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Thread: Toxicity

  1. #1

    Default Toxicity

    So before I begin let me say that the link posted below leads to another forum found on this site in the Diaper Talk Thread. Now with that out of the way I need to half vent half bring light to something I have noticed so often within groups/organizations/communities/identities both in history and as the thread below should show currently an air of toxicity. Cultural and group toxicity is present in so many areas of society and it has never made sense to me. In truth it has often left me frustrated. For example within the LGBTQAI community each individual group fights for their own rights and aims and gains and I understand this. It is significant to seek to grow your own rights for it directly affects you, but how hard is it to also acknowledge you are part of a greater whole I.e. LGBTQAI! This kind of thing can be seen throughout society and history for example the woman's suffrage movement vs the black freedom movement. I understand society perpetuates division and divisiveness, but I beg you try to be consciously aware of how your actions feed into this cycle because it is only when we work from within that any change beyond can come.

    So onto my main point this thread http://www.adisc.org/forum/showthrea...aper-In-Family
    I got on today because I like lurking in the threads seeing if anything of note comes up and I enjoy see peoples thoughts and what they have to say, but when I read this it made me both upset and sad. I love this community and the responses in this thread were so incredibly harsh and unforgiving. Firstly let me say I understand the poster of the thread was breaking rules and was also asking for assistance in working to undergo something which is consider by myself and others as harmful, but that does not excuse the response. If this Adisc is intended to be a safe haven for people within all communities to seek acceptance and support then why the overwhelming toxic reaction! That is not something found in a safe haven that is something found in the internet..... Even if the person was a troll or someone who was looking for attention that is not excuse to be toxic! If they are saying things like, "I'm ready to die alone. Have no social life. I just want to be incontinent." I don't care if this person is a troll or an attention seeker you DO NOT respond toxicly. If this person is truly suffering or struggling to the point of feeling this way then at the very least advise them to seek counseling and to talk openly with their family or someone they trust about their feelings. Don't just dismiss them as a troll or a terrible person that kind of behavior sends a message to the people who read it. Instead of seeing a community of supportive though stern and honest individuals it shows a community who supports only that it deems worth supporting only that which 'fits' with in the confines of the scope of YOUR idea of what it means to be in this community or to be a member seeking welcome...... A final note THIS IS ALL MY VIEW AND OPINION if you agree cool if not share why and thanks for reading.

  2. #2

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    He broke a rule, we said what we all had to say, bottom line. Not being mean about it but it says it up there and I highly doubt we were going to give him advice on how to damage his bladder. Of course him saying he can do whatever the hell he wants is not a positive attitude towards him and stuff had to be said in order for him to realize he is at a young age where he shouldn't do this kind of thing to his body JUST to get to wear 24/7.

    If we would have given advice, we "also" would be breaking the rules.

  3. #3

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    The problem here is that people don't understand what support is and is not. Supporting someone doesn't mean you mollycoddle them in whatever they want. And in many cases it can mean telling them forcefully the exact opposite of what they want to hear. If my fiancee came home tomorrow and told me she was going to chop off her left tit I'm not being supportive by handing her a knife. I'm being supportive by getting her to be compliant with me by any means necessary in stopping her from doing that and getting her support to get to the root of the issue.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by AEsahaettr View Post
    The problem here is that people don't understand what support is and is not. Supporting someone doesn't mean you mollycoddle them in whatever they want. And in many cases it can mean telling them forcefully the exact opposite of what they want to hear. If my fiancee came home tomorrow and told me she was going to chop off her left tit I'm not being supportive by handing her a knife. I'm being supportive by getting her to be compliant with me by any means necessary in stopping her from doing that and getting her support to get to the root of the issue.
    I think the difference is that sometimes clearly explaining what it is you want to say, but doing so in a way that makes sure the person know you are coming from a friendly place is the more effective option.

    Obviously there have been times where the harsh and blunt method is more effective, but I believe common 'users' of the practice rely on it too heavily when it's not always the best tool for every situation. I don't even particularly think it's that effective of a tool for most situations. Especially since many times I feel like I see many people use it as a crutch so they can't be criticized for rude behavior.

    I really do believe that speaking like a friend, empathizing and understanding where the poster is coming from and why they are asking what they are doing, and making sure the poster understands you are coming from a supportive place can be a highly effective method of support. I've honestly found it nearly works in every situation where other people felt necessary to do the blunt and harsh method. The difference between, "You shouldn't do that you idiot!" and "You shouldn't do that! We want to help you!" can go a long way.

