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Thread: Feminism

  1. #1

    Default Feminism

    Hi there,

    I'm new here and enjoying chatting, discussing and getting to know people on the forums. The reason for this thread is to ask what people's perceptions of feminism are?

    My group of friends are pretty much all feminists, we're all engaged with the debate etc, so it's really interesting to get perspectives from people from different walks of life/from different places etc!

    What brought this to my attention is that I received an inbox message on here with a lovely introduction and some general chat, unfortunately I can't yet reply to messages as I'm not established! (sorry SoHMara and Zackiepooh, I'm not ignoring you) in which someone told me they'd had experiences with 'feminazis' and were weary of feminism. They also said that equality of genders is an issue for both genders (Something which I believe is true but unfortunately women face far more inequality than men) hence the focus on women's rights.

    Anyway, I thought this would be an interesting question, so a couple of questions I guess.

    Do you consider yourself a feminist?

    If not, why not?

    What does the word feminism mean to you?

    Would you make assumptions about a person based on whether they called themselves a feminist or not?

    Thanks! Hope to hear some responses and get an interesting discussion started.

  2. #2

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    Absolutely not.

    I'm all for equal rights, whatever, but feminists are a boat load of insanity and the most radical of them refuse to listen to any logic or reason about anything, crying about nothing but "oppression! Fight the patriarchy!" It's entirely

    Be for everyone's free rights, but don't label yourself a feminist of all things.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by KuroCat View Post
    Absolutely not.

    I'm all for equal rights, whatever, but feminists are a boat load of insanity and the most radical of them refuse to listen to any logic or reason about anything, crying about nothing but "oppression! Fight the patriarchy!" It's entirely

    Be for everyone's free rights, but don't label yourself a feminist of all things.
    The definition of feminism is 'the advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes.'
    Does that sound insane or illogical to you?

    By labelling yourself a feminist all you do is make the statement that you believe in the equality of the sexes isn't it?
    If you're all for equal rights then technically you are a feminist.

    Can I ask a couple of more questions,
    What experience have you had with feminists?
    And what do you think feminists believe?


    Just to let you know my view;
    I'm a feminist.


    I love women, I am a woman, I have lots of women in my life who I love, we all experience sexism in our lives (which is damaging), I want equality for them and me, I am a feminist.

    I love men, I have lots of men in my life who I love, I have a boyfriend who treats me as equal and is a feminist,
    I want men to treat women as equal and for equality we need men to advocate women's rights, therefore we need men to be feminists too.

    Do you see anything wrong in that?

    Not trying to be confrontational at all btw! I really like a healthy debate

  4. #4

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    I hate debates like this, they only lead to one thing (closed Threads) second thing I hate politicians and politics in general they all have their hands in their own pockets as the rich get richer and poor get poorer, politicians = empty promises. Yes equal rights and all is a good thing, but I mean why label yourself? sorry I just don't understand it and to be brutally honest it annoys the heck out of me.... when people come together with so many outside opinions on one subject leads me to believe there is no such thing as a healthy debate. Sorry but that's how I see it and I know what your thinking (narrow minded) and maybe that's the case, but that's my point of view and I'm sticking to it.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by babygirl5 View Post
    The definition of feminism is 'the advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes.'
    Does that sound insane or illogical to you?

    By labelling yourself a feminist all you do is make the statement that you believe in the equality of the sexes isn't it?
    If you're all for equal rights then technically you are a feminist.
    No, if I advocate the equality of all sexes, then I'm for basic human rights, not a feminist. Why would I label myself as a feminist - which comes from the word "feminine," which just means "womanly" - if I was for the equality of both sexes, male or female?



    Quote Originally Posted by babygirl5 View Post
    Can I ask a couple of more questions,
    What experience have you had with feminists?
    And what do you think feminists believe?
    I can acknowledge that feminism isn't terrible on its own, but unfortunately the most outspoken of the entire bunch are very crazy people, who want nothing more than to destroy men, and the fact that the most outspoken portion of the group are that radical and insane, where they believe that men are oppressing women and they need to smash some sort of patriarchy and destroy some sort of male agenda to keep women suppressed is enough to turn me off of the feminist label entirely.

    Regardless, I see no need to ever label yourself regardless of where you stand in the world.



    Quote Originally Posted by babygirl5 View Post
    I love women, I am a woman, I have lots of women in my life who I love, we all experience sexism in our lives (which is damaging), I want equality for them and me, I am a feminist.
    Well, men also experience sexism, but I'm not going to create a massive label for myself. Many men find it very difficult to get jobs as a babysitter.




