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Thread: Some sleep deprived ramblings....

  1. #1

    Unhappy Some sleep deprived ramblings....

    I have been thinking more about the role age plays in my daily life and have tried to figure out what ABDL* has to do with age. I have been bothered by the fact that there is a subset of people in the ABDL* community who are constantly being put down for saying they are "babies trapped in adult bodies". These individuals are consistently invalidated and written off as being mentally ill and "letting their ABDL get out balance". I would not go as far as to say I am a "baby trapped in the body of an adult", but I would say I am "age non-conforming" and I identify as agequeer. None the less I have felt unwelcome in the community and I wonder how many others out there who are like me.

    From my website:

    <*****
    What Do We Mean When We Say "Age"?:
    “One is only as old as they feel...”

    Lets start by breaking down some definitions:

    "Age Identity"- a person's private sense, and subjective experience, of their own age. All societies have a set of age identities that can serve as the basis of the formation of a social identity in relation to other members of society. In most societies, there is a basic division between age attributes assigned to the different age identities. Society assigns age identities on the basis of one's chronological age and appearance. One's age identity is no more attached to their chronological age than gender or sexual orientation is to one's biological sex. Some mainstream examples of age identies are: baby, toddler, child, teen, young adult, adult, senior, and super senior. There are however, other age idenities outside the typical spectrum which are important to ABDL*s such as

    "Assigned Age Identity/Age Group"- Socially constructed labels given involuntarily to individuals based on their outward appearance.
    Example: A male person appears to be about 45 years of chronological age, is labeled as a "middle-aged man".

    "Mental Age/Mentality"- used in more of a clinical/legal sense to convey the equivalent level of one's mental function compared to others of the same chronological age.
    Example: A chronologically aged male of 45 years who has a mental age of 2 would most likely be described as being severely functionally impaired and unable to live independently.

    "Chronological Age"- someone's age as counted from birth.
    Example someone born in 1990 is chronologically 23 years old in the year 2013.

    “Age non-conformity”- defined most simply as behaviors and self-expression that does not conform to the social expectations for one’s assigned age identity.
    Example: Thumb sucking that continues past preschool.

    “Age-dysphoria”- sadness and general sense of unease in individuals that feel that their age identity is not in line with their body or the way they are percieved by others. Individuals experiencing age dysphoria essentially feel that the world sees and treats them as if they are the wrong age.




    So what do all these words mean? Ultimately the word “age” by itself is meaningless without context. Age non-conformity explains the motivations and behaviors of some individuals within the ABDL* spectrum very well. While a great number of ABDL*s consider themselves adults, and their ABDL* behaviors as simply a fetish, there are others withing the community who consider themselves to be outside the typical socially constructed age groups. For this subset of ABDL*s, there is a disconnect between their age identity and their physical body that leads to a phenomenon called “age dysphoria”. While there are some individuals who identify as babies/children 100% of the time, there are also age identity equivalents of the more fluid gender identities that exist such as: genderqueer, bigender, agender.... The author of this website himself identifies as agequeer because his behaviors and self-expression do not neatly align with any particular age norms. Fluidity means essentially the same thing with regard to age as it does with gender with the exception of the fact that fluidity is no longer the opposite of being static. Static is the cultural norm for gender whereas for age it is not. The majority of the human race does not have a static age identity, instead it is for the most part a linear progression also known as “growing up”. Fluidity in an age related sense means moving between characteristics of age identities in no particular order.

    So in a nutshell, saying someone else is "20 years old" doesn't really carry a lot of meaning. There are several different types of ages one can have and none of them have to match up with one another. Most importantly though, age identity is not externally visible and only the individual themselves can know with certainty what their own age identity is.



    Examples Of Age (me):

    Chronological Age: 21

    Assigned Age Identity: Young Adult

    Age-identity: agequeer

    Mental Age: 28 (28/21*100= 138IQ)

    *****>



    On another note: I have previously asserted that ABDL*-phobia is legitmate and that parallels can be drawn between it and homophobia/transphobia. This was met with criticism and accusations of being transphobic. Ironically these accusations of transphobia were backed up by inherently transphobic ideas that were potentially offensive to non-binary people. Some people said I was insulting the LGTBQ+ community by drawing parallels between ABDL-phobia and transphobia because they felt transphobia was so much worse.


