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Thread: Suicide, a constitutional civil right?

  1. #1
    Muse

    Default Suicide, a constitutional civil right?

    I realize this is an especially touchy subject of people in this community, but I am very curious of others opinions on the matter.

    I personally believe that everyone has the freedom to choose what they do with their life, even if that choice is death. We own our bodies, and as long as we don't infringe on others rights, or cause physical harm we should be able to do whatever we choose.

    Yes, someone committing suicide would obviously effect and hurt people around them, but we shouldn't forcefully stop someone from killing themselves just because we personally disagree with what they are doing, for any reason.

    I'm not saying I condone or think that killing yourself is a good option, in most cases its probably better to tough it out.

    I would do everything I could to convince a loved one, or anyone for that matter to not kill themselves, but I would never try to force them to not do so.

  2. #2

    Default

    I think it's a very selfish thing to do. Having heard of a parent of a relative swallow a bullet and all the pain it caused my him and his relatives, it was a horrible thing to do. No consideration for his children and their feelings at all!

  3. #3
    Muse

    Default



    Quote Originally Posted by zipperless View Post
    I think it's a very selfish thing to do. Having heard of a parent of a relative swallow a bullet and all the pain it caused my him and his relatives, it was a horrible thing to do. No consideration for his children and their feelings at all!
    It is a selfish thing to do, but its also selfish of someone to force someone not to do so. You also have to take into consideration that the person who commits suicide is also most likely in a great deal of pain as well. And maybe they did it to protect their family from that pain, or from what they might've become.

    I'm more concerned on the opinions of whether its a civil right, regardless of the effects of the action in any situation.

  4. #4

    Default

    Personally, I think it's the person's right to end their life if they so choose. Now of course I don't advocate senseless suicide or suicide in general, and I'd certainly try to talk someone out of it if I could, but I believe in a "right to die."

    Struggling with depression and even suicidal thoughts myself, I'm of course going to be biased on this subject in a way that makes me feel better about the situation. However, people end their lives for a reason. If it's depression based, then they do it because the pain and suffering is just too great to bear any longer. If the person has no one in their life, they're struggling just to get though the day financially and there's really not any way for them to get out of the terrible slump their in, then I'd easily understand why they would have chosen to take such a drastic and permanent action.

    If I had lost a limb, such as a leg or an arm, I don't think I could keep going. I wouldn't want to keep going. My life would have to take such a drastic change and I'd have to adapt to something that's entirely different from how I've been living my life from the time of birth to the time of the incident. It's too much to handle. I couldn't function the way I'd want to if I couldn't walk, or if I couldn't hold things with both hands. I couldn't do what I love to do. Every hobby in my life that I get enjoyment out of would cease to be possible for me to do. That sounds terrible. That sounds like a worse fate than death. I'd understand it if someone wanted their life to end because of that.

    People say that suicide is selfish, and to a degree, I'd agree with them. However, it's also selfish for the other party to want to force the person who can't bear life anymore to continue living. Selfishness isn't always a bad thing, and the party wanting them the person to continue living isn't doing a bad thing by any means to want to person to go on, but the person who wants his life to be over with is wanting it because he sees no point in continuing, or something is hurting him so badly, either emotionally or physically, that he'd rather everything end just to get away from it. Take cluster headaches for example. Those are supposed to be some of the absolute worst pains for anyone to ever deal with, and it's so damn painful that people very oftenly take their own lives instead of try to deal with them. They're that bad. People would rather die than feel that amount of pain, and I wouldn't blame them. I don't blame them. If I had that great of an amount of pain, I'd probably want it to stop too, even if it costs my life.

    I believe that the person has a right to choose if their life is worth continuing or not. They have a right to end it when they choose to. However, sometimes suicidal actions come from mental illnesses or defects, in which case, it isn't the person's decision to due so per se, and is rather brought on by the defect. Depression is an example of this as well. Most suicidally depressed people are only suicidal because of the depression. Once that's over with, so are the suicidal thoughts and tendencies. This sounds like it contradicts my first paragraph about depression, but it doesn't quite. The first paragraph is about how I'd understand why someone may want to do it if they were in such a terrible slump like that, with no one to lean on or anyone to go to for help or aid, or to just talk to, even if it's because of the depression. However, a teenager probably has those things. Most suicidal teenagers aren't really open about their struggles with depression to their parents, or are dealing with the ever notorious bullying at their school.

