Danger of hiding who you are

Full discrepancy disclosure, I'm an advocate of being more open about the AB/DL self, but still being careful about it.

I'm sure this thread will be a bit of a firestorm because of the debate on how different our thing is to homosexuality, but I think the most important thing I would like to contemplate on this thread is the life expectancy problem brought by this video.

http://www.ted.com/talks/morgana_bailey_the_danger_of_hiding_who_you_are

According to the video, lgbt people that live in suppressing communities have a life expectancy loss of 12 years. Do you think that we are that different in this particular problem?

No, I don't think we face the extent of challenges that the LGBT community does - especially in more conservative environments. Obviously we're a smaller community than the LGBT community, so there's less news about ABDL, but I'm yet to hear of a suicide, a stress-related death or even a homicide which has been brought on by the fact the person is an ABDL. Contrastingly, those are unfortunately common occurrences (suicides in particular) for LGBTs in families, communities and even countries which are extremely hostile towards LGBTs - and whilst I wouldn't want to make assumptions without statistics, it often seems to be that Transgender individuals suffer from an especially large amount of internal and external issues regarding their sexual orientation and identity.

I get frustrated sometimes that I have to be necessarily discreet about being an ABDL, but it's not a cause of extreme stress for me, or for any other ABDLs I've encountered. I don't feel that I'm 'hiding' or 'denying' anything as major as my sexual orientation and identity by being cautious about anyone discovering my AB/Little side. If we suffer any of the same problems as the LGBT community, I think we experience them at a less severe and pervasive level.

Tyger said:

Full discrepancy, I'm an advocate of being more open about the AB/DL self, but still being careful about it.

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Discrepancy? No need to beat yourself up.

I can't watch the video right now, but will do so tonight. Guessing that it has to do with chronic stress, though. If that's the case, then I suppose some of us might expect a similar fate. It's not a perfect comparison, of course. One might also wonder whether those who suffer the most with hiding ABDL are those for whom the tendencies are especially dominant. In those cases, difficulty moderating oneself might be a predictor of rejection when coming out. In other words, while keeping it in might be bad for you in a way similar to LGBT, coming out may be disproportionately harmful, so it's not obvious to me that being open is some sort of answer.

Again, I could be way out on a limb, having not watched the video.

I'm not actively opposed to being more open about this stuff, by the way. I think some look at it as a way to build broad acceptance of ABDL as a lifestyle or sexuality, though, and I simply don't think it works that way, not with our numbers being as small as they are. There's no viable, coherent "cause" here. In short: If you're going to come out about ABDL, do it for you.

Tyger said:

According to the video, lgbt people that live in suppressing communities have a life expectancy loss of 12 years. Do you think that we are that different in this particular problem?

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No I do not believe we are that different from the rest of the LGBT communities actually. Please keep in mind I said I don't think we are exactly the same either. There are similarities but there are differences as well.


Why is it I can't go to a park and suck on my pacifier while wearing a dress openly without saying a word to anyone to simply read a children's book without being ostracized for it? Why is it there is in fact a false perception that AB's are "pedophiles"? Do I not have the right to simply relax in a park and be myself? I would not be trying to raise awareness or anything like that simply because I feel no need to do so. Neither would I be doing that for attention because I can care less about what other people think since I am not hurting anyone. I would theoretically be doing that simply because the weather is good and I need to slow down, relax, and enjoy the sun or something like that because it's not healthy for me to not be myself most of the time. But I sure would draw a lot of unwanted and negative attention to myself if I did that in real life right? The truth of the matter is no one has the right to tell me how to live as long as it does no harm to me or anyone else.


What I would like actually is to simply be ignored if I was to do something like that. But I can't do that and expect to not be targeted for allegedly being a "pedophile" or a "lunatic" or otherwise ostracized like that correct? I could even be physically attacked despite my intimidating presence simply because of me allegedly being a "pedophile" or something like that. The reason why there are not a lot about stories like that is because there are simply not enough AB's in the world to make those stories common in the first place. But that does not mean they don't happen or are any less real.

Cottontail said:

Discrepancy? No need to beat yourself up.

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Lol, I mean disclosure.

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Sanch said:

but I'm yet to hear of a suicide, a stress-related death or even a homicide which has been brought on by the fact the person is an ABDL.

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I haven't heard of any either, but I remember when we had 13+ year old's on here, there was a lot of talk about suicide.

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accepted said:

What I would like actually is to simply be ignored if I was to do something like that.

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I think that this would actually be very ideal. Unless somebody has something to say that is positive about my ab/dl side, if it isn't harming anybody, then leave it alone.