    Lets be honest ABDL-phobia is not an underdog. In a fight between ABDL-phobia and transphobia in terms of crappyness they are both close. At the very least they both suck, and ABDL*-phobia is every bit as legitimate...

    Lets remember the old phrase: "Women and children should be spoken to and not heard". Society deems women and children inferior. This phrase explains why transphobia and ABDL-phobia exist.

    "Crappy Advantages" of ABDL*-phobia:
    1. Misopedia is more prevalent than mysogyny.
    2. Aesthetic standards are harsher for ABDL*s. True most transgender people can never 100% meet societies aesthetic standards or are non-binary, but ABDL*s are totally screwed. Some ABDL*s could benefit from hormone blockers during puberty and hair removal, but ABDL*s can never pass. Also there are 2 bins for at least some part of the transgender population to fall into. There is no "gender-binary" equivalent in age identity. No passing or going stealth for some ABDL*s. EVER.


    As far as "Crappy Advantages" of transphobia: 1. Larger portion of human population affected by it, 2. Sexual Violence.....more I don't feel like getting into. Transphobia is established as infinitely crappy.

    At the end of the day the issue here is that PHYSICAL APPEARANCES HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH "WHO" SOMEONE IS. Identity whether it be gender or age is wedged firmly in the mind of the individual and no one has the right to decide it "for" them except the individual themselves. Furthermore, identity is not a choice. We are "who" we are because we are.



    I guess my main issue with saying that ABDL-phobia is insignificant compared to transphobia is that at least the transgender community DID SOMETHING and made some progress. Things are getting better (at least in some places).

    You people (not specifically anyone at ADISC or ADISC itself, just our community as a whole), haven't done a damn thing except bash Stanely and Riley. We need to do something. Every year we have suicidal members in binge/purge cycles. Every year (when ADISC allowed teens) somebody would be disowned/ homeless because they are ABDL*. Every few months we become the butt of a joke on tv. I know for me personally I don't have as much motivation and feel hopeless. Why bother to go to college and get a degree. What am I going to do with it. Get married to a woman.... have lots of sex.... be a grown up? The other aspects of my life are wonderful, but even on my happinest days there is always a part of me that wants to jump off a bridge. I am terrified to think of what will happen in 20 years if the outlook for ABDL*s isn't better. I will probably kill myself at that point. Right now what keeps me going is the hope that things will get better.

    We need to do something. Being an ABDL* has to suck less. A lot of ABDL*s don't understand that there isn't a "keep it in the bedroom" option for some of us. It is like a heterosexual male crossdresser telling a trans woman to "keep it in the bedroom". Not a realistic request.

  2. #2

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    Hey, and welcome back. I can see this is obviously really upsetting to you, because it's really meaningful to you. We've spoken on this subject before, and I think what I said last time still holds: you're free to identify yourself as you choose, but so is everyone else. If you wish to identify as agequeer, and you believe you experience dysphoria between your chronological age and the age you identify as, you're free to do so. Just remember that you are proposing a new and fairly radical idea, and people will automatically be skeptical unless convincing evidence can be provided.

    I can tell you've put some real thought into your theories, and have taken a lens similar to the LGBT community to analyze ABDL issues. Obviously it's upsetting to be called transphobic when I doubt you're anything of the sort. The reason, I think, is because it can be seen by some as making trans struggles less legitimate. I'm not saying it does - you'd have to ask trans people to know for sure - but we both know that they go through some incredibly hard challenges with transitioning and public acceptance. And I think the fear is that, if other groups co-opt their struggle, it'll de-legitimize it to others. Transgender may not be a widely accepted thing, but it's far more accepted than ABDL. And we run the risk of accidentally making the struggles of trans people look less legitimate. (As an analogy: many people are turned off by feminism because they encounter a radical feminist who tells them they should die for being male, etc - when the vast majority of feminists aren't like this at all. In a similar way, people can stop believing that transpeople have legitimate struggles when what they go through is pasted over another group, in a situation where up til now, most of its members haven't wanted that level of transitioning). I think this is why the accusations of transphobia flew - not because you are, but because it runs the risk of belittling their struggles (even if unintentionally).

