ALONGSIDE the unrealistically proportioned dolls. I believe that little girls AND boys should be able to act out whatever fantasies they want with their dolls, there is nothing wrong with a little girl or boy wanting to be a princess or prince. Parent AND children should have the option to buy a realistic doll, but if they don't want a realistically proportioned doll, they should be able to buy a differnt doll. As for sexual stuff, bratz didn't look like prostitues all the time, but sometimes they did have skimpy or reveling clothes. Barbie also had the "Candy Glam" line a few years ago that made barbie look like a prostitute, so it's not just limited to a particular line of dolls.

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