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Thread: Need to talk. Similar experience?

  1. #1

    Default Need to talk. Similar experience?

    I'm not really sure If I'm posting this in the right place. Feel free to move it, if it is more appropriate somewhere else. I have never spoken with anyone about this. For years I thought it would go away; it has not. I would not say that I experience gender dysphoria. I was born a boy, and I'm fine with that. The problem is that since the age of 12 or 13, I have experienced a strong dislike and a desire to get rid of my male genitals. I can remember even from childhood when I came across references to eunuchs and castration in literature, I found them oddly terrifying and intriguing at the same time. I thought about them a lot. When I first experienced these feelings, I found them very troubling, but I assumed they were just a passing phase. The feelings tend to wax and wane, but they have never gone away. If anything, they have grown stronger over time. I wonder if any one else has experienced similar feelings?

    I feel I should provide some disclaimer. Even though I feel no desire to fully transition and live as female, I do believe that the strict rules our society has about what is appropriate based on gender are bullshit. I also fully support those who feel the need to transition from one gender to another. I see nothing wrong with it. That is just not what I desire. I do intend to seek professional counseling in the near future. But due to money and time restrictions, this is not easy to do. I feel that being able to talk through my feelings may help me organize my thoughts some before talking to a professional.

    Of course with these kinds of desires, I have done a fair amount of internet research on what it would take to have my genitals removed. This is not something I would ever consider having done in any way other than by trained professionals in a sterile setting. I realize it may never happen, but in my innermost thoughts I very much have a desire to have genital reassignment surgery. My sexual attraction is primarly toward men, and I very much like the idea of having the option to have vaginal sex. Ideally I would take supplemental testosterone, to avoid health problems associated with low hormone levels. From what I have found, in the western world, through legal channels, it is not possible to undergo genital reassignment without also taking female hormones and legally transitioning to female. I find it frustrating, that continuing to live as male after undergoing genital reassignment may never be an option.

    I feel like I often go through periods where my desire to not have male genitals seems to consume my thoughts, and prevent me from getting important things done. I wish that were not the case. I honestly wish that I didn't experience these feelings. I feel like it is selfish of me to have these desires. I feel that I should just be happy with what nature gave me; that I shouldn't take such physical risk and spend so much money just to change my body. I don't believe I am a female trapped in a male body. I really believe that there are more than two genders. I think I may be somewhere between male and female. I wish I could be male with female genitals. I also wish that I could just learn to be happy with the body I was born with. So far I have not figured that out. Maybe I will someday. I realize there are lots of conflicting thoughts here. That is just how things are in my brain.

    Just to further complicate things; as far as I know, I have never been able to experience an orgasm. I do have wet dreams, so I know things work ok physically. Of course I have done plenty of research and experimentation in ways to overcome this. This condition is known as Anorgasmia and from all the literature I have been able to find, seems to occur almost exclusively in females. I feel that as a next step, I should see a sex therapist. Unfortunately I have very limited health insurance, and I feel rather daunted by the prospect of going to a sex therapist. If anyone can recommend any resources, I would appreciate it. (I'm located on the front range in Colorado.)

    If anyone has advice or experiences related to any of the stuff here it would be much appreciated.

  2. #2

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    Right off, bean baby

    I have had many similar thoughts as yours in the past... except, not a particularly consuming desire to alter my genitals... (much)

    You pose a number of good thoughts, and questions... and, I'd like to get to some or as many of them soon... I'll reread and contemplate further, while I reprieve from a headache...

    Until then,
    Peace!
    -Marka

  3. #3

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    I feel for your situation, I do.

    I just.. I don't know how feasible the situation you describe it. Sexual reassignment surgery really is something only offered by the trained professionals you describe to people who experience intense feelings of gender dsyphoria. They really don't let other people just do it... it's not something you can walk in somewhere with thousands of dollars and just demand is done. There is entire stages to getting the approval for it, you having to prove to a psychiatrist you have a severe enough case of gender dsyphoria to warrant.. many times having to prove that you are already willing to live as the gender you are transitioning to before even getting it. I understand that your feelings are unique, but the procedure has a pretty strict method of being handled that most transsexuals have to deal with.