    I understand that in your situation, you're dealing with far more intense longings than most of us. I don't want to discount your desire to be public about being little and be treated that way. It's certainly a real thing. I would suggest, though, that this doesn't necessarily mean that your true age is lower than your chronological one. Within the ABDL community, I think there's widespread consensus that we're adults who occasionally like to return to infancy. So I guess my question is: how can you be certain that this is actual age dysphoria, on the level of gender dysphoria, and not simply a very strong desire to regress? The reason I ask is because you are the first to strongly put forth a theory of age dysphoria, and in order for that theory to gain wide acceptance, evidence is needed. There's ample medical evidence that gender dysphoria is a real, biological thing. I'm not saying you need to go get an PET scan or a psychiatric evaluation, but what evidence is there that this is not simply a very intensely felt longing? Let me be clear: I'm not saying this isn't real, but I am saying that people aren't likely to believe an argument unless there's something supporting it.

    And I'm sorry if I come across as unaccepting. I do think you're a good person, and I think what you're wanting is a real and legitimate desire. I just have trouble with the agequeer idea because I'm not sure if there's evidence for it. That said, I'm willing to listen.

    Finally, on the subject of ABDLphobia, I do believe it's a real thing. People are afraid of ABDL, and believe a lot of misconceptions about it. The reason I don't equate it with transphobia is because ABDLs aren't the target of organized hate, we're not discriminated against in the law, and we don't generally have to fear for our safety. I guess that last point is different if you want to publicly identify as a different age, though. Still, since most people here don't, I think that's why they were hesitant to accept ABDLphobia as on the level of transphobia. I've experienced what some would call persecution for being an ABDL. It's terrible. But again, I don't think my challenges compare to how transpeople have lost their jobs and homes, been actively hated, and even died as a result of their gender identity. I don't fear for my life or physical safety, even in a small town. It's quite different than if I were trans. Again, though, I don't identify as agequeer or want to present publicly as a baby. So yes, I see why in your situation that's different.

    I think overall, you're in the unfortunate position of having a view that's different from most of the community, and so that's why there's a clash here. Many ABDLs would say that designations such as agequeer make it more difficult for us to present the way we want to - as adults who occasionally regress, but don't want to be babies full-time. I know that's not your intent, and I doubt it'd happen unless you became quite famous. Still, please try and understand why what you're proposing may upset some in the community. I understand why you're upset, and I think it's fair to be upset. You want to be accepted like the rest of us. The key seems to be finding a way for us to both seek out what we need without stepping on each others' toes.

    So overall, even if I'm not sure about your assertions about being agequeer and about ABDLphobia, I accept that they're meaningful for you. You've got the right to live the way you want to as long as you're not harming anyone, and it doesn't sound like you are. Remember, though, that everyone has a certain way they want to live, just like you. And we've all got it tough in that respect. So that's why some are quick to jump on you. I'm not sure what the compromise is to help all of us be happy, but I'm sure there's one out there. Perhaps just mutual acceptance that some people will be more permanent about their ABDL than others. I think we as a community could get behind that idea. I just wish society would, too.

  3. #3

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    I'm sorry if offend anyone with this reply, I do not mean to I am just thinking out loud and I could very well be wrong. Anyway,

    I mainly just wanted to talk about identifying as a different age. I'm not sure I agree that this is possible. Obviously I agree people can have urges to be treated younger, or even treated younger forever or older. But I do not believe It is a real "thing". In the sense that age does define us in the simple way of we are born, we age, we die (at least that's how it is currently). It seems weird for me to say I am a different age. Because I am 21,I have been biologically aging for 21 earth years, but being an ABDL I enjoy regressing but I would never say that inside I am truly a different age.