This last Halloween, I had a leopard tail as my costume to work, and got sort of a half and half response out of it. Some thought it was awesome, and some thought it was peculiar. My boss in particular thought it was weird. It would be so much easier to be myself if the people who thought something was weird would just shut up, and the people who thought something was awesome would continue with their compliments. I swear that one negative comment diminishes 2-3 compliments. It just makes it harder is all.

Tyger said:

LI haven't heard of any either, but I remember when we had 13+ year old's on here, there was a lot of talk about suicide.

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Without wanting to cast any aspersion on whether individuals discussing suicide actually have the propensity to take their own life, or are speaking as a cry for help, there's a big difference between saying you want to kill yourself and actually doing it. As someone who has experienced the devastation of someone close to me committing suicide, I can say that it's not always the people who talk most about ending their life that actually take the steps to do it.

Sanch said:

Without wanting to cast any aspersion on whether individuals discussing suicide actually have the propensity to take their own life, or are speaking as a cry for help, there's a big difference between saying you want to kill yourself and actually doing it. As someone who has experienced the devastation of someone close to me committing suicide, I can say that it's not always the people who talk most about ending their life that actually take the steps to do it.

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I'm perfectly aware of that, but discussing it is much closer to doing it, than not discussing it at all. And I remember one member who talked about exactly how he was going to do it and where. I haven't had anybody close to me commit the act, but I did spend an hour with a stranger who was cutting his wrists, and tried to stop him(until the police came). Around two years later, after having seen the act, I contemplated it pretty heavily myself. I can't say that I know for sure what amount of emotion that the young members were going through, but if it was anything like the level I was at, it wasn't to get attention, and it wasn't healthy or deserved.

Sanch said:

Without wanting to cast any aspersion on whether individuals discussing suicide actually have the propensity to take their own life, or are speaking as a cry for help, there's a big difference between saying you want to kill yourself and actually doing it. As someone who has experienced the devastation of someone close to me committing suicide, I can say that it's not always the people who talk most about ending their life that actually take the steps to do it.

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Tyger said:

I'm perfectly aware of that, but discussing it is much closer to doing it, than not discussing it at all. And I remember one member who talked about exactly how he was going to do it and where. I haven't had anybody close to me commit the act, but I did spend an hour with a stranger who was cutting his wrists, and tried to stop him(until the police came). Around two years later, after having seen the act, I contemplated it pretty heavily myself. I can't say that I know for sure what amount of emotion that the young members were going through, but if it was anything like the level I was at, it wasn't to get attention, and it wasn't healthy or deserved.

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It's hardly ever a cry for help because usually people in so much despair cannot imagine what it would be like to be happy anymore. I know because I did try to go through with it once and I was only thinking (not thinking very clearly at that) that I was simply wasting oxygen. The one's that really need to be watched out for are the one's who talk about it then not say much of anything at a certain point because they are probably about to try suicide. At the point where they become silent is when they see it as a waste of time to cry for help essentially. I know it was like that for me. I even ate a meal before trying because I wanted to think how I was going to do it and thought it would clear my head up so I could do it "right". Most people thought I was fine and I even said hello to some of my friends that day like nothing was wrong because they did not need to worry about never seeing me again as I thought(I thought wrong of course) I would not be missed. The truth of the matter is I know exactly what it's like because I am the anomaly that just happened to live through it unlike so many other's.


To this day I still have no clue what my self worth really is because I can't see myself as being useful which is why I am mystified when people tell me I am some sort of a crusader or something grandiose like that. I never found out what it felt like to hate myself more then my enemies ever could but I can say I came as close to doing that as one can get without that being the case. My obsession with excellence simply never allows me to boast like that because I simply don't care enough to concern myself with the notion usually. This is why I have to help other's because it's the only thing left for me that makes any sense of my being alive as somehow worthwhile. This is the danger of hiding who we are sometimes.

The problem is that coming out often causes more stress than staying in the closet, at least in the beginning. I've experienced both, coming out as gay when I was in college, and having to face my accusatory parents, admitting to having sex with my best friend, and wearing and using diapers. What a horrible combination at that young age.

As most of us have said in the past, choosing a same sex life partner, and wanting to live in this world as a loving couple, means that to be happy, homosexuality must be accepted by others. I don't intend to introduce my diaper to my friends, or at the office Christmas party. It's just not the same. That doesn't mean that having to hide a part of my personality doesn't create stress, or even risk. It does, but living openly with the one you love seems to me to be a must in order to be happy. To be condemned for loving someone of the same sex could certainly lead to extreme, self harming behavior.

