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Thread: Parallels with LGBT

  1. #1

    Default Parallels with LGBT

    For starters, I'll post this link.

    Issues in the ABDL Community

    This kid clearly has some very strong opinions about us and where we do and should fit into society at large. In case you're not interested in watching a 15 minute rant, I'll paraphrase. He says that we as ABDLs are a gender and sexual minority just like the LGBT community and we should fight for our right to be accepted.

    Personally, I don't agree. Being an abDL is a part of myself that I've only recently come to embrace and accept. On top of that, I don't really want to involve many other people in it and be "out". I told my wife. That's it. She deserves to know and it made me feel closer and more trusting.

    Beyond that, we're different and most people aren't going to be too accepting. Some people will be horrified (I think they shouldn't), and some (most) people will think it's ridiculous and laughable, but won't want to be included in it. I think that's their right.

    I think we have more in common with BDSM and other such fetishes than we do with entire sexual orientations. Sure, being ABDL is part of our sexual identity, but I personally don't feel like it dominates my whole identity. There's a whole other side of me that loves sex with women and diapers don't even cross my mind in that moment. There's just a part of me both sexual and not that also enjoys diapers.

    For me, it's too much work to be out. There's too much explaining and probably far more ridicule (not hateful) than it would ever be worth to have a whole room full of ABDL supplies that I'm perfectly ok with other people seeing.

    I'm an abDL, and I'm ok with it, but I'm not ok with it compromising my other identities.

  2. #2

    Default

    I think the most disturbing concept there is the idea that LGBT people need to fight for acceptance, as if they need to present the case that they're not some sort of aberration or inconvenience to society.

    Anyway, I personally don't see ABDL as a sexual orientation. For many of us it's non-sexual, and for those of us who practice ABDL for sexual pleasure, it's more of a kink than an orientation. For example, I'd say I am heterosexual, but I enjoy ABDL. In the same way, I wouldn't say that my Lipstick fetish made me Lipsticksexual. It makes me a (predominantly) heterosexual man with a Lipstick fetish.

    As for how much we have in common with BDSM, that depends largely on what each individual within the ABDL community does in their little space. If there's erotic humiliation, forced diapering, spankings etc., you're essentially using BDSM as a framework, and ABDL as the context for that framework to exist in. I'd say the nurturing and gentle elements of ABDL are aesthetically as far from hardcore bondage and sadism as you can get, but I accept that the Big/Little power dynamic will always have some level of correlation to the Dominant/Submissive relationship which is synonymous with BDSM.

  3. #3

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    Ohhhh... This guy. I recognized him from the avatar image he used, he uses it on FetLife. He's been banned from most of the FetLife ABDL groups for proclaiming he has a condition called 'Age Dysphoria' and generally trying to say that ABDLs are oppressed just like queer people. Yeah... He's sorta loathed.

    Actually I think he's a user here as well.

    He also needs to learn about the rule of thirds and sit the @#$% up when on camera. :/

  4. #4

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    The concept of ABDL being a sexual preference or being in any way discriminated against as the LGBT community has is laughable at best.

    It's not an oreintation like being gay or straight, it's a preference like finding whips or feet exciting.

    I don't see the BDSM community out there marching through the streets leather clad and demanding their right to wear whips and chains in the workplace so It makes even less sense to me for the ABDL community to parade through town square screaming "were here, we wear diapers, we like toys, get over it!"

    It seems silly.

    BUT! But, soft education and fair representation of the community via YouTube maybe would be okay. Something we could show to spouses or parents if our secret comes out that shows us for what we really are.

  5. #5

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    There's a sticky at the top of one of larger ABDL Fetlife groups titled "YOUR KINK IS NOT LIKE BEING GAY". Its point: ABDLs are not actively persecuted for being ABDL nor is there any systematic discrimination against ABDLs.

    This changes the calculus quite a bit. On one hand, it means that the cost-benefit is shifted a great deal - there's a lot for individuals to lose and really not a lot to gain by being out and open right now.

    On the other, it means there's a direction to go as a community other than up. Negative attention has meaning, and I think people can create it by taking ABDL into public social contexts where it's inappropriate. I'm reminded of a Big Little Podcast episode where a lot of time was spent talking about the "social contract" and the fact that, yes, there are expectations and boundaries depending on the time and place. Those who choose to try to represent the community and move the needle of public opinion don't deserve praise just for trying, but rather have to do a good job to be more helpful than harmful.




