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Thread: Another Philosophical Question

  1. #1

    Default Another Philosophical Question

    Lately I have been saying "Embrace the chaos" as a way to deal with this crazy world. Somebody asked me why I no longer have faith in the order of the world and society. Then I was pondering, is there really order in society? Or have we been living under the fallacy of such claim but in reality been living in total chaos? There are many points I can make with this.

    The first is religion. A universe of order would suggest a higher being, right? Possibly that everything happened, happening, and will happen have been planned long ago and only destiny/fate have control of such. A universe of chaos suggests that everything happens coincidentally. At the right time under the right circumstance, the universe and everything in it was created amidst chaos. Even the formation of planet Earth was in the middle of chaos. So we can ask the question are we living in a universe of order or chaos, instead of the whole science vs religion debate, I believe it should be such.

    Also, another point I was considering is a little intricate, government. This may also involve differing opinions and such as well as new world order conspiracy theories and all. If we are living in a society of complete order, on the extreme it would be complete dictatorship. Think it. One person ruling over all, their word is law, it would seem to be complete control when in reality it would be complete chaos. Much like anarchy. No one is ruled by anyone but themselves. They have their own version of what is right and wrong and their own views of their own laws. It would be complete chaos, but it seems that would be the order of it.

    I'm just pondering this. In complete order there is chaos. And in complete chaos there is order. But what is order/chaos. So if the definitions of order/chaos are being questioned by many different people, then are we living in a world so deep into order it is chaos, or so deep into chaos it is order? Thoughts?

  2. #2


    This is an interesting thread especially after the political compass thread yesterday.

    Is there really order in society, or are we living in total chaos?

    I do see the quandary of this question, but I do feel that because of social convents we do have "social order". Because of the complexity of global politics there is a fogginess to true vision of global peace and harmony. This is best seen in the resent outcome of the UN response to the use of chemical weapons in Syria.

    If one looks at the "Chaos theory" there is boundaries that even chaos functions under and can be defined. But there again controlled chaos is still organized and in the absolute definition of chaos any restrain is not true chaos.

    So I would have to say that yes we do have social order, and I will expand on this in my final summation.

    Are we living in a universe of order or chaos, instead of whole science vs religion?

    This is a good question for the conundrum that I had to embrace when I was working on my BS in Biology.
    If one approaches this with an open mind the personal belief can be found and justified.

    If I am correct about the laws of thermal dynamics everything is moving from order to disorder. The thing that is hard to grasp in the whole picture is you have to track the energy to see that the evolution of complex compounds is actually moving to disorder by the use of energy to move up, even if energy can be created through chemosynthesis processes.

    Whoever it seems to be a contradiction to go from the enormous energy of the dense matter of the initial big bang to the universe as we see it now.
    So my point is that there is evidence for the universe of order.

    But to address the question of the science-vs-religion aspect the whole picture has to be analyzed and neither party allow this to happen.
    Science is based on evidence based foundations that can be studied, questioned, restudied and re-questioned until a consensus of data is accepted.
    Religion is based on belief of what is said. Based on philosophical practices that are difficult to apply measures of "truth", and all to often have controversy as to who or when something is said/written. Also there is always the question of what has not been said or shown because of ???????
    The thing that I found in my personal philosophy is that the is not a one or the other, but actually a spectrum for the lack of a better model.

    Again I will address this in the final summation.

    Government; Society of complete order, complete dictatorship, or complete chaos? (If I am understanding the convolutions of the thought here).

    The problem with this topic is the development of the social pockets on the whole planet.
    First question is who is the advanced culture and who is the lowest undeveloped culture? The Chinese, the Romans, the Greeks, the Egyptians, the Normans, etc. ????

    The social order is developed by the covenants that founders of the culture established and the acceptance and/or adaptation that following generations followed. The problem arises as these pockets of societies expand and interacts with the other societies that they encounter.

    So to stop beating around the "family tree"; a complete dictatorship is not practical because that would mean complete acceptance of the power by the entire mass, and the ability of the power to be past from one generation to the next. There is way to many examples of the inability for this to occur. Complete chaos is not an option either because this would lead to total destruction of the population or the establishment of a complete dictator which would not last either.

    Final thoughts on order or chaos?

    So in summation, if I am understanding the whole question correctly and after two days of mulling this over in my own mind, this is my final answer.

    I do believe in God and that the universe is his creation. It is bound by physical laws and that there are aspects of scientific ability that are outside of our comprehension.
    The creationist are to busy trying to create God in their own image. While the scientist are to busy attempting to get to the same level as God. If God created the heavens and the earth then would it not appear in a "Big Bang"?

    Then as the planets developed and congealed the night and day would develop, along with the water collecting and the dry land forming?

    Then let there be life?
    The scientist can see the primordial parts form; the protein matrix form around clay particulars, and the mRNA and eventually DNA strands occur. But the transition from coincidental organic chemical reactions to biochemical stability reaction is from a higher power then our comprehension.

    With this is mind I also believe in evolution with divine intervention. Man was created through evolution and not from dust or clay. This is based on some evidence that I have from my stay with the Hopi and "rumors" involving the story of Teresa being the first woman not Eve.