At the same time, I have heard and read other blogs where AB/DLs are openly condemned, being called weird and sick. That stresses me to some small degree, but it is small. They won't ever know that I'm "one of them". But if my life partner was of the same sex, everyone who's close to me would know. Not having the acceptance and respect would be very difficult indeed.

Disclosure/Non-Disclosure is a difficult subject, and it is subjective, depending upon the individual and the timing and circumstances. Being Gay myself, the only place I am safe being open about being Gay is at my Open & Affirming LGBT Accepting Church or with other autistic and cerebral palsy disabled adults I know who are LGBT.

Being open is a lot more likely to cause stress. In many cases it isn't even something you have to be open about it. I don't think the LGBT and AB/DL community share the same kind of suicide issues. If I was to ever commit suicide due to my AB/DL side, it would have likely been because my family didn't understand it, and at the time I also didn't understand it. I felt like it was ruining my life and just tearing me down. This is something that can be avoided though if you have good parents.

As for being open in public about it? Why? I really don't see what the reason anyone would want to do this for. If you don't want to be noticed .. then it's counter productive to want to do it in public.

accepted said:

It's hardly ever a cry for help because usually people in so much despair cannot imagine what it would be like to be happy anymore. I know because I did try to go through with it once and I was only thinking (not thinking very clearly at that) that I was simply wasting oxygen. The one's that really need to be watched out for are the one's who talk about it then not say much of anything at a certain point because they are probably about to try suicide. At the point where they become silent is when they see it as a waste of time to cry for help essentially. I know it was like that for me. I even ate a meal before trying because I wanted to think how I was going to do it and thought it would clear my head up so I could do it "right". Most people thought I was fine and I even said hello to some of my friends that day like nothing was wrong because they did not need to worry about never seeing me again as I thought(I thought wrong of course) I would not be missed. The truth of the matter is I know exactly what it's like because I am the anomaly that just happened to live through it unlike so many other's.


To this day I still have no clue what my self worth really is because I can't see myself as being useful which is why I am mystified when people tell me I am some sort of a crusader or something grandiose like that. I never found out what it felt like to hate myself more then my enemies ever could but I can say I came as close to doing that as one can get without that being the case. My obsession with excellence simply never allows me to boast like that because I simply don't care enough to concern myself with the notion usually. This is why I have to help other's because it's the only thing left for me that makes any sense of my being alive as somehow worthwhile. This is the danger of hiding who we are sometimes.

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Those who say they are going to commit suicide are the ones who usually never end up actually doing it. The only reason you would tell someone about it is to see their reaction and to get attention. Being transgender myself, I can't think of a time when I told anyone I would commit suicide. I mean doesn't that defeat the purpose? If you want to end it, why would you want someone to stop you?

Now if someone was to suddenly go silent about it and no longer do that type of thing. Then I suppose they should be watched at that point. However, it could also be that they learned it's not going to get them anywhere in life, to keep threatening people that they will commit suicide.

accepted said:

Why is it I can't go to a park and suck on my pacifier while wearing a dress openly without saying a word to anyone to simply read a children's book without being ostracized for it? Why is it there is in fact a false perception that AB's are "pedophiles"? Do I not have the right to simply relax in a park and be myself? I would not be trying to raise awareness or anything like that simply because I feel no need to do so. Neither would I be doing that for attention because I can care less about what other people think since I am not hurting anyone. I would theoretically be doing that simply because the weather is good and I need to slow down, relax, and enjoy the sun or something like that because it's not healthy for me to not be myself most of the time. But I sure would draw a lot of unwanted and negative attention to myself if I did that in real life right? The truth of the matter is no one has the right to tell me how to live as long as it does no harm to me or anyone else.


What I would like actually is to simply be ignored if I was to do something like that. But I can't do that and expect to not be targeted for allegedly being a "pedophile" or a "lunatic" or otherwise ostracized like that correct? I could even be physically attacked despite my intimidating presence simply because of me allegedly being a "pedophile" or something like that. The reason why there are not a lot about stories like that is because there are simply not enough AB's in the world to make those stories common in the first place. But that does not mean they don't happen or are any less real.

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The thing is you can do this. Yes, you will likely end up with people giving you negative looks. This is the type of thing transgender people have to deal with on a daily bases if they go out dressed as who they are. However, there is a very huge difference between being an AB/DL and transgender. Being an AB/DL doesn't absolutely require you to do those things in public. These are not things that are required 24/7 and can be accomplished in the comfort of your own home. You wish not to be noticed, and that is exactly how you can do it. Transgender people don't get that luxury because we do want to be noticed and be seen as our preferred gender.

