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Thread: what to take from Isla Vista Incident

  1. #1

    Default what to take from Isla Vista Incident

    after constantly seeing replays upon replays of the elliot rogers massacre (the newspeople in Los Angeles will ride a story to death if it gets them more ratings) it made me stop and think about the different facets of it. the news/media thought police tried to make it about the aspergers they claim he had, or about gun control, but what about the actual issue that prompted him to do what he did?

    if you've seen his disturbing manifesto and videos you'll understand what i'm getting on about. i'm not sure if theres one or two adjectives to describe it. in a rather large nutshell, he saw the world in a hateful way, like everyone was out to get him, coupled with his claims that all girls rejected him and were going out with inferior men (i'm trying to paraphrase to avoid accidentally misquoting)

    because of this, he decided to "punish humanity" for his lack of social life and his virginity at i think 22, and he came to believe that he was somehow better than everybody else.

    obviously he was mistaken. even if you read his manifesto which would obviously favor him, you can still see the giant misperceptions he has about the world and about girls. its absurd at first glance, but then think about it a bit more.

    arent a lot of guys lonely? arent a lot of guys virgins while in college? dont men see amazing girls all the time with guys who are no good for them?

    maybe it happens more when one lives in a vacation spot (like i do) but the way i see it, this rogers seemed to express a few things that a lot of collegiate guys feel. HOWEVER, most collegiate guys never even think to do what this guy did, because it is ovbviously wrong and is beyond any tipping point i could think of. i'm not sure how to put it, but the way i see it, he just didnt see the world for what it was, and as a result assumed it in a different obscure way, and let his emotions get the better of him, though i've never heard of anyone getting angry enough to cause such a horrible act.

    perhaps its a mix of what he talks about, and some other chemical imbalance that we were not made aware of, but either way, this was just one freak screnario. the reason i brought this up at all is because i already see a shift happening socially. i see girls becoming afraid of guys who try to befriend them who are perfectly normal and well-intended. i see girls becoming afraid whenever a guy talks to them whether at school or at church or even at dances and events with friends.

    i guess the point i'm getting at is this: the majority of people who are lonely and have no partner, for whatever reason, are NOT THAT GUY. nobody will be that guy, so do not think that you are in the wrong for wishing you could talk to that amazing girl you see under the arm of a thug. you are not in the wrong for thinking you could be a better partner for whoever you wish to be with who is currently unavailible. not all men are like that creature. in fact most of us are the farthest thing from that.

    perhaps i'm incorrect in some of this, i really have no clue. this is just my take on it, and i'm sure that some of you will have different views about what happened. this is just what i gathered from what i saw and heard and read. perhaps one of you could help me sfigure out what i'm trying to say in all this.

    ...but i'm just 19 and dont know much about anything...

  2. #2

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    One strange thing about this particular case, looking at his videos and 'manifesto' it appears he never actually got rejected. He never went up to a girl and asked her out. He was upset because women were not throwing themselves at him, asking him out, making a first move on him, flirting, or admiring. He seemed quite fond of himself. It didn't look like he suffered a low self esteem at all. He was outright shocked and indignant that girls weren't clamoring for a chance to make out with him. One would also have to imagine that because he viewed himself as a sex god, he himself would have rejected women that were anything less than 9's and 10's.

    Basically, it seemed like his view of himself didn't match the way most others viewed him. He thought he was basically Brad Pitt - handsome and rich and talented, and didn't get why reality didn't match up to this. In a way, this is a problem many of us have. We have this very steady, firm view of ourselves as this or as that, without giving ourselves much leeway. Of course, in his case, he was pretty clearly sociopathic or psychopathic. In fact, I would even venture to guess that his diagnosis of Asperger's was wrong. He should have been diagnosed a psychopath. There is a misconception that Aspergers individuals have no empathy. This is so wrong. Sociopaths and psychopaths have no little to no empathy; people with Asperger's just have a difficult time trying to figure out mentally if people are saying one thing and meaning another (for example.)

