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Thread: There's A Baby in My Bed Response

  1. #1

    Default There's A Baby in My Bed Response

    I don't know if any of you all have read this book but I was quite disturbed by it....And I am Cis....

    I remeber something about being able to mastrubate away thier gender/age identity....

    Some lovely quotes from the book:

    "Don't assume that your little one's gender is the same as their physical gender."
    WTF is a physical gender?

    "Gender is quite obvious very early in an infant's life."
    No, gender is a sociall constructed concept. Furthermore it is s ubjective experieince of self that only the individual truly knows. Gender cannot be "seen". This is as bogus and insulting as "gaydar".

    "Fortunately your little one's gender will be completely obvious"
    Again someone else's gender is not for you to decide. WTF...

    "If you watch your baby you will obviously see their gender."
    Again.....

    "Gender confusion is normally just in males"
    WTF? Totally unsubstantiated B.S.

    "Transexuals do want to change gender"
    No!!!! They may elect to modify some external sex characteristics to match their gender identity.... They don't want to change thier gender identity.... That is kind of the whole point.

    "Sexuality and sexual drives will definantely casue your little one to reveal their gender."
    Sexual Orientation is NOT related to gender identity!!!!! WTF?



    Am I the only one who just felt their IQ drop by 100 points?
    My mother gifted this book to my Dad to try and make him understand me .....
    Oh and if you are wondering where this came from:
    https://www.adisc.org/forum/showthre...tand-my-fetish

  2. #2

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    I strongly debated posting this rant, and I'm still not sure it's a good idea, but I feel it needs to be said.

    The concept of gender being anything more than whether you have a penis or a vagina is a (relatively) new concept, and the progressive views on gender seem to be in a constant state of flux. At the very least, the theory of gender as a purely social concept is far from accepted fact and hotly contested. Stating it matter-of-factly as you have is a big part of what strongly disincentivizes folks like me to try and understand these viewpoints.

    You have to meet the world half way. Presenting new ideas as absolute irrefutable fact and becoming aggressively upset when someone doesn't know what this weeks preferred terminology is just makes otherwise open minded folks say "screw that shit" and ignore the whole mess.

    You can't have open and useful discussions, the kind needed to sway public opinion, by creating a hostile environment where people feel if they use the wrong phrase or say anything that's not consistent with someones current viewpoint they'll be run out of town.

    I get that as someone who has lived life the old fashion way (born with a penis, felt like a guy, live happily as one) I'll never really understand these gender issues, but if I felt like it was a discussion and not a militant rant I'd at least try.

  3. #3

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    For fear of being blasted there may be one bad part in a book it dosent make the hole book bad.
    First of all gender goes to the soul not what form your wearing now .
    For some souls like being woman some like being male or even a mix of the two.
    Now comes the part that could get me hated .
    Most life times I'm a woman but some times I need to be male to balance my soul so every so offen Im a guy this is one of those times .
    Now for some rember they like being a woman so you feel your the wrong gender or the other way around your a male in the wrong body.
    Yup Have been kind of a sissy by mens stander's not a mans man .
    Alway get a long better with woman for I have been one most times.

    We are all growing learning to be in this form.
    But our souls come form the same stuff .
    We are famley .
    The problem is while we are here we forget that.
    Me you can be what ever you wish to be or are with my blessing .
    I love clothing with color fun stuff but they dont make that for guys in this time around.
    Take care may we find in our selves what we are looking for.

  4. #4

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    The author of the book signed up here some time back, and created a bit of a stir with her opinions on gender. I'm not surprised to see her book has similar issues.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverSmall View Post
    I don't know if any of you all have read this book but I was quite disturbed by it....And I am Cis....

    I remeber something about being able to mastrubate away thier gender/age identity....

    Some lovely quotes from the book:

    "Don't assume that your little one's gender is the same as their physical gender."
    WTF is a physical gender?

    "Gender is quite obvious very early in an infant's life."
    No, gender is a sociall constructed concept. Furthermore it is s ubjective experieince of self that only the individual truly knows. Gender cannot be "seen". This is as bogus and insulting as "gaydar".

    "Fortunately your little one's gender will be completely obvious"
    Again someone else's gender is not for you to decide. WTF...

    "If you watch your baby you will obviously see their gender."
    Again.....

    "Gender confusion is normally just in males"
    WTF? Totally unsubstantiated B.S.