    The difference to me with things like homosexuality is that in that case you know who you are sexually/emotionally attracted to. There is no law of nature that says you can't kiss a same Sex person. The simple fact that it happens is enough to prove to me that it's real. you could argue that because reproduction needs boy/girl that's a law. But there are other theories, but to me it is irrelavent though, people are not choosing to be with same Sex partners. They truly are attracted to them the same way a straight person is to opposite sex (I probably spent to much time explaining that I'm sure we can all agree haha). but with ABDL you cannot disconnect from your age 100%, like you can with sexuality. Because you are living. No matter how strongly a 120 year old person believes he/she is younger they will still die soon because they can't be rid of their age. However someone that is homosexually will never feel an attraction toward opposite sex, ever. It is gone; not part of their identity. But age has to be.

    Sorry if there is a lot of mistakes or I'm off topic, just ranting haha plus I'm hung over :/ lol

  4. #4

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    I think the issue at hand is really what is age? There a lot of different types of age.


    ShyLittleBoy "but with ABDL you cannot disconnect from your age 100%"

    You have a fundamentally different concept of "age" than I do.
    You are talking about CHRONOLOGICAL AGE not age identity.
    Big difference.


    Age-identity is NEVER connected to one's physical body. Age-identity is a concept made up by humans that doesn't actually exist in nature. Age identity is like gender identity. It is not a physical/tangible kind of thing. Chronological age does not equal age identity. Gender does not equal sex.

  5. #5

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    I understand the concept but what I'm saying is that I think it's totally different then sexual identity or gender identity. Because with gender/sexuality you can "escape" what you believe that you are not. ie if you are straight you never have to be with the same sex romantically. Or if you identify as a boy (but you were born as a girl) you can go through therapy to become a boy(maybe not perfect I dont know the details, but in principle you can). But if I identify as being 10 years old there is no way I can escape my actual age. At least not yet.

    To me the two ideas are very different; not to say it is wrong.Just separate. That's just my opinion.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adventurer View Post
    Hey, and welcome back. I can see this is obviously really upsetting to you, because it's really meaningful to you. We've spoken on this subject before, and I think what I said last time still holds: you're free to identify yourself as you choose, but so is everyone else. If you wish to identify as agequeer, and you believe you experience dysphoria between your chronological age and the age you identify as, you're free to do so. Just remember that you are proposing a new and fairly radical idea, and people will automatically be skeptical unless convincing evidence can be provided.
    The problem is that we are pushing the burden of proof unfairly on these individuals. There will never be "ENOUGH" convincing evidence to convince the non-believers. It is deliberate ignorance. I have personally said that I do not identify as an adult. I have been written off. A few ABDL*s on TV have said they don't identify as adults.
    They were written off. People keep dismissing proof because they don't want to be confronted by it. Besides proof will never be enough for the ignorant and hateful. There is lots of "proof" out there that LGTBQ* misconceptions are total B.S., yet they still persist today....



    Quote Originally Posted by Adventurer View Post
    I can tell you've put some real thought into your theories, and have taken a lens similar to the LGBT community to analyze ABDL issues. Obviously it's upsetting to be called transphobic when I doubt you're anything of the sort. The reason, I think, is because it can be seen by some as making trans struggles less legitimate. I'm not saying it does - you'd have to ask trans people to know for sure - but we both know that they go through some incredibly hard challenges with transitioning and public acceptance. And I think the fear is that, if other groups co-opt their struggle, it'll de-legitimize it to others. Transgender may not be a widely accepted thing, but it's far more accepted than ABDL. And we run the risk of accidentally making the struggles of trans people look less legitimate. (As an analogy: many people are turned off by feminism because they encounter a radical feminist who tells them they should die for being male, etc - when the vast majority of feminists aren't like this at all. In a similar way, people can stop believing that transpeople have legitimate struggles when what they go through is pasted over another group, in a situation where up til now, most of its members haven't wanted that level of transitioning). I think this is why the accusations of transphobia flew - not because you are, but because it runs the risk of belittling their struggles (even if unintentionally).

    This is a selfish mindset. The transgender community has no right (not saying they have ever done this) to own the "epic struggle between identity and physical appearance". It belongs to us all. So called "Cis-gendered" people still take a lot of crap related to gender roles too. Straight cis boys are still called sissy faggots and trash canned in school. It is everyone's fight.