    Basically sometimes what gets called mollycoddling really isn't' even always "coddling".. it's simply being nice. Which is something I think our site should always strive for.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by gigglemuffinz View Post
    I think the difference is that sometimes clearly explaining what it is you want to say, but doing so in a way that makes sure the person know you are coming from a friendly place is the more effective option.

    Obviously there have been times where the harsh and blunt method is more effective, but I believe common 'users' of the practice rely on it too heavily when it's not always the best tool for every situation. I don't even particularly think it's that effective of a tool for most situations. Especially since many times I feel like I see many people use it as a crutch so they can't be criticized for rude behavior.

    I really do believe that speaking like a friend, empathizing and understanding where the poster is coming from and why they are asking what they are doing, and making sure the poster understands you are coming from a supportive place can be a highly effective method of support. I've honestly found it nearly works in every situation where other people felt necessary to do the blunt and harsh method. The difference between, "You shouldn't do that you idiot!" and "You shouldn't do that! We want to help you!" can go a long way.

    Basically sometimes what gets called mollycoddling really isn't' even always "coddling".. it's simply being nice. Which is something I think our site should always strive for.
    This poster captures perfectly my intention for creating this forum. This approach is what I am talking about this is what should of been done with regards to poster like the one who made the thread. I'm not saying you shouldn't try to get him to stop. I'm not saying you should give him advice on how to continue down and obviously dangerous path. I'm saying you should try to dissuade the poster and offer help and support in coming to terms with the true root of the problem. If my sister was threatening to cut off her hand I would find out why she wishes to do so and try to reach the root of the problem. Being driven to irrational action that seems obvious from the outside isn't always obvious from the inside. From the inside what you are wanting to do may seem the only route.

  6. #6
    acorn

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    There is something very off, when on an 18+ site people ask for advice on how to permanently maim themselves to justify their desire to wear diapers 24/7. Even more off, when it also includes how to get parents to foot the bill for them.

    Indisputable that the person in question has issues, for which we can only offer generic “seek help” advice in those circumstances. We on here are in no position to offer any level of qualified assistance …medical or psychotherapy…. to those who would benefit from either service. I’d argue that since the poster did not see fit to read and try to understand the rules, it is equally un-lightly that he will read any nay-saying arguments. Harsh as that sounds, you may face it as the reality of the situation.

    What’s going for him in his defense is as a Turk, English is assuredly not his first language. Also ….we should note…. he did not disable Google spell check “sue e culled pest on ear” just like the rest of us apparently do. We should not hold against him - his inability to see how the rules do apply to himself, regardless of who would chose to throw that stone - it would most certainly be a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

  7. #7
    MarchinBunny

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    Quote Originally Posted by gigglemuffinz View Post
    I think the difference is that sometimes clearly explaining what it is you want to say, but doing so in a way that makes sure the person know you are coming from a friendly place is the more effective option.

    Obviously there have been times where the harsh and blunt method is more effective, but I believe common 'users' of the practice rely on it too heavily when it's not always the best tool for every situation. I don't even particularly think it's that effective of a tool for most situations. Especially since many times I feel like I see many people use it as a crutch so they can't be criticized for rude behavior.

    I really do believe that speaking like a friend, empathizing and understanding where the poster is coming from and why they are asking what they are doing, and making sure the poster understands you are coming from a supportive place can be a highly effective method of support. I've honestly found it nearly works in every situation where other people felt necessary to do the blunt and harsh method. The difference between, "You shouldn't do that you idiot!" and "You shouldn't do that! We want to help you!" can go a long way.

    Basically sometimes what gets called mollycoddling really isn't' even always "coddling".. it's simply being nice. Which is something I think our site should always strive for.
    The thing is, it all depends on ones personality. I personally am very blunt. Not because I purposefully try to be, but simply because I am. In most cases, it does work for me too, never had to many issues with it.

    The only time I have issues with being blunt is when a person clearly already made up their mind and doesn't want to listen to reason. I present the facts, and I simply leave it at that. If they want to listen, they will. If they don't, they wont.

    In most cases once someone made up their mind, it doesn't matter how you go about explaining it to them.


    As for the OP. What was said in that thread I wouldn't consider toxic. All they did was be honest and blunt. What was said isn't inaccurate.
    Toxic would be more along the lines of pretty much insulting the person, telling them they should go off themselves .. ect. You know. . something like youtube comments. No reasoning, just hate.