    Quote Originally Posted by babygirl5 View Post
    I love men, I have lots of men in my life who I love, I have a boyfriend who treats me as equal and is a feminist,
    I want men to treat women as equal and for equality we need men to advocate women's rights, therefore we need men to be feminists too.
    All you need are for people to be aware of struggles that both sexes go through every day and to be aware that many humans are lacking basic rights due to gender, age, sex, orientation, race, etc., and that it's not just women who have to go through such struggles, it's everyone as a whole. I'm for human rights as a whole, not just the equality of women. Women are a portion of the world's population, just like men are, and gays, and straights, and Latinos, and whites, and Asians, and whatever sex, orientation, gender, anything you can think of. Why focus on a portion of it, rather than the whole? Work on the problem as a whole, not just a small piece of it.



    Quote Originally Posted by babygirl5 View Post
    Do you see anything wrong in that?
    No, I don't, but my run-ins with many feminists out there have led me to just write off the label entirely, and I find it better to branch out and look at everything as a whole, rather than focusing on just women.



    Quote Originally Posted by babygirl5 View Post
    Not trying to be confrontational at all btw! I really like a healthy debate
    Neither am I! Sorry if my first post was a bit blunt, I was in a rush and just slammed down what came to my mind first without thinking.

  6. #6

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    I'm paraphrasing a bit here, but Joss Whedon got this the best for me. He mentioned that people think there is some fuzzy middle ground of not being a sexist but also not being a feminist. There isn't. You either believe that women are people or you don't.

    So yes, I'm a feminist. I'm not a radical feminist, or radical's idea of a feminist, or any of those things but I am very much a feminist and I believe most people are too. Being a feminist isn't being a crazy psycho man-hater, that's a completely different thing they just tend to latch onto feminism and are what the public sees. It's the same with any group and happens a lot with groups these days. Like blaming every person who considers themselves Christian for the actions of the hate spewing few.

    It's important that I think people realize they are feminists too, because I believe that there is still a battle that needs fighting everyday. It's a sad fact in this world that so many things are still only looked and made considering the male perspective, and we still consider male pretty much the default in gender for quite a lot of things. It boggles my mind how many people still believe that having a female character option in a video game is somehow an extra 'other' option for instance. Most of it is done by people who are used to things being a certain way since that's the way it's always been. It's not done out of hate at all but it's hard to deny that it's everywhere and it's important to speak out and make sure people are aware of it. I hope more amazing people who do believe women are equal in every single way are not afraid to consider themselves feminists in the future.

    I understand that some men have felt personally attacked, like they were personally oppressing women by existing as male. They also have felt attacked for thinking that breasts are sexy and might very much enjoy seeing them. I really do apologize for that. You aren't a jerk because of those things at all. Those things are perfectly fine. Just also please don't take it personally when someone might point out that something you do might imply a sort of male superiority, or a sort of 'sex object' role for women. Both men and women do it and many people immediately get defensive. It's just surprisingly commonplace and most feminists who identify as such understand that it's learned and not intentional. Be aware when someone isn't calling you a jerk, but is just implying you might want to change the way you word something or see something.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by gigglemuffinz View Post
    I'm paraphrasing a bit here, but Joss Whedon got this the best for me. He mentioned that people think there is some fuzzy middle ground of not being a sexist but also not being a feminist. There isn't. You either believe that women are people or you don't.


    Quote Originally Posted by gigglemuffinz View Post
    So yes, I'm a feminist. I'm not a radical feminist
    Wow, are you sure about that?

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by KuroCat View Post
    Wow, are you sure about that?
    Yes, quite. I'm aware that's a powerfully worded statement, but I believe it has a important kernel of truth in it. I'm not implying that every person who doesn't 'consider' themselves a feminist is a sexist. I'm saying that many people who don't consider themselves feminists are feminists who just hate the label. I should have made that more clear in my post, but I have a tendency to post it too early and spend 10 minutes tinkering and editing it which isn't a smart thing to do.

    I also feel your response was a bit immature. You didn't engage me in a mature and reasonable way, but instead pretty much just attacked the very first thing I said without really I feel paying attention to the rest of the meat of my post.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by gigglemuffinz View Post
    Yes, quite. I'm aware that's a powerfully worded statement, but I believe it has a important kernel of truth in it. I'm not implying that every person who doesn't 'consider' themselves a feminist is a sexist. I'm saying that many people who don't consider themselves feminists are feminists who just hate the label. I should have made that more clear in my post, but I have a tendency to post it too early and spend 10 minutes tinkering and editing it which isn't a smart thing to do.

    I also feel your response was a bit immature. You didn't engage me in a mature and reasonable way, but instead pretty much just attacked the very first thing I said without really I feel paying attention to the rest of the meat of my post.
    Of course I didn't engage you in a mature way. It's impossible to engage that post of all things maturely, considering your post very clearly states that there is no line between "not feminist" and "not sexist", and it implied that you are either a feminist where you don't see a woman as an object, or you're not and you do see a woman as an object. It's a silly statement to make. The quote you made in the your other post is absolutely ridiculous and baffling.

    "I'm paraphrasing a bit here, but Joss Whedon got this the best for me. He mentioned that people think there is some fuzzy middle ground of not being a sexist but also not being a feminist. There isn't. You either believe that women are people or you don't." This is what you said. The implication is very clearly there. There is no other way to interpret that: either you are a feminist and a woman is a person, or you're not a feminist and the women is also not a person.