    The trans community has no right to exclude anyone from the struggle of "Physical Body≠ Identity". This is the exact same chicken-shit attitude the LGB community took towards the trans community when they excluded them. They said the trans community would belittle the gays rights movement. They were full of $^&*.



    Quote Originally Posted by Adventurer View Post
    So I guess my question is: how can you be certain that this is actual age dysphoria, on the level of gender dysphoria, and not simply a very strong desire to regress? The reason I ask is because you are the first to strongly put forth a theory of age dysphoria, and in order for that theory to gain wide acceptance, evidence is needed. There's ample medical evidence that gender dysphoria is a real, biological thing. I'm not saying you need to go get an PET scan or a psychiatric evaluation, but what evidence is there that this is not simply a very intensely felt longing? Let me be clear: I'm not saying this isn't real, but I am saying that people aren't likely to believe an argument unless there's something supporting it.
    Well the biological evidence idea B.S..... Biology cannot explain gender dysphoria for non-binary people. So by your logic non-binary trans people don't exist. A PET scan will not show someone has a genderqueer brain. GENDER is not firmly rooted in biology. THAT IS THE ENTIRE POINT OF BEING TRANSENDER... Biological evidence is not a realistic prerequisite for legitmacy.



    Quote Originally Posted by Adventurer View Post
    And I'm sorry if I come across as unaccepting. I do think you're a good person, and I think what you're wanting is a real and legitimate desire. I just have trouble with the agequeer idea because I'm not sure if there's evidence for it. That said, I'm willing to listen.
    Why should I have to show you anything? It is not my burden of proof to prove that our society's made up ideas about age are WRONG. It is YOUR burden to prove that our society's made up ideas about age are not total B.S. There is no proof that age identity has anything to do with chronological age. People are only as old as they feel. Furthermore the divisions between age groups are arbitrary as well. You cannot give me REAL reason that living for 18 years magically makes someone different than the day before. Age is fluid.



    Quote Originally Posted by Adventurer View Post
    Finally, on the subject of ABDLphobia, I do believe it's a real thing. People are afraid of ABDL, and believe a lot of misconceptions about it. The reason I don't equate it with transphobia is because ABDLs aren't the target of organized hate, we're not discriminated against in the law, and we don't generally have to fear for our safety. I guess that last point is different if you want to publicly identify as a different age, though. Still, since most people here don't, I think that's why they were hesitant to accept ABDLphobia as on the level of transphobia. I've experienced what some would call persecution for being an ABDL. It's terrible. But again, I don't think my challenges compare to how transpeople have lost their jobs and homes, been actively hated, and even died as a result of their gender identity. I don't fear for my life or physical safety, even in a small town. It's quite different than if I were trans. Again, though, I don't identify as agequeer or want to present publicly as a baby. So yes, I see why in your situation that's different.
    But ABDL*s have lost their jobs... Have been assaulted... Died?.... Look at how unhealthy a lot of us are. The hostility I have encountered has prevented me from living a full happy life. I think the reason why ABDL*-phobia looks so small is that we have not hit our TIPPING POINT yet. 100 years ago there was no such thing as transgender people supposedly.....Not true.... People just weren't out/ realized that being out was a thing.



    Quote Originally Posted by Adventurer View Post
    I think overall, you're in the unfortunate position of having a view that's different from most of the community, and so that's why there's a clash here. Many ABDLs would say that designations such as agequeer make it more difficult for us to present the way we want to - as adults who occasionally regress, but don't want to be babies full-time. I know that's not your intent, and I doubt it'd happen unless you became quite famous. Still, please try and understand why what you're proposing may upset some in the community. I understand why you're upset, and I think it's fair to be upset. You want to be accepted like the rest of us. The key seems to be finding a way for us to both seek out what we need without stepping on each others' toes.
    I'm not stepping on anyone's toes. I am just standing here. Unfortunately everybody else seems to be to eager to try for a monopoly over space. I have never put down any other ABDL*s. Me identifying as agequeer doe not affect you guys in any way...



