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Thread: Substituted Tryptamines may cause infant-like states of mind

  1. #1

    Default Substituted Tryptamines may cause infant-like states of mind

    So I received a copy of one of the science magazines i'm subscribed to, and this week had an interesting cover story, which described recent ideas and theories about how the conscious mind of an infant operates.

    The article (unfortunately its not free to view the whole article)

    One of the prominent ideas of the article involves some of the research of the Imperial College London, where they are exploring the effects of serotonergic psychedelic chemicals have on a person's emotions and awareness. In conjunction with research from the University of Denver, reserarchers believe these drugs cause changes in perception and self-awareness closely comparable to the natural mind-state of an infant.



    Think what it's like to be totally immersed in an engrossing movie. "You are not in control, your consciousness is not planning, your self seems to disappear that's part of what's great about being absorbed in a movie," she says. "Yet the events in the movie are very, very vivid in your awareness." Being a baby might be like being sucked into a really good movie.

    The effects of psilocybin the active ingredient in magic mushrooms on adult consciousness may effectively revert key hubs in our brain to an infant-like state, at least temporarily. We appear to start life without a recognisable sense of self, developing self-awareness through social interactions.

    "One of the reasons why the psychedelic state is so interesting is that it offers a window into what infantile consciousness is like," he says. "It's the brain and mind moving back to an earlier stage, essentially, where our style of cognition is less constrained, less analytical, and more influenced by imagination and wishes, but also fears." Psilocybin also makes us emotionally volatile. Carhart-Harris is often struck by the child-like behaviour of his subjects. "One of the really notable things that you see with psychedelics is that people start to giggle," he says. "People behave in a very silly, immature way. It's quite endearing. They seem quite vulnerable."
    I personally found this article pretty interesting, and it would be really interesting to see any future research on the cognitive experience of infants. I don't think its much of a stretch, considering serotonergic psychedelic chemicals are produced naturally inside our bodies.

    As a warning though, many people abuse these chemicals for recreation, so don't think its in any way a good idea to try any of this at home. I shared this article because I thought it had interesting scientific significance, but serotonergic psychedelics are some of the most powerful drugs that exist, and can cause significant psychological harm (i.e. PTSD, other kinds of psychological trauma) if misused. Please leave the research to the professionals

  2. #2

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    I tried psilocybin mushrooms a few times -- you could buy them in every other shop in London and get them delivered first thing in the morning by refrigerated van.

    One of the most notable effects is that they (and other psychedelics) seem to calm down the brain processes that create the "sense of self". Without a "self" to be depressed, the trip can be a welcome relief for some. I can't understand why it was banned at all -- it's far safer than alcohol, tobacco or marijuana.

    Anyway, this article says that the primordial part of the brain undergoes changes that affect emotions and memory (which is why they have been used to treat PTSD). It also makes people do less "high-level" thinking, so people are immersed into a (somewhat) dream-like state.

    http://rinf.com/alt-news/sicence-tec...ression-study/

    I wonder if the the idea that psilocybin induces "child-like" states is down to the fact that the dreaminess of the experience combines with the sense of wonderment that many people experience after ingesting novel drugs... so they feel "lost in the moment" (which reminds us how often that happens as a kid and how rarely as an adult).

    I don't think ABs would typically find psilocybin helpful to regress, though!

    I suppose, in a way, alcohol makes people have a child-like experience. They find it hard to speak clearly, can throw tantrums, lose their inhibitions and burst into tears, fall stone cold asleep, etc.!

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    Quote Originally Posted by tiny View Post
    One of the most notable effects is that they (and other psychedelics) seem to calm down the brain processes that create the "sense of self". Without a "self" to be depressed, the trip can be a welcome relief for some. I can't understand why it was banned at all -- it's far safer than alcohol, tobacco or marijuana.
    Psychedelics seemed to be picking up pretty significant psychological research during the 50s and early 60s, but the youth culture pretty much screwed that over and introduced a bias towards that research. Even with significant evidence towards curing depression, numerous forms of anxiety, etc. I imagine most people still just view it as a 'hippy-cure' for things, kind of like medicinal marijuana, which is just now becoming more acceptable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aby View Post
    its illegal because some people can not handle it, and do horrible things or the cops have to deal with them.
    I don't think so. Many, many more people can't handle alcohol and do horrible things, etc. but that's legal. Drink too quickly and you can die. Psylocibin mushrooms won't kill you. And you don't get a hangover.

    It was just banned because authoritarians are fearful of them.



    Quote Originally Posted by Angie View Post
    Psychedelics seemed to be picking up pretty significant psychological research during the 50s and early 60s, but the youth culture pretty much screwed that over and introduced a bias towards that research. Even with significant evidence towards curing depression, numerous forms of anxiety, etc. I imagine most people still just view it as a 'hippy-cure' for things, kind of like medicinal marijuana, which is just now becoming more acceptable.
    Absolutely. The "drugs war" has caused some of the most interesting and useful medicinal substances to be overlooked. But, I think, psychedelics have far more medical potential than marijuana.

    Although I believe that recreational drugs should be legalised (and controlled and restricted), the concept of "medical" marijuana really stretches the limits of plausibility! I'm happy that people can buy it respectably without being involved with criminals. But... it's just a load of bullshit from the pro-cannabis lobby. I wish people would just be honest and say "it's now a legal drug, sort-of like alcohol", rather than, "It's my medicine".

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    Quote Originally Posted by tiny View Post
    But, I think, psychedelics have far more medical potential than marijuana.
    This is quite true. Ibogaine in particular show to be VERY promising in treatment of many kinds of addiction, when used in a therapeutic environment. Though, many companies who manufacture and distribute methadone for addiction treatment would lose millions (billions?).