    I also honestly, honestly believe that this isn't the best solution for you. This surgery really not "designed" to give men the experience your talking about. It's designed to help allieviate powerful feelings of gender dysphoira in people and it does that well, but.. I mean.. I just don't think it's going to give you what you are looking for specifically. There is pretty much a big reasons that there is such strict hoops that people have to jump through to get the okay for one of these things, primarily because so many people who did for purely sexual reasons were unsatisfied with the results and by that point it was too late, they had mutilated themselves.

    Again, I feel for you. I don't like being the bearer of bad news. I'm so sorry that you feel uncomfortable with your body. My main advice to you is to seek help in dealing with these issues, someone professional that you can trust who can help find the best answer for you and help you possibly explore the reasons you feel so uncomfortable with your body as it is. Maybe talk to him or her about your desires, and plot out what is you should do.

    Good luck bean! I'm rooting for you!

  4. #4

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    There are also other psychological anomalies where people seek amputation, typically of the limbs. Since you want to remain male in terms of gender identification, there may be something else going on. You say you are seeking therapy and I think that is indicated in this situation. You have a lot to talk about and work out in your mind. It's not something I identify to, so I really don't have much advise other than seeking professional help. You may be in some sort of psychological transition, where you may eventually feel that you are not happy with being male. I think the passage of time my help along with time spent with a professional therapist.

  5. #5

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    Thank you everyone, for the thoughtful and kind responses. It really helped me a lot just to vocalize some of my feelings even if it was in a virtual setting. I feel like I can't express how much your kindness brought some sense of peace to my heart. I realize the thoughts I shared were pretty raw, so thank you for bearing with me! I just feel like there has always been a lot going on in my head, that I have never been able to talk to anyone about. I'm working on changing that, but it seems to be a slow and difficult process. I'm very fortunate in many ways, I have gotten to travel and see and experience, so many awesome and beautiful places and people. I really can't think of a time, that my life has ever been boring. Unfortunately along with that, my life has been consistently chaotic, and often very painful. I feel like there is a lot of stuff inside me, that I have been avoiding dealing with or thinking about for years. I am definitely reaching a point where I need to work to change that, if I want to lead a relatively healthy and happy life. It is easier said than done, but I intend to make it a priority, to find a mental health professional who can help me work through the stuff swimming in my brain. I was pretty nervous about writing what I did in the post yesterday. I feel much more anxious about discussing this kind of thing, with someone in person. I feel like I have kept so many thoughts pent up for so long, that I would really struggle to trust someone enough, to share with them. But I guess I will have to get over that if I want things to get better. Thank you again.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by bean View Post
    Thank you everyone, for the thoughtful and kind responses. It really helped me a lot just to vocalize some of my feelings even if it was in a virtual setting. I feel like I can't express how much your kindness brought some sense of peace to my heart.[...] I was pretty nervous about writing what I did in the post yesterday. I feel much more anxious about discussing this kind of thing, with someone in person. I feel like I have kept so many thoughts pent up for so long, that I would really struggle to trust someone enough, to share with them. But I guess I will have to get over that if I want things to get better. Thank you again.
    bean,

    Your personal experience is unique (and uniquely yours), yet your general issues are not as alien as you might think...

    If I didn't know any better, I'd say that you are on the right track... and, I hope that you'll extend the courtesy of patience and compassion towards yourself as well...

    Yes, working through some of these things can be quite slow (at least seeming), and difficult too... I'll offer, that the rewards in persevering with this... are rather extraordinary...

    Speak what you can in the open forums... it helps us to work together, and give different perspectives for you to ponder... and it helps others, who may be too afraid, or bashful to speak their own concerns...

    Having said that though... pretty much any of us would welcome a PM from you as well!