    "Transexuals do want to change gender"
    No!!!! They may elect to modify some external sex characteristics to match their gender identity.... They don't want to change thier gender identity.... That is kind of the whole point.

    "Sexuality and sexual drives will definantely casue your little one to reveal their gender."
    Sexual Orientation is NOT related to gender identity!!!!! WTF?



    Am I the only one who just felt their IQ drop by 100 points?
    My mother gifted this book to my Dad to try and make him understand me .....
    Oh and if you are wondering where this came from:
    https://www.adisc.org/forum/showthre...tand-my-fetish
    You seem to have confused "physical gender" with gender identity. Physical gender is determined by the presence of a Y chromosome. Other than a slight disagreement over terminology, I agree with you.

  6. #6

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    I've always heard it simply put, that sex is either male or female, but gender deals more how one feels toward their sexuality. One could be male yet feel more feminine. If you really want to get confused, read the book, "The Middle Sex". It's about a hermaphrodite born with visible female genitalia, but lurking in the depths is a penis and testicles. The book won the Pulitzer prize and is well worth reading. It makes one realize that gender can be fluid where as physical sexuality is fixed, unless one has both. Let the confusion begin.

  7. #7

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    I haven't actually read the book in it's entirety besides maybe one or two quips posted by others. But from the sounds of things the authors use of terminology is lacking in precision and current narrative. From that old thread, it would seem that book has little if anything to offer anyway. I might buy it just to review it as I rather dislike bad resources out there if it happens to actually be one.



    Quote Originally Posted by BoundCoder
    I get that as someone who has lived life the old fashion way (born with a penis, felt like a guy, live happily as one) I'll never really understand these gender issues, but if I felt like it was a discussion and not a militant rant I'd at least try.
    This is not a jab at you personally, but I see that sort of line of thinking in enough places of discussion on hard to grasp concepts (such as gender) and it's not the right attitude to have if you are actually interested in understanding it. Given the amount of books, current research, and scholarly articles online at your fingertips, it surprises me your inquiry or effort to look into it deeper are suddenly stopped by another's passion. Sort of like the guys who refuse to understand feminist theory unless some of the ladies in the class "tone it down a notch." And I've heard that one honestly.

    Gender is actually a very hard topic. Even for me to a fir degree. But a lot of what ForeverSmall has been ranting about has existed for over 20 years in many sociology and gender studies books. It's the public and some of the scientific community that unfortunately re-enforces quite a bit.

    So if you are interested, start here. I post this around a crap ton. http://web.stanford.edu/~eckert/PDF/Chap1.pdf

  8. #8

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    I think it's specifically the fact that I (and probably a large portion of the population) am not interested in it that it is necessary for those seeking awareness and acceptance of their community to make their viewpoints more accessible.

    This does indeed come up in a lot of communities. People don't tend to give things serious thought unless they are causing problems. To that end, those not afflicted with gender issues tend not to think much about gender. As this kinda stuff makes the news occasionally, the general public is at least vaguely aware of gender issues as a thing, but your average "guy on the street" like me probably hasn't thought much more about their gender than "I have a penis, hence I'm a guy, and I'm happy about that". Contrast that to the gender issues community, which exists almost as a separate world where a great deal of thought has been put into the concept of gender and a massive amount of terminology and preferred phrasing has developed, and there exists a great deal of sensitivity around very specific terminology that those outside this world casually throw around without a thought.

    To people within a community built around some issue, that issue may seem the biggest and most important thing in the universe, but to those outside, it's just one of many social issues that don't impact ones daily life. People arn't going to spend a great deal of effort learning about something that doesn't really effect them. Some people however are willing to learn the bullet points, and this is where that "meet the world half way" stuff comes in. If the attitude is "full understanding, and anything less will result in hostility", people won't even bother going that far, and the status quo will remain.

    Ultimately being willing to discuss issues and accept that people arn't going to get the terminology right and you are going to have to dumb things down might progress acceptance. A wall of hostility will just encourage people to draw a circle around the issue and avoid it all together.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoundCoder
    I think it's specifically the fact that I (and probably a large portion of the population) am not interested in it that it is necessary for those seeking awareness and acceptance of their community to make their viewpoints more accessible.
    To be honest, they already have. Where? Well, digitally the 100 or so professional advocacy websites that use plain jane language and a friendly atmosphere. Have you ever been to say an LGBT seminar that discussed gender? Clearly you haven't as it's incredibly accessible for anyone in the public to come in and listen. You just need to have a little common courtesy that's all. Not incredibly hard besides for the fundamentalist what wants to shout "fags go to hell" at their experiences...or instead want to make it about them.