    Because of the social structure and covenant that have been formed a "government" has been formed in multiple pockets through out the world. Because of the strong will of each group to be "The Chosen" culture, global strife continues to this day. The "Western Culture" is inflicting there will on the world and the Muslim culture is going to show everyone that they are right. Meanwhile other cultures adhere to the family hierarchy, yet another calls it "Tribal Law".

    Until we the "human" species come to realize that "our invisible guy" is the same as "their invisible guy", then the global social order is going to look like chaos, or the collapse of the "single dictatorship".

    To really stick my neck out for a good whack, I believe that the universe is finite and that "God" is doing an experiment in which he is doing things and then sitting back and seeing what happens. Every so often he gives the mix a poke to see what happens or adjust something to guild it in a new direction.

    The question is this: Is he the only supreme being or is he in a class room with multiple experiment tanks and other "Gods"?
    Last edited by egor; 14-Dec-2013 at 05:45. Reason: adding material

  3. #3


    Order and chaos are two sides of the same coin my friend. The way I like to think about life is that nothing is ever as it seems and every constant is bound to break at some point. Order and chaos are only words that we as humans use to try to explain life to ourselves. Who is to say that what you think is chaos is not order to me? This can be seen in how a group of individuals reading the same book can come up with varying interpretations.

    Religion is not a means to an end, it is the path given to us to begin to understand a higher state of being, it is meant to invoke a higher plain of thinking and understanding of the energies that surround us and live within us.

  4. #4


    I just recently came to my own realization that life is a crapshoot. Nothing is fair, nothing is just, everthing is corrupt to the core. We have classes of people whose objectives are directly opposed. The government is biased towards one group. The media is owned by the same group. Everything is a constant tug of war.

    On a local level, I recently started a new job in the same industry, but this businesses employees have money. So do their clients. They have a completely different set of concerns to anybody I have ever met.

    This class of people are where they are largely by birthright, and our society is rigged so that they stay there and everyone else stays in their respective place.

    Even the law and justice system. It has to pander to people who want retributive justice rather than rehabiliative. People who would see a person rot for a single mistake. There are all these opposing forces vying against each other, the world cannot possibly be in order.

    And after that lot, lets not even mention religion.

    I have a very rational mind, for the longest time I tended not to feel things, I had a Dmt trip about a year ago and it opened my eyes, I had been intellectualizing all my emotions, thinking them rather than feeling. I realized that was why I could see things clearly when others seemed completely nuts and irrational. Healthy humans are animals that operate on emotion more than thought, and while thats the case, the world will always be chaos.

    Tl:dr - Embracing the chaos of the world is the only way to survive it. Any order that does exist is not in your favour. The moment you "lose faith in the order of the world and society" is the moment you are free to see it for what it truly is and to start trying it make it work for you. In My opinion at least.

  5. #5


    My views on it is that there is a knowledge that puts chaos into order. Understand the knowledge and apply it. You have utopia. Keep that knowledge, then you can use that knowledge to create chaos. You start to understand that everything then becomes backwards or inverted, sound like Satanist rule the world? In the words of Michael Ellner “Just look at us. Everything is backwards, everything is upside down. Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, psychiatrists destroy minds, scientists destroy truth, major media destroys information, religions destroy spirituality and governments destroy freedom.”

    It's called soft killing. Today you go out and see all these movies with huge monsters that trigger our animal instincts, something you have when a threat is in front of you. But the biggest threat isn't a monster coming to eat you, no its the monster that you can't see that eats at you life until you can't sustain standing anymore.

    Do you know that we have the ability to heal ourselves? That the body has all the ingredients to cure every disease, sickness there is without the aid of pharmaceuticals? So you ask why can't we? Simple, and I'll explain it through an example.

    Do you run your car constantly without changing it's filters and changing the oil? No, you service it so it can continue to do its job. Your body is the same way. The average American eats whatever they please, then pays for either with headaches, stomach pains, heartburn, ect because they don't know their body. But they take these warning flags as "Ah shit that hurts I'll pop a Tylenol and that'll relieve my pain". The signal is then terminated and the pain stops. Good right?

    WRONG, that signal was a warning the body gives out to an individual that tells them to change their habits or bigger things would start happening. So what happens the pain has to be expressed somewhere else in hopes of something being done. So your head starts to hurt... Same answer. After a while of this happening, your body starts to get desperate so it comes through as vomiting, or diarrhea.

    What the answer to that Pepto. So, then your body starts to go critical. The immune system begins to shut down. Sickness becomes regular then BOOM you get cancer. The American story of today. Someone else died of cancer. Cancer. Cancer. WHY? Because they didn't listen to their body!

    You want to know why they don't tell you you can heal? M.O.N.E.Y...

    Just one example of the soft kill that's going on

  6. #6


    I always lesn toward the side of order, not so much pre ordained but controlled. There are just too many variables that have to be a certain way to the point where we, statisticly, shouldn't exist yet we do. kind of like how bees physically cant fly, but they do. I don't believe in destiny because I find comfort in the fact that I am made by my choices and that no entity made me make those choices I do however believe that something made me or rather set the conditions that allowed me to be made. Man this is good stuff makes my head hurt but in a good way.

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