    I remember reading a news article not too long ago about a teenager who had a genius IQ. Whether or not you believe IQ's are an actual measure of someone's intelligence is irrelevant. His IQ was incredibly high. He wrote a list of the pro's and con's of life, and ultimately decided that life was simply not worth it. According to his parents and friends, he never showed signs of depression. He was a very happy-go-lucky and upbeat person. He took his own life with his father's shotgun. He may have been depressed, and he probably was, as teenagers seem to try their damnest to hide emotions and thoughts and feelings, but he decided that life was just not worth it. He was applying or both Yale and Harvard. He could have gone on to do amazing things with his level of intelligence, but for some reason, he decided that life just wasn't worth it. The story is interesting to me, because again, according to his friends and family, he was one of the happiest people they knew. It makes me wonder what drove him to ending his own life. Was he really in pain? If he had depression, was it honestly that bad? Or did he really, honestly just see no point in life? This news article/story really has nothing to do with anything, but I figured I'd throw it out there, since it interests me a great deal.

    Anyways, tl;dr: I believe in the right to die, so long as you're not destroying everyone around you and you're not ending your life over something so trivial as a girlfriend breaking up with you. As long as you have an honest reason to, I'd understand perfectly and wouldn't hold it against you. (You, of course, being in the general sense and not directing my statement towards anyone in particular).
    Last edited by KuroCat; 16-Dec-2013 at 02:52.

  5. #5

    Default



    Quote Originally Posted by Muse View Post
    I'm more concerned on the opinions of whether its a civil right, regardless of the effects of the action in any situation.
    Sure. Do what you want, but there's ramifications.

  6. #6

    Default

    I do think it's a civil right. It's my life, and no one can tell me what to do with it. I've been suicidal in the past and... if anyone had suggested that they might have stopped me, I may well have taken the chance before I lost the ability to decide for myself. I have a bit of an issue with the idea of losing control.

    Not everyone is surrounded by loving friends and family, but in any case so, I don't think it could be considered "selfish" to make the ultimate act of self-sacrifice! If you haven't experienced severe depression or anxiety then you couldn't possibly understand how devastating it can be. Surrounding friends and family demanding that the potential suicidee should live are selfish too, for expecting the person to suffer for their benefit.

    And in cases of terminal illness, I think society has a goddamn obligation to help people in distress who want to end their lives. Technically it's illegal in this country unless it happens to be a "coincidental" side-effect of pain-killers. But still, I'm pretty sure that both of my parents were given substantial doses of heroin (or some other similar form of morphine) in hospital to "put them out of their misery" at whatever point the doctors decided was check-out time...

    However, if anyone reading this is thinking about suicide, please understand that there are many people out there who really can help. I'd been depressed for years... decades, even. And I never understood what anxiety was until I realised... that's just what I call "being conscious"! I couldn't even begin to consider the possibility that every second of life wouldn't be more of the same continually enduring torture. It was tricky trying to find the right person to speak to, but eventually I found a psychotherapist who I see twice a week (50mins a time) and it's really helped me to understand the thought processes that I go through... and how much fun this life could be if you could do whatever you wanted... which, actually, you can! (Limitations may apply!) I'm not there yet, but I'm much better than I was, and I haven't felt suicidal for ages. So... there really is hope. The upshot is... you've got nothing to lose by deciding to stick around for a bit, and you can always use "Plan B" if you need it... (strange thinking, perhaps, but it kept me going).

    Links to suicide crisis phone lines: ---> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...e_crisis_lines

    - - - Updated - - -



    Quote Originally Posted by Muse View Post
    It is a selfish thing to do, but its also selfish of someone to force someone not to do so. You also have to take into consideration that the person who commits suicide is also most likely in a great deal of pain as well.
    I totally agree.



    Quote Originally Posted by Muse View Post
    And maybe they did it to protect their family from that pain, or from what they might've become.
    Um... I'm not sure... How could killing yourself protect your family, or from what you might have become... It's like saying that someone might decide to murder their future self because they didn't like them(selves)! You can't fear what you might become (unless it causes harm to others, in which case -- get help now!).