    Quote Originally Posted by Adventurer View Post
    So overall, even if I'm not sure about your assertions about being agequeer and about ABDLphobia, I accept that they're meaningful for you. You've got the right to live the way you want to as long as you're not harming anyone, and it doesn't sound like you are. Remember, though, that everyone has a certain way they want to live, just like you. And we've all got it tough in that respect. So that's why some are quick to jump on you. I'm not sure what the compromise is to help all of us be happy, but I'm sure there's one out there. Perhaps just mutual acceptance that some people will be more permanent about their ABDL than others. I think we as a community could get behind that idea. I just wish society would, too.
    Our community has to get "behind that idea". I have heard my trans and bi friends say say how much they feel betrayed by the GL community. Now I know what they meant. The fetishistic adult babies and diaper lovers have decided that the age-non conforming members of the community are embarrassing and want us gone. They are to afraid that we might "belittle the cause". Those ABDL*s who can keep it in the bedroom want to keep ABDL* on the "down low" so they can have their discretion...

    It is disgusting that you people would preserve your discretion at the cost of an entire class of people.

    SIDE NOTE: When I use ALLCAPS or the word "you" I don't mean anyone at ADISC or ADISC, I mean the community as a whole.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Quote Originally Posted by ShyLittleBoy View Post
    I understand the concept but what I'm saying is that I think it's totally different then sexual identity or gender identity. Because with gender/sexuality you can "escape" what you believe that you are not. ie if you are straight you never have to be with the same sex romantically. Or if you identify as a boy (but you were born as a girl) you can go through therapy to become a boy(maybe not perfect I dont know the details, but in principle you can). But if I identify as being 10 years old there is no way I can escape my actual age. At least not yet.

    To me the two ideas are very different; not to say it is wrong.Just separate. That's just my opinion.
    Well technically you are incorrect. Very few transgender people can escape anything... Very few people can afford or want GRS. Transgender people are NOT ALL BINARY anyway. Not having surgery does not mean they are not trans. You have a fundamental lack of understanding for what transgender means. The entire point of being trans is that the PHYSICAL BODY does not equal GENDER IDENTITY. Being transgender has NOTHING to do with transitioning!

    Note* Again all caps or aggressive tone is not personal ShyLittleBoy. I am frustrated with a larger more general audience.
    Last edited by HogansHeroes; 18-Mar-2014 at 04:16. Reason: fixing quote tag

  7. #7

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    I see this is very much on your mind and although I do not relate to age-identity issues, I do understand your troubles as you have been detailed in your posts. I have always advocated that labels are just that, labels. An apple is an apple whether you knows its name or not. You are who you are, your labelling as agequeer is great if that is what you want. I would not consider myself an adult baby, diaper lover or anything like that in the real world. If someone asks me, I just say I am a kinky guy who likes to try different things. I understand you have a longing for acceptance, but what does this mean for you. Do you need an official title or condition to be diagnosed. I am not so sure about Adventurer's view on needing proof to accept things, although this is a grounded argument. I have come to be happy with who I am, whether anyone accepts it or not. You are not defined by your age, just your actions on this earth.

    You do seem to be creating a lot of boundaries for yourself and I would argue that not everyone who strays from mainstream society is going to be like another person who has also chosen a different path. We all take a journey, most stick to the highway and float through life at a pace laid out by society. Some of us take a back road or cut through a forest, we may find we travel the highway for a little while then veer off to another back road. Some never see the highway and only know dirt tracks and country lanes. I do not feel the need to be accepted by everyone or need people to identify me in a group. This is easy for me to say because I am a switch in the BDSM world and can be whoever or whatever I want, when I want. I think that as you continue your journey you may find some reasoning as eventually we all do. Maybe you are one of a kind and special, maybe you can still find happiness and be accepted in the way you appear to need.

    All I wish is that you do not give up and please look for help if you are in deep despair. There are many who will not judge you no matter what and also there are many that are willing to lend a friendly ear, even if they find it hard to relate. I am happy to listen and hope to help if I can.

  8. #8

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    I've been pondering your threads lately and I remembered reading this before you came up with a lot of these theories, definitions, ect.

    http://www.adisc.org/forum/ec-forum/...-wrong-me.html

    It doesn't seem your situation has improved a lot or the way it seems you are coping with it has been particularly fruitful.