    So the point Butters is making is right in many ways. We all, as humans, males and females, do share a similar with one thing. Sometimes we all have our ego get in the way of our happiness. We get so indignant sometimes when things don't go the way we think they should. As Butters said, obviously 99.99999% of us wouldn't react to this with a shooting spree. However, we do react to it in our own ways, and it's sad, mostly for our own self esteem. It would help us out a lot if we didn't have such a fixed view of ourselves. That we are fat, we are thin, we are smart, we are stupid, we are handsome, we are ugly, we are lonely, we are popular. Are we really any of these things? It's all like on this giant spectrum. And people change all the time. I think I'm all of these things. Every quality I mentioned I am, compared to someone at random. Am I smart? Not compared to Einstein. I just am, alive, and fluid, and changing. So if we can learn anything at all from this, having such a set-in-stone opinion of ourselves leads to trouble.

  3. #3

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    I don't take anything away from the incident at all. What I find interesting is that a spoiled white suburban boy shoots up a few people, its news for weeks.

    Same thing happens daily on the south side of Chicago, minus the manifesto. It makes the news that night, maybe, but next day they've moved on to the next day's drive by.
    Last edited by Maxx; 06-Jun-2014 at 12:42.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frogsy View Post
    So the point Butters is making is right in many ways. We all, as humans, males and females, do share a similar with one thing. Sometimes we all have our ego get in the way of our happiness. We get so indignant sometimes when things don't go the way we think they should. As Butters said, obviously 99.99999% of us wouldn't react to this with a shooting spree. However, we do react to it in our own ways, and it's sad, mostly for our own self esteem. It would help us out a lot if we didn't have such a fixed view of ourselves. That we are fat, we are thin, we are smart, we are stupid, we are handsome, we are ugly, we are lonely, we are popular. Are we really any of these things? It's all like on this giant spectrum. And people change all the time. I think I'm all of these things. Every quality I mentioned I am, compared to someone at random. Am I smart? Not compared to Einstein. I just am, alive, and fluid, and changing. So if we can learn anything at all from this, having such a set-in-stone opinion of ourselves leads to trouble.
    exactly! thats it! i feel lonely sometimes because i dont have somebody, but i would never do something like that, and the same goes for the rest of that 99.9999999%.
    thanks for clarifying my thoughts, Frogsy <3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxx View Post
    I don't take anything away from the incident at all. What I find interesting is that a spoiled white suburban boy shoots up a few people, its news for weeks.

    Same thing happens daily on the south side of Chicago, minus the manifesto. It makes the news that night, maybe, but next day they've moved on to the next day's drive by.
    out here it happens too, mostly in downtown LA or in the places known as Compton or South Central, but theyre not really publicized due to their uniformity of cause (robbery, revenge, #thuglife, ect.)

    however, this was publicized and talked a lot about because it was not for those reasons. it was because this idiot decided that the way to solve his lonliness and misconceptions of the world was to commit the same crime on a much larger scale. i guess what i'm saying its the motive and reasons that got attention more than the crimes themselves.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Butterscotch View Post
    i guess what i'm saying its the motive and reasons that got attention more than the crimes themselves.
    I think Butters has a point here. I just wrote a paper on mass rage-style shootings. They are their own topic in a way. It's a unique phenomena and it seems to happen in America more than any other location.

    However Maxx is correct too in ways... part of my conclusion in my paper was that a major part of the problem is the post-death fame given to mass-rage-shooters. Usually rage-shooters have paranoid beliefs about both being godlike while being persecuted (in a few cases it seemed true, but most cases they had a mental health condition that gave them this false impression.) So in their heads they think "I'm definitely God, or a god, so why are people treating me like a normal person?" At some point they can snap, as in this case, and many school shootings and all that in the past. When the mass media turns them into a celebrity, they get this fame they sort of always 'knew' or always thought was owed to them. A thread/discussion like this makes no difference, but the mass media giving them the fame they believed they always deserved is a problem. It gives the idea to more people who are in this unfortunate mental state.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frogsy View Post
    I think Butters has a point here. I just wrote a paper on mass rage-style shootings. They are their own topic in a way. It's a unique phenomena and it seems to happen in America more than any other location.