  7. #7

    Default

    I lost my partner to suicide when he was twenty two years old. So young and so much lost potential. It still hurts.

    It doesn't matter what I think about whether or not a person has the legal or moral right to commit suicide. If a person is really determined to end his or her life, there are no laws or punishments that will dissuade that person from completing the act. Having lived with the pain, I am more interested in what we can do to identify the causes of suicide, how we can educate communities to better respond with appropriate services, and how we can assist the survivors. I never blamed my partner for the horrible, lonely depressing years that followed his death, I only wish I knew why he never opened up to me.

  8. #8
    Muse

    Default



    Quote Originally Posted by tiny View Post
    I do think it's a civil right. It's my life, and no one can tell me what to do with it. I've been suicidal in the past and... if anyone had suggested that they might have stopped me, I may well have taken the chance before I lost the ability to decide for myself. I have a bit of an issue with the idea of losing control.

    Not everyone is surrounded by loving friends and family, but in any case so, I don't think it could be considered "selfish" to make the ultimate act of self-sacrifice! If you haven't experienced severe depression or anxiety then you couldn't possibly understand how devastating it can be. Surrounding friends and family demanding that the potential suicidee should live are selfish too, for expecting the person to suffer for their benefit.

    And in cases of terminal illness, I think society has a goddamn obligation to help people in distress who want to end their lives. Technically it's illegal in this country unless it happens to be a "coincidental" side-effect of pain-killers. But still, I'm pretty sure that both of my parents were given substantial doses of heroin (or some other similar form of morphine) in hospital to "put them out of their misery" at whatever point the doctors decided was check-out time...

    However, if anyone reading this is thinking about suicide, please understand that there are many people out there who really can help. I'd been depressed for years... decades, even. And I never understood what anxiety was until I realised... that's just what I call "being conscious"! I couldn't even begin to consider the possibility that every second of life wouldn't be more of the same continually enduring torture. It was tricky trying to find the right person to speak to, but eventually I found a psychotherapist who I see twice a week (50mins a time) and it's really helped me to understand the thought processes that I go through... and how much fun this life could be if you could do whatever you wanted... which, actually, you can! (Limitations may apply!) I'm not there yet, but I'm much better than I was, and I haven't felt suicidal for ages. So... there really is hope. The upshot is... you've got nothing to lose by deciding to stick around for a bit, and you can always use "Plan B" if you need it... (strange thinking, perhaps, but it kept me going).

    Links to suicide crisis phone lines: ---> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...e_crisis_lines

    - - - Updated - - -



    I totally agree.



    Um... I'm not sure... How could killing yourself protect your family, or from what you might have become... It's like saying that someone might decide to murder their future self because they didn't like them(selves)! You can't fear what you might become (unless it causes harm to others, in which case -- get help now!).
    The fear that they might become out of control and hurt the ones they love, either directly or indirectly.

  9. #9

    Default



    Quote Originally Posted by starrunner View Post
    I lost my partner to suicide when he was twenty two years old. So young and so much lost potential. It still hurts.

    It doesn't matter what I think about whether or not a person has the legal or moral right to commit suicide. If a person is really determined to end his or her life, there are no laws or punishments that will dissuade that person from completing the act. Having lived with the pain, I am more interested in what we can do to identify the causes of suicide, how we can educate communities to better respond with appropriate services, and how we can assist the survivors. I never blamed my partner for the horrible, lonely depressing years that followed his death, I only wish I knew why he never opened up to me.
    lm sorry some times we dont open up to any one its our own demon's .
    My friend killed himself in the 80s it was so sad miss him still.
    Hugs

  10. #10

    Default



    Quote Originally Posted by Muse View Post
    The fear that they might become out of control and hurt the ones they love, either directly or indirectly.

    Oh the beast in me, is caged by frail and fragile bars...


    When they are depressed or suicidal, people often feel that the people around them would be better off in their absence - I doubt this is ever true, except in cases where people are actually abusive to their family or friends. However abusers rarely seem to feel guilty enough to kill themselves...

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