    Have you tried seeing a counselor or a therapist yet?
    Last edited by Geno; 17-Mar-2014 at 00:16.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by DexxKizwizard View Post
    I see this is very much on your mind and although I do not relate to age-identity issues, I do understand your troubles as you have been detailed in your posts. I have always advocated that labels are just that, labels. An apple is an apple whether you knows its name or not. You are who you are, your labelling as agequeer is great if that is what you want. I would not consider myself an adult baby, diaper lover or anything like that in the real world. If someone asks me, I just say I am a kinky guy who likes to try different things. I understand you have a longing for acceptance, but what does this mean for you. Do you need an official title or condition to be diagnosed. I am not so sure about Adventurer's view on needing proof to accept things, although this is a grounded argument. I have come to be happy with who I am, whether anyone accepts it or not. You are not defined by your age, just your actions on this earth.

    You do seem to be creating a lot of boundaries for yourself and I would argue that not everyone who strays from mainstream society is going to be like another person who has also chosen a different path. We all take a journey, most stick to the highway and float through life at a pace laid out by society. Some of us take a back road or cut through a forest, we may find we travel the highway for a little while then veer off to another back road. Some never see the highway and only know dirt tracks and country lanes. I do not feel the need to be accepted by everyone or need people to identify me in a group. This is easy for me to say because I am a switch in the BDSM world and can be whoever or whatever I want, when I want. I think that as you continue your journey you may find some reasoning as eventually we all do. Maybe you are one of a kind and special, maybe you can still find happiness and be accepted in the way you appear to need.

    All I wish is that you do not give up and please look for help if you are in deep despair. There are many who will not judge you no matter what and also there are many that are willing to lend a friendly ear, even if they find it hard to relate. I am happy to listen and hope to help if I can.
    I don't feel the need to be accepted everywhere but I feel that somebody has to get the ball rolling. I can surround myself with people who love and accept me, but I feel guilty leaving others "hung out to dry". I am a part of LGTBQ+ club on my campus. We are very different than a lot of pride clubs in terms of being inclusive. I have grown accustomed to seeing all queer people getting along: asexual, trans, non-binary trans, bi, pan.... Most pride organizations in the world have a problem with excluding those individuals who they deem "undesirable to their image" and only care about cisgendered white gays and lesbians.

    Unfortunately, ADISC and the ABDL* community is not measuring up to the standards of inclusivity I am used to after my experiences in my organization. It is quite plain to me from the interactions I have had with other ABDL*s over the years that we cannot fit into only the 2 labels of "Adult Baby" and "Diaper Lover". The whole fetish/not fetish thing is too big of a gap to bridge... The community's answer to this problem is to plug their ears and refuse to acknowledge the other identites in the ABDL* umbrella. This behavior is divisive and prevents us from moving forward.

    There are others in the spectrum too:
    Littles
    Sissies
    Babyfurs
    Little Girls
    Age Non-Conformers

    The term "Adult Baby" represents at least 2 TOTALLY DIFFERENT types of people.
    Type 1: Acting like a baby turns them on
    Type 2: They consider themselves "Adults" who are also "Babies"

    Our community needs to get with the program.

    Look at this thread:
    http://www.adisc.org/forum/adult-bab...rder-hmmm.html

    I am not the only one who brings this up... In fact THE EARLIEST DOCUMENTED cases of infantilism in psychological studies involve individuals who identified as babies trapped in adult bodies.

    The proof is there.



    Adult Baby Syndrome and Age Identity Disorder: Comment on Kise and Nguyen (2011) - Springer

  10. #10

    Default

    I think this is the confusing part for me: If you are agequeer then you can choose when to act on your age-identity urges and when not to. For example, you wrote us a very mature post and used mature language very often. A child or toddler would be unable to express themselves so fluently and they would not be accessing an 18+ website or spending time on the family computer without a caregiver nearby.