The reason people react bad in these situations is because they don't know anything about it. You just sort of have to deal with it if you really want to go to the park and do that. If you can't deal with it, then don't do it. Not much else you can do. If you want other to just ignore you and not take notice, then why even bother going to the park? Just make a nice backyard instead that is fenced in. Or .. is it requirement for others to have to see you?

brabbit1987 said:

Being open is a lot more likely to cause stress. In many cases it isn't even something you have to be open about it. I don't think the LGBT and AB/DL community share the same kind of suicide issues. If I was to ever commit suicide due to my AB/DL side, it would have likely been because my family didn't understand it, and at the time I also didn't understand it. I felt like it was ruining my life and just tearing me down. This is something that can be avoided though if you have good parents.

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I know. I simply said they share similiar issues. They never where exactly the same. It was a combination of my own family not understanding who and what I really was on top of stress from having to deal with chronic homelessness. Top that off with a mentality where I seriously never thought about my own well being due to me thinking about everyone else was more important resulting in me literally ignoring my own needs it becomes obvious what went wrong.

As for being open in public about it? Why? I really don't see what the reason anyone would want to do this for. If you don't want to be noticed .. then it's counter productive to want to do it in public.

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Because I want to enjoy reading a book in the sun and be left alone in peace. I want to be able to simply buy a ice cream without being harassed. Because I want to live and be myself without being physically attacked because doing that would be considered a vulnerability in the eyes of a predator. That's why.

Those who say they are going to commit suicide are the ones who usually never end up actually doing it. The only reason you would tell someone about it is to see their reaction and to get attention. Being transgender myself, I can't think of a time when I told anyone I would commit suicide. I mean doesn't that defeat the purpose? If you want to end it, why would you want someone to stop you?

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I did that to see if anyone cared. I wanted to make sure I was doing the right thing from my deranged point of view (of course I was wrong but I was never allowed to see that fact until afterwards). I never make decisions like that lightly because I recognize even at my worst state of mind that I could be wrong and I needed to make sure it was right to do so. I never said I was going to kill myself directly I just asked people who knew me what would happen if I was gone. 5 people who knew me just said life would go on in so many words. That's why it never defeated the purpose for me. It unfortunately justified it in my eyes at the time.

Now if someone was to suddenly go silent about it and no longer do that type of thing. Then I suppose they should be watched at that point. However, it could also be that they learned it's not going to get them anywhere in life, to keep threatening people that they will commit suicide.

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I don't recall that happening with me. I never did it for attention. I simply asked to make sure it was the right thing to do and I simply got bad information unknowingly. You can never tell if someone is serious or not which is why it's encouraged to call someone at the slightest hint of them being suicidal. When people go silent it means they made the decision to go through with it and have simply moved their thought processing to how they plan to kill themselves more or less in line with end of life choices. I made my living will that day and was thinking about waiting for a train or try the drug overdose. I thought about the possibility of that train being derailed and my mentality resulted in thinking about the train operator so I decided to use the pills instead never knowing they would not do the job "right".

The thing is you can do this. Yes, you will likely end up with people giving you negative looks. This is the type of thing transgender people have to deal with on a daily bases if they go out dressed as who they are. However, there is a very huge difference between being an AB/DL and transgender. Being an AB/DL doesn't absolutely require you to do those things in public. These are not things that are required 24/7 and can be accomplished in the comfort of your own home. You wish not to be noticed, and that is exactly how you can do it. Transgender people don't get that luxury because we do want to be noticed and be seen as our preferred gender.

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I am free to make my own choices but I am not free from the consequences. The consequences in my case if I was to go out in a park wearing a dress to simply enjoy the sun and read a good book while sucking on a pacifier would include me getting mugged for allegedly being a "pedophile" at some point. Most of the time I would simply be harassed wherever I go for simply trying to enjoy the sun in a relaxing manner. Why does this have to be this way? Because of people acting like it's their business to tell me how to behave simply because they can't tolerate the reality I am hurting no one and that there is nothing wrong with doing this. So they make a problem of their own free will by choosing to be offended instead of ignoring me the way I want to be ignored. I cannot achieve that level of comfort in my own home simply because there are no people around willing to socialize in a mature decent manner and simply be allowed to live. I'm not shoving this into someone's face the way people want to think I'm trying to do. I should be allowed relax out in the sun with the expectation of being ignored at the very least. But I can't be ignored can I? There's the problem. Who is anyone to tell me how I should behave when I am doing nothing wrong in the first place? Doing this does not matter until society makes it matter. Why does it have to matter in to anyone what I do when I am not hurting anyone? It's the fear and/or people finding this offensive that motivates that. As for doing this 24/7 I agree you don't have to do that 24/7. It's just the reality that AB's can't be themselves at all in the public without there being severe consequences that happens to be the problem. Please keep in mind that problem is blown way out of proportion by both sides of that debate usually which is why it's a problem.