    However Maxx is correct too in ways... part of my conclusion in my paper was that a major part of the problem is the post-death fame given to mass-rage-shooters. Usually rage-shooters have paranoid beliefs about both being godlike while being persecuted (in a few cases it seemed true, but most cases they had a mental health condition that gave them this false impression.) So in their heads they think "I'm definitely God, or a god, so why are people treating me like a normal person?" At some point they can snap, as in this case, and many school shootings and all that in the past. When the mass media turns them into a celebrity, they get this fame they sort of always 'knew' or always thought was owed to them. A thread/discussion like this makes no difference, but the mass media giving them the fame they believed they always deserved is a problem. It gives the idea to more people who are in this unfortunate mental state.
    mhmm, thats true. they think that by doing this theyll leave their mark on the world or something instead of doing something good like being a hero and stuff. though the media loves turning it into an anti-gun campaign, which is actually off topic, since its the deranged loser who is commiting the crime, and wouldve committed it in one way or another. he already thought he was some sort of superior being, so in his mind he thought he would be above reproach, or another possibility would be that he knew he was going to die for what he did and decided that this was somehow justifiable because of it. ugh theres too many different facets to this, but a lot has to with his perception being so off, partially due to some chemical imbalance, but also due to a willingness to believe that he was superior or somehow better. though i have to keep in mind that he had some normal wants that we all want, like girls and validation, its just he twisted it into a horrible method for a horrible version of it, and didnt get either in the end.

    i guess that was my point in it, that we all want love and validation, but the type that we seek and the methods to achieving them need to be set right within our hearts so as to do whats right while achieving them. that sounded corny but i think thats what i meant.

  7. #7

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    The fact that this topic exists is proving that they did in fact leave their mark on the world.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by incontinentGM24 View Post
    The fact that this topic exists is proving that they did in fact leave their mark on the world.
    I would of thought it was the people that died, but thanks for clearing that up. I know damn well I never remembered this guys name and it was only a few weeks ago. If anything the biggest celebrity to be made out of this horrible event was the farther of a dead student who is totally irate about wanting gun control. I swear he should have his own reality show by now.

    As for whatever the idiot's name was. He was clearly a idiot in the top 1% of world idiots. so when the media was running his story, his reasonings, etc this was exactly how I felt.



    Now if there's a public beating of his corpse then fine, lets finally talk about the idiot.



    Lastly, it's clear his mom and dad are a bit over payed for whatever work they do for movies like The Funger Games. Though I guess if he was driving a old shity oldsmobile like my sister had, anyone he would of ran over *would* have died. But he practically hit them with a plastic tonka car in comparison. I feel pretty bad for that BMW too, having a douchebag for a owner like that.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire2box View Post
    I would of thought it was the people that died, but thanks for clearing that up. I know damn well I never remembered this guys name and it was only a few weeks ago. If anything the biggest celebrity to be made out of this horrible event was the farther of a dead student who is totally irate about wanting gun control. I swear he should have his own reality show by now.

    As for whatever the idiot's name was. He was clearly a idiot in the top 1% of world idiots. so when the media was running his story, his reasonings, etc this was exactly how I felt.



    Now if there's a public beating of his corpse then fine, lets finally talk about the idiot.



    Lastly, it's clear his mom and dad are a bit over payed for whatever work they do for movies like The Funger Games. Though I guess if he was driving a old shity oldsmobile like my sister had, anyone he would of ran over *would* have died. But he practically hit them with a plastic tonka car in comparison. I feel pretty bad for that BMW too, having a douchebag for a owner like that.
    we've gotten off the point i was trying to make by bringing light to this issue at all, which was that this guy wanted some of the things we all want, but twisted it in his perception so it turned into an entitlement or some sort.





    and i agree, people in the movie industry are so overpaid for sitting around telling others where to move stuff. and that was just that it's dad was an assistant director. same goes for those in the music industry.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Butterscotch View Post
    we've gotten off the point i was trying to make by bringing light to this issue at all, which was that this guy wanted some of the things we all want, but twisted it in his perception so it turned into an entitlement or some sort.



    and i agree, people in the movie industry are so overpaid for sitting around telling others where to move stuff. and that was just that it's dad was an assistant director. same goes for those in the music industry.
    I get what your trying to say. There are plenty of people who likely felt what he was feeling but so many people don't take their aggression out on people who've never "wronged" them before.

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