    If there's one point where I really agree with video, it's that ABDLs don't do themselves any favors by immediately comparing ourselves to a bunch of bad things like drug use and saying, "Hey, at least it's not that!" When defending ourselves, we are better-served by an affirmative defense.

  6. #6

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    I was watching a TV show named POV (Point Of View)... where asexuals where essentially campaigning in a... gay or LGBTQ parade... with mixed reactions. Asexual, is very much tied to sexuality... in a manner of speaking except, that it nears the antithesis of being sexually motivated...

    I've experienced all three aspects of Hetero, Bi, and homo... to varying degrees myself... and more DL, than AB... yet "little" as perhaps a subset of AB... and now for a few years... asexual, with my own particular personal twist on it...

    There are both similarities, and differences of AB/DL with GLBTQ AND BDSM... yet, it's not one or the other... mostly...

    The bottom line to me... is acceptance of less populous proclivities... whether you are ... whatever you are, and/or aren't... we are not the 'norm', or significant in an electoral measure... GBLTQ, as a whole though, has gained a significant amount collectively... yet, I would argue that Bi, and trans are significantly more shorthanded and, may only be gaining independent support of notable degree more recently... and questioning... is just that... they borrow some recognition from the larger collective yet, as questioning... we're not going to see Congress grappling with those in question... to legally marry for instance...

    So called, rights, and separately to a degree... recognition, especially acceptance... related and yet distinctive, at least in nuance...

    There are parallels, no doubt... though not really equal situations at all.

    There doesn't appear to be a public need, to publicly accept an AB/DL sort... there is a personal need... to be accepted though and, more importantly perhaps... to know where one stands... we are pack-animals and, that seems to require tangible hierarchy of need over prestige or, popular recognition...

    In conclusion... I think that we some how need more room in society, to be odd, or different... whatever... and still be accepted... As long as we're otherwise being acceptable...

    I don't see having AB/DL parades for example... in retrospect though... I wonder if we ever need GLBTQ motions... why not something like different from the greater populace... but good, and deserving... everyone basically has the need to belong, whether they desire it or not....

    Campaign for the diversity of human nature... in and outside of social constructs... I think the aversion has less to do with individual proclivities, as much as the fear of what one doesn't understand... we can't all understand everything but, we can understand diversity...

    Even within the AB... and separately DL populations... there is much diversity in each category, let alone both... for some it is a sort of orientation, for others... just another style of whips, and feet... for others yet, it's simply a comfort... whether a destressor, or protection... or simple comfort... or an alternate perspective... a role. Some fantasy, others conditioning, others a reaction... who knows... embrace the individual, and the collective... it's not either or... it's both, and none...

    <end>
    -Marka

  7. #7

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    I don't have a need to out myself just because I enjoy wearing diapers, etc. It just doesn't make sense for me. If someone feels they have a need for such, then that's their prerogative, but don't expect me to join the lemming line and jump. This dog don't jump. I bark and bite sometimes.

  8. #8

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    I'll just start by saying I haven't actually watched the video, as it sounds a little unbearable.


    Quote Originally Posted by Penny View Post
    The concept of ABDL being a sexual preference or being in any way discriminated against as the LGBT community has is laughable at best.

    It's not an oreintation like being gay or straight, it's a preference like finding whips or feet exciting.

    I don't see the BDSM community out there marching through the streets leather clad and demanding their right to wear whips and chains in the workplace so It makes even less sense to me for the ABDL community to parade through town square screaming "were here, we wear diapers, we like toys, get over it!"

    It seems silly.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fruitkitty View Post
    There's a sticky at the top of one of larger ABDL Fetlife groups titled "YOUR KINK IS NOT LIKE BEING GAY". Its point: ABDLs are not actively persecuted for being ABDL nor is there any systematic discrimination against ABDLs.
    I just want to play Devil's advocate a little bit here. A few years ago I would have completely agreed with this sentiment. ABs (or BDSMers) have private interests and so can easily avoid discrimination by keeping their interests where they belong: the bedroom! The only way we can face prejudice is if we reveal ourselves to the public, but why would we do this?

    But the fact is ABs (and BDSMers) are now discriminated against in law in the UK. Ageplay pornography produced in the UK can not be sold online any more. What's more alarming about this is that it is not an old fashion law that has yet to be reformed, but it is a new law that has been introduced!
    And it's been a worrying trend. Rape porn (as in fictional porn where everybody consents) was banned. Now ageplay and humiliation porn is somewhat banned. Female ejaculation, spankings...
    The problem with these laws is that they are easy to introduce, but few politicians are going to want to be the ones to repeal them.