    You seem a bright and intelligent sort, and a great part of ADISC... please accept my thanks to you as well...

    Warmest regards,
    -Marka

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by bean View Post
    [...] I realize there are lots of conflicting thoughts here. That is just how things are in my brain.

    Just to further complicate things; as far as I know, I have never been able to experience an orgasm. I do have wet dreams, so I know things work ok physically. Of course I have done plenty of research and experimentation in ways to overcome this. This condition is known as Anorgasmia and from all the literature I have been able to find, seems to occur almost exclusively in females. I feel that as a next step, I should see a sex therapist. Unfortunately I have very limited health insurance, and I feel rather daunted by the prospect of going to a sex therapist. If anyone can recommend any resources, I would appreciate it. (I'm located on the front range in Colorado.)

    If anyone has advice or experiences related to any of the stuff here it would be much appreciated.


    So, following up on this a bit...

    It appears that this is all rather in the broad range of gender dysphoria... which you may have read up on already...

    I wonder, much as with the social binary-gender instructions... if gender dysphoria (a.k.a. Gender Identity Disorder)... might have some etiology in the negative constructs of each respective gender-norm... (i.e. The penis as a weapon, or tool *pardon the pun*, of abuse, negative connotations of power and dominance, intrusion, etc...) ...and, even the perceived (and real) extraordinary responsibility of the male as sire, ruler, leader, protector, and provider, etc...

    My father, for instance... as my primary model, or representation of the male role... was quite abusive, and destructive, and just generally violent... and other male peer models throughout my growing up, and beyond; also reinforced to me the negative, hostile, and biased actions and demeanor... (i.e. bullying, rejection, overtly rough, coarse, and rigid... excluding, and often attacking of more compassionate, and demure tendencies. This was something to take advantage of towards females; and was something to eradicate in other males, or at least ostracize them... Further reinforced by the general female population's prejudice, that may tie into as much instinctual-reproductive selections, for a protector/provider/mate that would fit both presumed instinctual, and societal demands.

    Other aspects may stem from tendencies to rebuke further social-constructs of the female... and combined with the general notions of gender-roles as unnecessary... if not damaging, or repressive, and with consideration that this is largely a farce, or fabrication to be reconciled to the trash-bin...

    There's much more to consider... I'm even thinking that there may be a similar conditioning? to some of the AB/DL aspects... and think that it may be no coincidence that age and gender bending... as an evasion, or retreat from the adult roles, and responsibilities, as more similarly related to the evasion, or retreat from the gender roles, and responsibilities alone...

    Maybe this isn't news to anyone, or maybe I've failed to articulate anything useful... I didn't get much sleep last-night, so I may look at this later, and wonder what the hell I'm talking about too...

    As one of my distractions last evening... it may not directly relate here, yet I found this 45-minute video dissertation of sorts... to be very interesting... I don't necessarily endorse this, and I realize it's not a trivial time commitment... However, I hope several of you will watch it... if nothing else, it may prove subject matter quite suitable for another thread/discussion...

    For now, my friends,
    -Marka

  8. #8

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    Marka, Thanks for posting here again. I think your post brought up some very interesting and relevant thoughts and ideas. I will write more of a response later, when I am less sleep deprived. I watched the video that you shared.

    I'm really fascinated by the use of evolutionary biology and neurology as lenses through which to study human behavior and social interactions. I have read a few books that deal with the topic at an introductory level. I agree that we could start another thread, to discuss some of the points touched in that video.

    Random observation: I have not yet checked to see where the speaker in the video grew up. I wonder though, because even though his accent mostly sounded generically North American, his pronunciation of a few words here and there, made me suspect strongly that he is from Australia or New Zealand. Not particularly important, just interesting... Anyway, I definitely think the video is worth a watch.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by bean View Post
    Marka, Thanks for posting here again. I think your post brought up some very interesting and relevant thoughts and ideas. I will write more of a response later, when I am less sleep deprived. I watched the video that you shared.