Just so you know I did want to mention that there are only similarities between being trans and being AB. Being trans is only barely a average analog or analogy for comparison purposes in regards to being AB from what I can tell. Being AB is even rarer then being trans most likely.

The reason people react bad in these situations is because they don't know anything about it. You just sort of have to deal with it if you really want to go to the park and do that. If you can't deal with it, then don't do it. Not much else you can do. If you want other to just ignore you and not take notice, then why even bother going to the park? Just make a nice backyard instead that is fenced in. Or .. is it requirement for others to have to see you?

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It is not just that they don't know anything about it. There are people on this site who clearly understand what it means to be AB. But they have not learned how to control their fear enough to be able tolerate the reality that there is nothing wrong with going to a park while wearing a dress to simply read a book just to relax. There are people here on this site who are willfully choosing to be ignorant simply because of their own fear. I live in a apartment and cannot get that fenced in section you mentioned. Also why should I pay money to set things up like that just so people don't have to choose to be offended by that if I had a house? As for it being a requirement for other's to see me it would be nice to simply wave hello to someone without expecting being tormented by them in some way shape or form while reading that book and otherwise be left in peace. It's not a requirement for people to have to see me. It's a requirement to simply be left in peace or be able to have a mature civilized conversation with someone about anything while doing that. But I am not getting that "luxury" and be allowed to live now am I? That's the intention. I want to be able to wear a dress in the middle of the park while reading a book sucking on my pacifier and for people to not even care about who and what I am at the very least. It's not supposed to matter to anyone but people choose to actually care in a negative way now don't they? Don't worry I am not planning on actually doing that any time soon and we are speaking theoretically here after all because I care about the collateral damage to this community.

Also I did want to compliment you on being very mature in this debate and want to show my appreciation about that. I know we don't see eye to eye but that does not have to mean we have to hate each other now do we? I am finding this debate rather refreshing actually so thank you for sharing your views with us here on ADISC. :smile:

brabbit1987 said:

Being open is a lot more likely to cause stress.

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Not for everyone.

For me, it's been just the opposite.

brabbit1987 said:

These are not things that are required 24/7 and can be accomplished in the comfort of your own home. You wish not to be noticed, and that is exactly how you can do it. Transgender people don't get that luxury because we do want to be noticed and be seen as our preferred gender.

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Not correct for everyone. I want to be noticed. I also would prefer to be seen as my preferred age but I can't. I also don't feel like keeping it at home is always enough. When I was young I used to always bring my stuffed animal tiger to school, and now that I'm older I can't. I wish I could bring it with me to work and school to help me with my discomfort in public but I can't. I'm the type that needs somewhere closer to 24/7

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JewelSparkles said:

Not for everyone.

For me, it's been just the opposite.

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Same for me except with my parents. Aside from that my life is much better

accepted said:

Because I want to enjoy reading a book in the sun and be left alone in peace. I want to be able to simply buy a ice cream without being harassed. Because I want to live and be myself without being physically attacked because doing that would be considered a vulnerability in the eyes of a predator. That's why.

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These are all things that do not require being in public to do. Sucking on a paci doesn't define who you are. You can still be yourself. That is like saying you can't be yourself unless you are smoking a cigarette. These are material things, not part of your personality. The same can be said of cloths. A trans person doesn't require to wear the same cloths of the gender they see themselves as. The cloths do not define who they are. They can still be themselves and wear the opposite gender clothing.

The issue with being trans is their personality is directly attacked by society. You have to pretend to be who you are not. That isn't the same as not being able to do thing you like to do, but in public. In no way, does not being able to do these things in public, harm you. Nor is it even required to be yourself.

I did that to see if anyone cared. I wanted to make sure I was doing the right thing from my deranged point of view (of course I was wrong but I was never allowed to see that fact until afterwards). I never make decisions like that lightly because I recognize even at my worst state of mind that I could be wrong and I needed to make sure it was right to do so. I never said I was going to kill myself directly I just asked people who knew me what would happen if I was gone. 5 people who knew me just said life would go on in so many words. That's why it never defeated the purpose for me. It unfortunately justified it in my eyes at the time.

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Yes this is very different than what I am talking about. Those who usually threaten to commit suicide are usually the ones who are likely not going to.