    Edit: Also I have to point out Snivy's first few comment in the thread sounds really polite to me and explains himself real well. It only started to get more blunt and harsh when the OP wasn't listening.

  8. #8

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    I would have to agree with brabbit1987 about how the thread was handled. Many people immediately called out that this violates the rules, that the reason it violates the rules is because it is not a smart idea, and then asked why the thread starter would want to do something like that. After getting responses as to why they would want to do such a thing, many people offered alternative ideas as to what to do for the original thread starter to get to a better place in life.

    If you go through the incontinence section, there are people there who are incontinent for a variety of reasons, and there are also those who started out as DL's and found as they age that they are starting to have problems with incontinence. It is EXTREMELY rare to find someone who started out as a DL who made themselves incontinent (however they did it matters not) who is actually happy with the decision.

    Those who are incontinent first and then become AB/DL usually do so as a method of helping themselves cope with it all. The people who are DL first and then start losing continence find that they want the incontinence gone as well. Almost all of us who are incontinent and AB/DL wish our incontinence was gone, though we would probably continue to wear diapers on and off for fun. Having the ability to choose when you get to diaper up is a lot easier in life. Diapering up is no longer a fun activity when you are incontinent--it's a regular chore.

    There will be people who won't listen to the voice of experience, that is just the way the world works. As a parent, I can tell you that this happens all the time with your kids. From the time I was in high school to the point I graduated from college, my opinion of my father's world views went from him knowing absolutely nothing about how the world worked to him having figured it out decades before I did. I see the same thing happening with my own children; my youngest thinks we have no clue, my son who is still in college is now learning that Mom and Dad aren't really that dumb, while my oldest daughter who is out on her own and married is regularly coming to us for advice because we have so much experience.

    There was actually a thread one time (quite a while ago) in the incontinence forum as to why incontinence really sucks. Those of us who deal with incontinence listed all the little things that happen in our daily lives that are just annoying. I like to think that anyone who wanted to become incontinent and read that post had their eyes opened a bit, that they could think, "I never thought about that," and reviewed their choices. Some times, that is the best sort of support, to show someone all facets of a decision. Even with that, some people will take the attitude that, "It won't happen to me," but there is little we can do to help them.

  9. #9

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    I think it's good to ask the question periodically if we're handling problems well within our own community. In this case, I don't see it as far off, although I would like to see less harping on the rules in posts. If they violate the rules, a report is fine and let the mods sort it out (they are reasonable and fair and it's their job). There is very little served by building a culture of fear around what is or isn't appropriate simply due to the rules.

    More important in this specific case and often in general is why these things are inadvisable in and of themselves, outside of the rules. Most of the posts in that thread did address that but how many times do we need to hear "X is against the rules" in the same thread? If you have anything to say while waiting for the inevitable thread closure, make it count.

  10. #10
    MarchinBunny

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
    I think it's good to ask the question periodically if we're handling problems well within our own community. In this case, I don't see it as far off, although I would like to see less harping on the rules in posts. If they violate the rules, a report is fine and let the mods sort it out (they are reasonable and fair and it's their job). There is very little served by building a culture of fear around what is or isn't appropriate simply due to the rules.

    More important in this specific case and often in general is why these things are inadvisable in and of themselves, outside of the rules. Most of the posts in that thread did address that but how many times do we need to hear "X is against the rules" in the same thread? If you have anything to say while waiting for the inevitable thread closure, make it count.
    As many times as needed for the person to understand. It was mentioned and the person kept on going, and sometimes you think you need to revise with how you said it for them to understand better.

    I think the situations was handled perfectly fine. There is nothing wrong with telling others about the rules and mentioning them. Leaving it up to the mods every time is actually more of a hassle for the mods. This is something that can be handled by the community perfectly fine. This isn't something that absolutely requires a mod. In fact, I think it would look worse if we just ignored that it was against the rules and reported it. Because then the person in question will not understand until that mod finally comes along and explains it to them. In which case, they could already feel like the community is uninviting.

    It's simply not an easy situations to make claims on which is the right or wrong way to handle it.

    Edit: Also ... I think asking the question if we are handling problems in the community well is a stupid question, because it's purely based on opinion. The question means nothing because there is no way to tell if it was actually handled correctly or not.

    Now of course, there will be times when it's obvious something wasn't handled correctly, usually when it involves flaming and actual toxic behavior. In which case, questioning it again is pointless because ... well it's obvious. That is what obvious means. Noticeable .. Apparent.

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