    People will mock people for tons of things. Definitely, sucking a paci in public or wearing a onesie in public or holding a teddy in public will get some laughs or teasing or mocking. Some people will think it's weird and some people will think it's cute. Depends on the person. Some people will accept you and befriend you, and some people will never want to be friends with you. But people not being nice to you or not wanting to be your friend isn't discrimination. You realize, though, you can't make anyone in the world do what you want them to do, right? Some people just won't like you or accept you, some people will make rude comments, and that's just how the world works. Not just with Littles or ABs, but with lots of things.

    Discrimination is more for people who can't help what they are, like gay people who by all scientific studies have been born that way. They can't help it. Black people who are born with different skin pigmentation. Born that way. If you are just not qualified for a job, that's not discrimination. For example, I am not qualified to be a super model! I am just not 'perfect' enough and definitely I am way too short! But you can choose when to be little and when to be big, as demonstrated by the way you choose to use our boards. You never randomly make posts in a child's tone/voice or with baby-talk, not only because you know that's against the site rules, or maybe just because you do truly have the ability to say "I'll be my big self right now." So given that, if you walk into a job interview wearing overalls and sucking a binky I wouldn't hire you. You would seem like you have no impulse control and you would seem psychologically imbalanced. We'd lose potential clients or customers in a sales type of job, and you'd be a huge distraction in an office type of job. That's not discrimination. That's just making employment decisions.

    The reason that my ABDL side doesn't have to leave the bedroom is because I have control over what I do. My little side is fully nonsexual (like yours is), and my regression is a choice. I do not have to be my little side in public because I can do that privately. What great need is there to behave this way in public? There is a time and a place for everything.

    If one is unable to turn it off and on, or it happens against one's will, this would be more akin to dissociative identity disorder, or some other type of psychological issue. If this is what is going on with you, I would seek help, and I mean that honestly and truly. There is a serious problem if you can't turn it off and on. But from your ability to communicate with us here on the forum appropriately, I feel like you can, so then, I just have to ask, why is it a problem at all?

    You're right that age is a poor identifier of people's true maturity levels. You're also right that it's completely weird that at, say, 21 exactly they can legally have a beer but the day before they couldn't. That's just because of maintaining a society. We need laws and regulations to make it run smoothly. It makes our legal system sensible and gives citizens and law enforcement clear guidelines to follow. There would be many problems with such a big society and unclear rules like "drink whenever the person is responsible and mature enough."

    It sounds to me like this is just saying that you want to express your little-ness in public and not be mocked or ridiculed. It doesn't seem, at the moment (correct me if I'm wrong) that you actually do want to give up all rights to adulthood. It kind of sounds like you just want what you want when you want it. If you want to be on an 18+ site, then you're here. If you want to be watching cartoons, you're there. If you want to use your debit/credit card and buy a new pacifier for yourself online, you can do that as an adult and then suck on the pacifier as a toddler. I mean, you're not helpless in all of this.

    You seem to me to want the fun, good, nice adult things, and want the fun, good, nice child things. I bet you don't want to be under someone's full control 24/7 and be unable to buy a new game you thought was cool, or be unable to buy a new outfit. You don't want to have someone else tell you want to wear, what to eat, when you can and can't snack, who you can hang out with and who you can't, that you can never drive anywhere, that the cool new movie is too mature for you, or that you can't have your own money and be able to choose how to use it.

    I can understand why you don't want to date, marry or have sex if you are asexual. But, why do you not want to go to school and get a job? Is it just cause it's hard and it sucks? I mean, yeah, it's hard, and it sucks sometimes. Okay, a lot of the time! That's just life. Do you also not want to do chores, clean, or anything else that sucks? This to me sounds more like a spoiled attitude than a person who is being discriminated against. I also see this attitude when you are demanding that other people do all this work for your fight. It's not their fight, or our fight. It's your fight. It's a very spoiled thing to assume that just because you say "I want to be fully accepted and treated as Little in public, now!" everyone has to jump up and obey your command. I'm really getting a big Veruca Salt vibe from these kinds of posts and your replies to others. I realize that's not nice to say, but I think you need to hear it. I think you need to think about it. Are you just shunning all crappy responsibility? Sometimes it comes across that way in your posts. So if that is not true at all, then please let me know otherwise.

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