I don't recall that happening with me. I never did it for attention. I simply asked to make sure it was the right thing to do and I simply got bad information unknowingly. You can never tell if someone is serious or not which is why it's encouraged to call someone at the slightest hint of them being suicidal. When people go silent it means they made the decision to go through with it and have simply moved their thought processing to how they plan to kill themselves more or less in line with end of life choices. I made my living will that day and was thinking about waiting for a train or try the drug overdose. I thought about the possibility of that train being derailed and my mentality resulted in thinking about the train operator so I decided to use the pills instead never knowing they would not do the job "right".

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Again, because you are a different circumstance than what I was talking about.

I am free to make my own choices but I am not free from the consequences. The consequences in my case if I was to go out in a park wearing a dress to simply enjoy the sun and read a good book while sucking on a pacifier would include me getting mugged for allegedly being a "pedophile" at some point. Most of the time I would simply be harassed wherever I go for simply trying to enjoy the sun in a relaxing manner. Why does this have to be this way? Because of people acting like it's their business to tell me how to behave simply because they can't tolerate the reality I am hurting no one and that there is nothing wrong with doing this. So they make a problem of their own free will by choosing to be offended instead of ignoring me the way I want to be ignored. I cannot achieve that level of comfort in my own home simply because there are no people around willing to socialize in a mature decent manner and simply be allowed to live. I'm not shoving this into someone's face the way people want to think I'm trying to do. I should be allowed relax out in the sun with the expectation of being ignored at the very least. But I can't be ignored can I? There's the problem. Who is anyone to tell me how I should behave when I am doing nothing wrong in the first place? Doing this does not matter until society makes it matter. Why does it have to matter in to anyone what I do when I am not hurting anyone? It's the fear and/or people finding this offensive that motivates that. As for doing this 24/7 I agree you don't have to do that 24/7. It's just the reality that AB's can't be themselves at all in the public without there being severe consequences that happens to be the problem. Please keep in mind that problem is blown way out of proportion by both sides of that debate usually which is why it's a problem.

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I understand where you are coming from, but this doesn't just pertain to being an AB/DL. This can apply to anything anyone likes. Even being a gamer can be looked down on. You just sort of have to put up with it. I always hear people telling others how everything should be, and you know what ... you are right ... it should be that way. It isn't though. Why? Because not everyone agrees. That is simply the reality of it.

Just so you know I did want to mention that there are only similarities between being trans and being AB. Being trans is only barely a average analog or analogy for comparison purposes in regards to being AB from what I can tell. Being AB is even rarer then being trans most likely.

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I understand, but I think these two things are so far apart that the similarities mean nothing. After all, I am both, and I personally don't know why everyone compares the LGBT community with the AB/DL community. If anything to me, it sounds more along the lines of AB/DLs just trying to make their situation seem worse than it really is.

It is not just that they don't know anything about it. There are people on this site who clearly understand what it means to be AB. But they have not learned how to control their fear enough to be able tolerate the reality that there is nothing wrong with going to a park while wearing a dress to simply read a book just to relax. There are people here on this site who are willfully choosing to be ignorant simply because of their own fear. I live in a apartment and cannot get that fenced in section you mentioned. Also why should I pay money to set things up like that just so people don't have to choose to be offended by that if I had a house? As for it being a requirement for other's to see me it would be nice to simply wave hello to someone without expecting being tormented by them in some way shape or form while reading that book and otherwise be left in peace. It's not a requirement for people to have to see me. It's a requirement to simply be left in peace or be able to have a mature civilized conversation with someone about anything while doing that. But I am not getting that "luxury" and be allowed to live now am I? That's the intention.

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I am fairly open about being an AB/DL and I would even go out in public wearing a pacifier. I use the same name here as I do everywhere else. I don't run into as much trouble as you seem to think. As for wearing a dress ... you are going to get dirty looks. Get used to it. That is the best advice I can give you. It's not going to change .. no matter how much you think it should. You can still be yourself, without these physical objects. A want is very different than a need. You want to go out in public in a dress and suck a paci. It isn't something that is an integral part in order for you to be yourself.

I want to be able to wear a dress in the middle of the park while reading a book sucking on my pacifier and for people to not even care about who and what I am at the very least. It's not supposed to matter to anyone but people choose to actually care in a negative way now don't they? Don't worry I am not planning on actually doing that any time soon and we are speaking theoretically here after all because I care about the collateral damage to this community.

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Exactly, it's a want. It's not something that is absolutely necessary to be yourself, no matter how much you seem to act like it is. Also .. I am not trying to sound mean lol, I am only point out that this is just how it is.