    As for the rest of your other post:



    Quote Originally Posted by gigglemuffinz View Post
    It's important that I think people realize they are feminists too, because I believe that there is still a battle that needs fighting everyday. It's a sad fact in this world that so many things are still only looked and made considering the male perspective, and we still consider male pretty much the default in gender for quite a lot of things. It boggles my mind how many people still believe that having a female character option in a video game is somehow an extra 'other' option for instance.
    This, to name one thing, is also incredibly ridiculous. It's the default option because, guess what, men are the target demographic and men make up the majority of people who play video games. Why do you think heavy action movies are also marked towards men? That's the main demographic, because no matter how you slice it, the majority of women simply are not into that sort of thing. It is not a sexist issue and it is absolutely ridiculous to ever think it is. There is nothing about that that should ever say "this is sexist." No, it should say "this is the main demographic, so this is the demographic we've targeted, hence our marketing towards said demographic." Not only that, but if playing a man completely bothers you, then that's really just your own problem, and not the problem of any sort of sexist issue towards women. Men very rarely have any problem playing a woman, because hey, we just don't care, since video games are about, well, the gameplay, and not what gender of all things your character is. No one sees the female sex in video games as just another option, they see it as a different option if they're men, just like women see the male character as a different option.

    I play women in video games quite a lot because sometimes the voice actor is better, or the armor or gear looks better on a female character, or the female character just looks better, and you should do the same regarding the male character. At the end of the day, I could seriously not give a less of a damn about what gender my character is, just as long as they're appealing, which is the only reason I pick any gender. If the male character looks more, well, appealing then that's what I'm going for. On Diablo III, my Wizards and Demon Hunters are always female because they look the best for that role, and Barbarians and Crusaders look best as men, and that's just my own personal opinion.




    Quote Originally Posted by gigglemuffinz View Post
    Most of it is done by people who are used to things being a certain way since that's the way it's always been. It's not done out of hate at all but it's hard to deny that it's everywhere and it's important to speak out and make sure people are aware of it. I hope more amazing people who do believe women are equal in every single way are not afraid to consider themselves feminists in the future.
    There really is not a lot of hate towards women. There are a lot of hate towards feminists, and you can contribute that to the outspoken majority of the group that also happens to be the typical tumblr feminist: nothing but a boat of crazy screaming about some hidden patriarchy and oppression brought upon by man. The hate that women think are out there, really isn't out there. People just don't care about sex. Men seriously couldn't care less whether or not you're a man or a woman. Very few people care. There are, however, profession restrictions on women, but that stems from the fact that, yes, the typical female is naturally physically weaker than the typical man, and that's why women may have to work harder to be a police officer, or to be a commander or officer in the military. That isn't hate, that is a restriction that's there because those jobs require a lot of physical exertion. Women aren't inferior to men in any way, and no one believes that, but there are very clearly differences in the strength of the average man and average woman.

    I notice that far too often feminists try to play the victim to something that no one else even notices or bats an eye at. They take the smallest thing and make it this big sexist issue that needs to be addressed, when no, there is no sexist issue and there is nothing that needs to be addressed. Both men and women are, in all honesty, very equal and both men and women deal with struggles on a constant basis, not just women. Quit looking at women as victims and just start working to get everyone in the world on an equal level, rather than attributing very small nothings into sexist problems that are bringing the woman down and are preventing her from being equal.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyDoodle View Post
    I hate debates like this, they only lead to one thing (closed Threads) second thing I hate politicians and politics in general they all have their hands in their own pockets as the rich get richer and poor get poorer, politicians = empty promises. Yes equal rights and all is a good thing, but I mean why label yourself? sorry I just don't understand it and to be brutally honest it annoys the heck out of me.... when people come together with so many outside opinions on one subject leads me to believe there is no such thing as a healthy debate. Sorry but that's how I see it and I know what your thinking (narrow minded) and maybe that's the case, but that's my point of view and I'm sticking to it.
    Fair enough.

    My opinion would always be that conversation helps understanding, which can only ever be a good thing.
    The reason I wanted to bring this issue up is that I've experienced attitudes towards feminism on here that I don't in my everyday life, understanding why is only ever beneficial.

    Feminism is not necessarily a part of politics, and doesn't rely on politicians, it mainly concerns itself with the way humans treat each other on the whole. That includes employer/employee relationships etc but also how you treat strangers you come into contact with on an everyday basis, or those you love around you, based on gender. There is without doubt a lot of corruption within politics, I agree, although there is still always a better option, so if you see issues with the world around you the best way to deal with them is to demonstrate or vote, rather than ignore it as a hopeless case.

    Having a lot of opinions is a great thing, diversity is always good, understanding is fantastic. The more opinions the better I think! On a personal level it's extremely beneficial for me to understand other people's points of views, it opens up my mind and their's too.

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