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    Quote Originally Posted by tiny View Post
    Absolutely. The "drugs war" has caused some of the most interesting and useful medicinal substances to be overlooked. But, I think, psychedelics have far more medical potential than marijuana.

    Although I believe that recreational drugs should be legalised (and controlled and restricted), the concept of "medical" marijuana really stretches the limits of plausibility! I'm happy that people can buy it respectably without being involved with criminals. But... it's just a load of bullshit from the pro-cannabis lobby. I wish people would just be honest and say "it's now a legal drug, sort-of like alcohol", rather than, "It's my medicine".
    I hate to disagree with another enlightened soul who's realised that the war on drugs does more harm than good. However, I feel I need to defend medical marijuana's scientific credibility. Someone has to!

    I think it's generalist and assumptive to say that medical marijuana isn't a valid pharmaceutical. There exists a very large body of research that proves you wrong. Here's a brief list of some of the emerging medical uses for THC and CBD (cannabinoids), the two psychoactive psychotic and antipsychotic compounds found in marijuana:

    Epilepsy [1] [2]
    Multiple Sclerosis [3] [4] [5]
    Fibromyalgia [6] [7]
    Cancer [8] [9] [10]
    Alzheimers [11] [12]
    HIV [13] [14] [15]

    I've personally seen the effectiveness of medical marijuana on HIV. A very good friend of mine is supplied cannabis by the government (very difficult to do in the UK). He has HIV, and swears by it for managing the pain and the ups and downs associated with his condition.

    I'm most certainly not disagreeing with the idea that plenty of 'pro-marijuana' lobbyists are in fact selfish pot-smokers. I'd imagine this is more true than we could ever possibly dream. But I beg of you to consider the weight of evidence that demonstrates how effective marijuana can be. And then, for a moment, also consider the potential. We're going to see exponential growth in medical marijuana research in the coming years. It has been legalised in several US states, and is legal for medical usage in many others. I don't think we've even seen the best from CBD and THC. The best is yet to come, but what exists already is still damned exciting!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luca View Post
    I hate to disagree with another enlightened soul who's realised that the war on drugs does more harm than good. However, I feel I need to defend medical marijuana's scientific credibility. Someone has to!

    I think it's generalist and assumptive to say that medical marijuana isn't a valid pharmaceutical. There exists a very large body of research that proves you wrong.
    Now, hang on a minute! I didn't say that marijuana isn't a valid pharmaceutical. I was just criticising the insincerity of the way that the pro-marijuana lobby presents unprocessed marijuana as a medical panacea. If people want to use it, that's their choice.

    But why let 95% of recreational users deceive themselves into thinking that their drug of choice is medically beneficial, even if the 5% have a valid claim?

    And I was also just voicing a personal suspicion that psychedelics may prove to be medically more interesting than marijuana. The interaction of psilocybin on the brain is (to me) more interesting than marijuana.



    Quote Originally Posted by Luca View Post
    I don't think we've even seen the best from CBD and THC. The best is yet to come, but what exists already is still damned exciting!
    Me neither! But I suspect that any discoveries won't legitimise the current "free-for-all" for smoking unprocessed marijuana for quasi-medical reasons. If marijuana is valid for medical use... why are there marijuana dispensaries? Why don't chemists shops stock it with all their other drugs?

    We have some incredible drugs deriving from the opium poppy. Opium is one of the most valuable medical substances we know. But I wouldn't advocate legalising it and allowing people with certain medical conditions to frequent opium dens.

    Taking controlled doses of codeine to alleviate severe temporary pain sounds medically justified. Giving someone a prescription that allows them to smoke opium any time they feel like it... stretches the plausibility of "medical use"...

    I think that "medical marijuana" has taken off in some US states because it's a political euphemism that is more palatable to anti-recreation advocates than "legal drugs" would be. It's just marketing.

    So it's not that I don't see marijuana as having medical potential.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aby View Post
    its illegal because some people can not handle it, and do horrible things or the cops have to deal with them.
    All drugs are legal in user quantities here, I have had friends who did it (you can buy it nearly everywhere here) I never wanted to do it myself, but here it's common that there are one or two sober persons controlling the group. And I ain't taking them outside. Allthough the police will just pass you if you are not being any trouble to other people.

    So I checked up for that. I have no need for drugs like these. Though I found it quite fascinating what people started to do. One was catching butterfly's in the hallway, another did indeed totally lost awareness of everything around him. Another seemed to think the world was at the ceiling, and just stood in a corner watching up.

    They seemed to enjoy it. They closed all the public shops here a few years ago because some people thought they could fly (and thus started jumping from great (insurvivable) heights to their end. So the door to the balcony was mine.

    As with all drugs, it should be taken with great care. And especially with shrooms. There are people who permanently damaged their brain, causing them to fall back into a "trip state of mind" on random occasions. The combination of THC(marijuna) is known for this effect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tiny View Post
    Me neither! But I suspect that any discoveries won't legitimise the current "free-for-all" for smoking unprocessed marijuana for quasi-medical reasons. If marijuana is valid for medical use... why are there marijuana dispensaries? Why don't chemists shops stock it with all their other drugs?
    Marijuna has some serious side effects in long term use. It is a major cause of psychoses' and depressions. These are the effects for healthy people, sometimes these effects could actually revert someone who already has a depression/psychoses (the basic concept of homeopathie), still it should be handled carefully in anything outside closely monitored medical situations.

    Prohibiting never works. But other methods do.

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