Also I did want to compliment you on being very mature in this debate and want to show my appreciation about that. I know we don't see eye to eye but that does not have to mean we have to hate each other now do we? I am finding this debate rather refreshing actually so thank you for sharing your views with us here on ADISC. :smile:

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Agreed, it is an interesting debate, but I kinda already know the end to it. Being transgender, wishful thinking is a pretty common occurrence. Sometimes you just have to sit back, take a deep breath and realize ... the world isn't changing anytime soon. At least not to this extent.

JewelSparkles said:

Not for everyone.

For me, it's been just the opposite.

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Hence why I said more likely. I didn't say for everyone.

Tyger said:

Not correct for everyone. I want to be noticed. I also would prefer to be seen as my preferred age but I can't. I also don't feel like keeping it at home is always enough. When I was young I used to always bring my stuffed animal tiger to school, and now that I'm older I can't. I wish I could bring it with me to work and school to help me with my discomfort in public but I can't. I'm the type that needs somewhere closer to 24/7

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Then go ahead and do so. It's not liek these things are going to change. Sitting there and talking about it isn't going to make it happen.

Transgender people don't just sit and talk about it. They actually do it and they face the hatred head on. If you relaly think you want to be noticed, then there should be nothing stopping you.

Tyger said:

Not correct for everyone. I want to be noticed. I also would prefer to be seen as my preferred age but I can't. I also don't feel like keeping it at home is always enough. When I was young I used to always bring my stuffed animal tiger to school, and now that I'm older I can't. I wish I could bring it with me to work and school to help me with my discomfort in public but I can't. I'm the type that needs somewhere closer to 24/7

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You know you probably could bring a stuffed animal around with you and nobody would care. I have one on my desk at work and have only received compliments. My coworker even named her.

That said, I actually think that we might be considering the wrong question. Whether hidden or out, there are serious sources of stress in life, many that can arise fr being ABDL. I think living longer and, perhaps more importantly, living better is about finding ways to deal with your stress and accept yourself AND (this is important) your life situation.

Let me focus on the life situation point. There is an aspect of ABDL that seeks dependence on others. Being a baby means being cared for. In role play, that's fine, and even in regular life, it's good to have people watching out for us. But hating independence and being unhappy with having to fend for yourself can be a problem. It's asking to be a burden on others, and I think it invites depression and discontent. This is, perhaps not unique, but distinct from other fetishes and lifestyles and a problem for people with strong AB desires.

I think life has a lot to offer, and if you can find something you love doing that also earns you a living, that's ideal. If not, at least something tolerable that contributed to your local community in some way is worth doing and worth feeling good about doing. Even stuff like packing boxes in a warehouse contributes and is important work.

Remember that life is also a balance. Like I said to open this post, you can have a plushie around as an adult and it may be fine. Other people here have worn diapers to work before, and if it's inportant enough to anyone reading this, it can be made to work. But just being ABDL can't be 100% of your self, I think.

I think the only advocacy ABDL's need is better representation. I go on imvu a lot and I'm a little girl there or a fox but that's neither here not there. There are not a lot of chat rooms I can go in without being called a pedophile or reported and that could stand to change.

If given the opportunity however to live 24/7 as an AB I think is a tad rediculous. It's not something that needs to be out in the open for any real reason but if you want to have a paci and read a book in public as accepted expressed wanting to do then it's your right to do that.

People may be offended or stare but really it's up to you whether or not you let those actions stop or define you. This is your life and your world and you can live it however you choose.

I think the LGBT community has a shorter life span because the stress is greater on us and it's also dangerouse for us.

You may site that it's dangerous to be an adult baby in public too but adult baby's dont have centuries of hate crimes, systematic death sentences, rape therapys and laws to prevent them from being who they are in place either.

In certain parts of the world I could be legally murdered for my sexuality.

In certain parts of American, even where I live being beaten, raped or harassed is a very real threat. Just last week a young man was hit by a car and hospitalized by a group of boys who are proud that they "ran the faggot down"

I've been assaulted, beaten, bullied, raped and forced into a marriage I didn't want because of my sexuality and its things like that that make our life expectancy shorter and it's for those reasons that I generally get upset when people claim the adult baby struggle is the same.

I'm sorry you can't suck on a pacifier in public accepted but at least you didn't have to learn karate and start carrying a taser in your purse because a group of men thought they would try to straighten you out.

Penny said:

I think the only advocacy ABDL's need is better representation. I go on imvu a lot and I'm a little girl there or a fox but that's neither here not there. There are not a lot of chat rooms I can go in without being called a pedophile or reported and that could stand to change.