    I'm really fascinated by the use of evolutionary biology and neurology as lenses through which to study human behavior and social interactions. I have read a few books that deal with the topic at an introductory level. I agree that we could start another thread, to discuss some of the points touched in that video.

    Random observation: I have not yet checked to see where the speaker in the video grew up. I wonder though, because even though his accent mostly sounded generically North American, his pronunciation of a few words here and there, made me suspect strongly that he is from Australia or New Zealand. Not particularly important, just interesting... Anyway, I definitely think the video is worth a watch.
    Cool beans, bean!

    I look forward to more exploration in this too...

    And, I need to sleep as well...

    Goodnight!
    -Marka

  10. #10

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    I just finished writing a very in depth response to this post using lots of quotes. Somehow I manged to lose the whole thing. Oh well, round two.

    I have read a fair amount on gender dysphoria. I would agree that the feelings I am experiencing could be classified as dysphoria of some kind. Perhaps I was mistaken, but I avoided calling my feelings dysphoria in the initial post because I think people tend to jump to a lot of conclusions upon hearing that word. It may be strange, but I would say that my dysphoric feelings don't extend to my whole body and gender identity so much as to one specific part of my body. I'm not claiming that it makes sense. I'm just saying that is what I experience. I guess I should be hopeful that working with a therapist may help me overcome that feeling. If that works, it is certainly more practical than trying to make any physical alterations in the future.

    I have a pretty strong hatred for the aggression, domineering and abusiveness, that make up the dark side of masculinity. I have also had some fantastic examples of kind and caring male role models in my life, lots of family members, including my Dad, who I have always been very close with. Unfortunately I also had an extremely negative, interaction with a male role model beginning early in life. When I was 3 my Mom left my Dad for another man who was very, smart, driven and successful, but who also had a very dark side of aggression, hatred, fear, substance abuse and physical and emotional abusiveness. I'm sure at the time she had no idea what she was getting into, but over the next 15 years, it became very apparent. My earliest memories of interacting with him are ones of abuse and mutual dislike and distrust. That relationship dynamic persisted and grew worse, until my Mom finally ended the marriage shortly after I turned 18. Since that day, I have had zero contact with him, which is great. Unfortunately I am still coping with the consequences of years of his abuse that my Mom and I endured.

    I feel bad to judge him too harshly, because I know for a fact, that his childhood was much more abusive and traumatic than my own. He was also a combat veteran who served in Afghanistan in 2005. Nevertheless he was unwilling to make the necessary changes in his life, to bring healing, and avoid perpetuating a cycle of abuse. That is something I am striving to do differently in my own life. That is definitely one of the aspects of my life that I know I need to spend time working on with a therapist. I spent years burying my emotions. A couple of years ago, I came to a breaking point, and I very much wanted to die. I was never going to do anything, because I couldn't do that to my loved ones, but I was very unhappy for a long time. Thankfully things are way better now, but I know I need to be proactive, in working on my mental health. To anyone reading this: Don't bury your emotions. It is very dangerous.

    Independently of any discomfort I may feel with certain parts of my anatomy, I can say that I am academically very much in favor of continuing to break down the current tightly defined binary gender roles. I certainly acknowledge that there are biological differences among sexes, and therefore some inherent strengths and weaknesses. And yet there is so much variation in genetics and formative experience among people of all sexes and genders. There is room in society for much more than two tightly defined roles. I don't think male and female will ever go away, nor should they. For many people one or the other probably works great. I just say we have a need to allow for other expressions of gender as well. I expect and hope to see great change in this area during my life time.

    Interestingly, as long as I have been wearing diapers and regressing, I have seen it as a fantastic escape from the stresses I feel in trying to conform to the current norms of society. I have to admit that I have also always been rather fond of the way a diaper obscures the privates of the wearer; making it less obvious what kind of genitalia they happen to posses

    Marka, I hope you caught up on your rest, though I don't think your sleep deprivation did anything to prevent you from bringing up some good points.

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