    I will be fair and say that a very wrong approach to get people to listen are nonstarter "check your privilege" statements and nothing else, but even when they are not (and the majority doesn't besides teeny bopper bloggers on the internet) they are STILL not listened too. So it's not really that at all.

    You see, it can be incredibly accessible, but some people don't want to be challenged on their status in society. It took a transgender woman to start discussing her previous life as a man, talking in a man's voice, to get two men in a women's studies group to actually listen and conside her experiences. And that was after consistently ignoring any comment she made. Those two were silent the rest of the class and ended up dropping it. I suppose to stubborn to refuse to actually learn something.



    This does indeed come up in a lot of communities. People don't tend to give things serious thought unless they are causing problems. To that end, those not afflicted with gender issues tend not to think much about gender. As this kinda stuff makes the news occasionally, the general public is at least vaguely aware of gender issues as a thing, but your average "guy on the street" like me probably hasn't thought much more about their gender than "I have a penis, hence I'm a guy, and I'm happy about that". Contrast that to the gender issues community, which exists almost as a separate world where a great deal of thought has been put into the concept of gender and a massive amount of terminology and preferred phrasing has developed, and there exists a great deal of sensitivity around very specific terminology that those outside this world casually throw around without a thought.
    You are correct, visibility is an issue. And yes, it takes until a person is confronted by it to actually think about it and perhaps change their behavior for the better. And if they don't...is it honestly the responsibility of an entire group to get this one person to..when the rest do? Given all the information out there? That's a hard case to make.



    Ultimately being willing to discuss issues and accept that people arn't going to get the terminology right and you are going to have to dumb things down might progress acceptance. A wall of hostility will just encourage people to draw a circle around the issue and avoid it all together.
    I must ask, how prevalent is this wall of hostility being created by activists? I'm somewhat in disbelief it is a far majority as progress is continuing to be made inspite of the stern lectures and the occasional "jerk" being lobbed at someone. The reactionary movements against women and trans people are not born out of them being in any way "hostile" but to preserve their status and change the narrative and paint them as crazy angry people.

    And really, it boils down to some irrational people dismissing an important topic all because someone got a little emotional about the subject. And this sounds incredibly crass, but I'd like to think those kinds of people are a minority and are not worth my time trying to convince. If all it takes for them to dismiss me is that, then I really don't need them on my side to enact change. There are others that can.

    It's sort of the classic, tone policing/derailing an issue cause of anger. http://www.derailingfordummies.com/derail-using-anger/

    I understand where you are coming from on this, it's a perfectly reasonable assessment, but it is also the wrong assessment given what I just said. If you know what I mean.
    Last edited by Geno; 30-Aug-2014 at 15:03.

  10. #10

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    I'll be honest I don't see a problem with any of these statements.

    "Don't assume your little's one's gender is as same as their physical gender." totally agree that would not be a good assumption to make.

    "An infant's gender is very apparent early on in life" While I think this may be taken out of context I still agree because every kid I've ever seen has been dressed with stereotypes of their gender so yes the gender you are supposed to have is imposed on you very early in life.

    "Fortunately your little one's gender will be very obvious." Judging by the fact that I explicitly pick out the girliest dresses possible when I shop for my little side I think this might be accurate. It's a statement that littles tend to latch on to a gender to an extreme whether that be boy or girl (keeping in mind this is in play I'm not sure you could play a trans person you would be playing the sex opposite them if that's making sense.)

    "gender confusion is normally just in males." This is a proposition he is either correct or incorrect about it and is probably referencing the result of a census where the majority of people who identified as trans were physically male. Worst case scenario he's simply wrong and blatantly wrong at that.

    "Transexulas do want to change genders." May be a case of term confusion here. This was my understanding too that a trans was someone who was actively seeking to change genders and someone who just identified as the other was a cross dresses again though it's probably a case of term confusion.

    "Sexuality and sexual drives will reveal the identity of your little." He lost me a little here but on some levels it does make sense gender is by definition a sexual thing.

    Maybe I'm just missing something and they might be taken out of context but the quotes here, I just don't see anything wrong with them.

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