If given the opportunity however to live 24/7 as an AB I think is a tad rediculous. It's not something that needs to be out in the open for any real reason but if you want to have a paci and read a book in public as accepted expressed wanting to do then it's your right to do that.

People may be offended or stare but really it's up to you whether or not you let those actions stop or define you. This is your life and your world and you can live it however you choose.

I think the LGBT community has a shorter life span because the stress is greater on us and it's also dangerouse for us.

You may site that it's dangerous to be an adult baby in public too but adult baby's dont have centuries of hate crimes, systematic death sentences, rape therapys and laws to prevent them from being who they are in place either.

In certain parts of the world I could be legally murdered for my sexuality.

In certain parts of American, even where I live being beaten, raped or harassed is a very real threat. Just last week a young man was hit by a car and hospitalized by a group of boys who are proud that they "ran the faggot down"

I've been assaulted, beaten, bullied, raped and forced into a marriage I didn't want because of my sexuality and its things like that that make our life expectancy shorter and it's for those reasons that I generally get upset when people claim the adult baby struggle is the same.

I'm sorry you can't suck on a pacifier in public accepted but at least you didn't have to learn karate and start carrying a taser in your purse because a group of men thought they would try to straighten you out.

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Couldn't have said it better.

I think non-disclosure for gays is different. There are many ways it is but a main factor may be the relationships that they can't form if they stay in the closet. The following statistic is for heterosexual couples but I would assume it could be projected to gay couples too.

"The difference spikes in the 70-84 year old age group where the death rate for single people is almost double that of their married friends." (Australian Bureau of Statistics)

Basically, after age 40 people who are single start dying more than people who are in a long term relationship. Men are also more likely to die if they are single compared to women because women form better relationships with non-intimate partners.

Ok let's clear up this bad information about people who talk about suicide not killing themselves. That they just want to attention. Because the information people are saying is shit and false and has no basis in actual reality and is just misconceptions that have been passed on from other people or "experiences" that haven't been the complete picture. They may have known someone who killed themselves but they weren't around them 24/7 to know if the "silent ones" gave indications of needing help. Before spouting important crap please research it a little bit first. The first page on a suicide prevention website will list most of what has been said as "misconceptions."

Talking about suicide is NEVER just a "call for help." It is exceptionally serious. As a teacher, if a kid says "I'm gonna kill myself" in a joking way, it's my professional obligation to report it because voicing thoughts means they have already been internalised to some degree. Talking about suicide means they have been thinking about it. Yes, they want help. So why shouldn't they get it? Because it's only attention seeking? People who are contemplating suicide deserve more attention than society gives them. If they got the attention they needed they might not kill themselves. So, if someone ever says to you "I want to kill myself" take it bloody seriously. They might not do it now, it could be years down the track. I unfortunately had a boy I previously taught who was 13 years old when he killed himself last year. I taught him back in 2011. When he was ten he would often say (insert cute Aboriginal bush accent) "Oi Mister. If this lot don't stop being cheeky I'm garna kill myself." (Translate, if people don't stop teasing me I'll kill myself) I reported it multiple times to his parents and the school but the parents just said that he was just messing around and people say that kind of thing all the time. Unfortunately people do say it all the time and unfortunately people don't listen. This is one of the reasons why suicide is the biggest killer of men under the age of 40. Smoking, alcohol and car crashes combined don't match the numbers of suicide.

Nearly everyone who commits suicide has given some clue to their friends or family that they will do it. The "silent ones" in 99% of cases haven't been silent. They've let people know in different ways. For example, I can never bring myself to say "goodbye" to my parents because that could mean I might be going to attempt suicide. I always make sure I say "See you later." But they already know I'm at risk so they're always looking for signs. My parents picked up on my depression before I told them because, due to the suicide of my uncle and cousin, they knew the signs to look for. Educate yourself on depression and suicide and you could potentially save the life of a friend or family member.
Note - Like most suicidal people I don't want to die, I just want the pain to stop which is what seeking assistance from medical professionals, friends and family is meant to do. And taking someone seriously is the first step in helping someone get that help.
Other ways people may indicate suicidal thoughts
You'll be sorry when I'm dead
I can't see any way out
Everyone would be better off without me
I can't stand this world anymore
I wish I could just sleep and not wake up
Have you ever wished you were dead?
Do you ever wonder what it's like to be dead?

So please. Be informed before opening your mouth on important topics.

In the history of ADISC, several well-known and beloved members of this site have taken their own lives, due in large part to the pressure of being ABDL. It's an extremely difficult thing to come to terms with for many people.

Most of us find ways to cope. Telling people about your interest in diapers is a coping strategy that might work well for some folks, and it might not work for others.