    When the new laws came in there was a protest in London of kinksters... who did think "we should fight for our right to be accepted." I think if the state wants to start declaring what pornography* is/is not allowed to be consumed in our homes we need to start worrying. We shouldn't need to fight to be accepted, but we may have no choice.

    *

  9. #9

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    I'm somewhat in agreement with the bulk of everyone who's posted so far, that being an ABDL is not on the same level as being gay.

    I think, though, there's a bit more nuance in all of this than most people, including apparently the poster of the video I'm not going to bother sitting through because I (by just this much!) have better things to do, are recognizing.

    I think some of what this boils down to are questions of semantics. What do we call an orientation? What do we call a fetish? What do we call a kink? I am fully aware that there are, in fact, nice clean definitions for these terms. I'm also fully aware, though, that things are rarely as nice and clean in real life as they are on paper. So, perhaps there are one or two beautiful unique snowflakes out there that are only attracted to and aroused by various facets of the ABDL realm. I've wondered how many asexual people in fact just haven't found the right combination of things that work for them and/or misattribute particularly interesting combinations of things. What I mean by all of this is that while we have these nice clean definitions, there might be a small population of beautiful unique snowflakes that either have significant overlap between categories or are so unique they fall into categories the rest of us freaks do not.

    The particular bit of nuance that I think is being glossed over presently, though, is a broader question of sexual freedom and expression. We've arrived at a point where the L, G, and B parts of the LGBT community are mostly free to be L, G, or B. We've done this by broadly conforming to the existing social structures of the straight majority. So, we're free to be gay, at least as long as we do it with only one partner at a time, commit to the same legal architecture as straight couples, and don't make too big a spectacle of ourselves. How many people still fixate on leather daddies or scantily-dressed twinks and drag queens during Pride parades! Hell, even within the gay community, there are invariably some that suggest that we'd be so much further along if the drag queens and the leather daddies and the rest of the "freaks" would just go away or straight up and fly right (I call them the suit-and-tie gays).

    I disagree. I've always said that if we're not all equal, then none of us are. If we're not all free to be ourselves, then none of us are. So, while it's great that Mr. Aurkarm and I can now marry in several countries and 30-odd states in our own country (not the one we're in, though), we're all (royal We) deluding ourselves if we think we're nearly there. We as a society still have largely Puritanical Victorian ideas about sex and expression.

    And that's the bigger point behind videos like this one. So, while some of us here might scoff at the idea that ABDL is on the same level as LGBT, we're missing the fact that this person is seeking the freedom to express himself as he sees fit. We're missing the fact that society still has irrational hangups about sex and expression, and those hangups are getting stronger again. Charlie is absolutely correct to point out that society is now regressing in terms of freedom of expression. I mean, we're back to banning kinds of porn now? We're back to stigmatizing sexual activity now?

    We need to see the nuance, not just scoff at the idea on its face.

  10. #10

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    Good point, Charlie. New laws like these legitimize the perception that ABDLs are in the same category with dangerous and/or undesirable sexual deviates. This is just going to make acceptance of harmless deviations that much harder.

    We are not seeking the same level of social recognition that gays sought. What I think we want is a more "neutral" acceptance for those times when our private activities inadvertently become public knowledge.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Quote Originally Posted by GoldDragonAurkarm View Post
    And that's the bigger point behind videos like this one. So, while some of us here might scoff at the idea that ABDL is on the same level as LGBT, we're missing the fact that this person is seeking the freedom to express himself as he sees fit. We're missing the fact that society still has irrational hangups about sex and expression, and those hangups are getting stronger again. Charlie is absolutely correct to point out that society is now regressing in terms of freedom of expression. I mean, we're back to banning kinds of porn now? We're back to stigmatizing sexual activity now?
    I don't think we are missing the fact he is seeking the freedom to express himself. I think we are deliberately trying to distance ourselves from the idea that this is what we want. Most of us are content to express our sexuality in private and we really don't want the social backlash that is sure to come if we "express" our kinks publicly. Freedom of public expression, in my opinion, should remain a separate issue.

    For gays the issue is a little different. A greater acceptance of homosexuality requires a level of acceptance of freedom of expression for homosexual couples in public similar to the freedoms heterosexual couples have.

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