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Thread: Misconceptions about ABDL* and ABDL*-phobia

  1. #1

    Default Misconceptions about ABDL* and ABDL*-phobia

    Purpose: Need help spotting grammatical errors and to check for clarity/word choice (I am particularly concerned with my explanation about ABDL* does not equal pedophillia) Also if anyone has any stories relating to ABDL*-phobia I would love to hear them.

    Oh and no arguing about whether ABDL*-phobia exists PM me instead of clogging this thread.
    And just so you know...
    this is how I feel about debating right now....

    Click image for larger version. 

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    SO DO NOT TURN THIS INTO A DEBATE ABOUT ARE ABDL*S DISCRIMNATED BLA BLA BLA. WE CAN AGREE TO DISAGREE.


    Thank You.

    From my website:

    ABDL*-phobia is the spectrum of negative attitudes and feelings towards ABDL*s. ABDL-phobia can be manifested as: aversion, stigmas, negative attitudes, contempt, hatred, or violence. ABDL*-phobia stems from misconceptions and stereotypes.


    Common Misconceptions about ABDL*s:

    1. ABDL Is The Result Of Poor Parenting/Abuse:

    •Although a lot of ABDL people have reported less than ideal childhoods, it is not the norm. The sad truth is that child abuse is an all too common occurrence across all demographics. There is no relationship between parenting and having ABDL* children.

    2. ABDL Is A Mental Illness:

    •Fetishism is mentioned briefly in the Diagnostic Statistical Manual, but ABDL*s were not mentioned. So technically those who consider ABDL anything other than a fetish do not fall under the auspices of the definition found in the DSM anyway. Furtheremore, for a fetish to be a mental illness, individuals would have to experience distress or disability as a result of the fetish. This is simply not the case for ABDL*s.

    •ABDLs are typically well-adjusted successful individuals. Our unique behavior is so benign that most people have never even heard of us. We just tend to pass right under everyone’s radar.

    3. We Want Anything To Do With Children:

    •People sometimes assume that having a fetish for an infantile object equates to liking children. This is untrue... Adult babies want to be children, not to attack them. Actually many ABDL*s are more likely to be protective of children than the average person. We identify as children or childlike people ourselves so preying on children would be akin to preying on ourselves.

    •Diaper lovers, especially those who gain sexual satisfaction from diapers, can be sometimes pegged as pedophiles. The entire point of diapers being sexy is the thought of an adult being "naughty" by wearing a diaper or just diapers by themselves as an independent object. Another problem with the misconception of ABDL*s being after children is that diapers are not exclusively for babies. In truth, almost as many adult diapers are worn as baby diapers. Actually sales of adult diapers in Japan have topped those intended for children as of 2012. As an adult who has to wear ADULT DIAPERS for a medical reason, I find it extremely insulting for someone to associate diapers only with children. Having a medical issue and wearing diapers does not make me any less of a man! Our society really needs to stop stigmatizing diapers, they are fact of life for certain people young and old. Having a fetish for diapers is just like having a fetish for anything else (feet, balloons, socks,...). It is just being sexually aroused by an inanimate object a not a person. That is the entire point of it being called a fetish in the first place. If DLs were interested in children then it wouldn't even be considered a fetish...

    4. ABDLs are just a bunch of dysfunctional freaks who need to grow up....

    •ABDLs come from all walks of life. We are just like you. The majority of the community is very closeted. Chances are we could be your lawyer, doctor, gardener, whatever… We are productive members of society who are not hurting anyone. Being ABDL does nothing to diminish an individual's ability function in society or the workplace. This misconception is a thin veil made of ignorance used to hide hatred.






    Common Types of ABDL*-phobia:


    Hate Speech: By far the most common abuse suffered by ABDL*s. ABDL*s are sometimes called names or threatened. Popular insults thrown at ABDL+ individuals perverts, pedophiles, insane, ect.

    Cyber-bullying: Most ABDL*s are closeted and only share their ABDL* on the internet. Most ABDL*s are able to sufficiently mask their personal identities while online, however there have been numerous instances of individuals who have been harassed and even outed by bullies on the internet. Online ABDL* communities are often plagued by "trolls", people who participate in online discussions with the intent of angering or abusing others through insulting or explosive derrogatory comments. Seeing as most ABDL*-phobia is perpetrated by cowards, the internet provides the perfect mask of anonymity for bullies.

    Child Abuse: The term "Adult Baby" is a misnomer. Many ABDL*s have self-identified as ABDL* in their child and teen years. Most have had ABDL* impact their childhood in some way. Almost all ABDL*s have had the fact that they are ABDL* thrown in their face by their parents at least once. A few parents have used threats and physical violence to deter ABDL* behavior. In an abusive household, being ABDL* is a liability for the abused individual, just one more weak spot for an abuser to target.


    Infighting/ Internalized ABDL*-phobia:
    Surprisingly, a great deal of ABDL*-phobia actually has its origins within the ABDL* community itself. ABDL* is a spectrum that encompasses a wide variety of people. Historicallly the ABDL community was a fetish community, its origins traced back to the popularization of latex pornography of the 70s. Later, less sexual/non-sexual ABDL*s came into the scene. The rift between these two groups of ABDL*s has lead to infighting amongst the ABDL* community.

    Homophobia: Homophobic people may accidentally confuse ABDL*s with members of the LGTBQ community.
    As a result ABDL*s are victims of all the typical attacks aimed at the LGTBQ community. While all ABDL individuals are not necessarily LGTBQ, many ABDLs do identify as LGTBQ in addition to being ABDL*. Non-gender conforming ABDL*s face many of the same negative reactions as the transgender community. Some people can't seem to handle the idea of a biological male running around in a dress and carrying around their dolly.


    Violence: just like any other minority, ABDL* people are victims of violence. Those ABDLs who are "out" can be targeted for dressing or acting differently. There have been very few "out" ABDLs (as of 2013), some have been assaulted for walking down the street with their teddy bear. So few ABDLs are out that it is difficult to gauge the scale of violence towards ABDL*s currently. In the future this may become a larger issue. As a general rule of thumb: if it is not safe for a person to be gender non-conforming in a particular place or situation, then it is not safe to be an openly ABDL* person.

    Employment: Damaging one's prospects for employment is probably the number one reason cited for deciding not to come out of the closet as an ABDL*. ABDL*s have had their employment terminated for being ABDL*. It is not safe for out of the closet ABDL* people to pursue certain career paths, especially those that involve contact with children. Additionally, some ABDL* individuals who are also incontinent have faced difficulty over wearing diapers at the jobs. Even though these individuals have a legitimate medical they may mocked or ostracized for wearing diapers. Those who are wrongfully terminated may not exercise their rights because they fear being outed as ABDL*s.

    Property Destruction: Most ABDL-phobia is underhand and cowardly. The typical ABDL-phobe will not physically attack an ABDL or even do anything "to their face", phobes often try to harm an ABDL when the individual's back is turned. An example would be taking an ABDL*s teddy bear and throwing it in the garbage while no ones looking or "keying" their car. Abusive parents have been known to gather their children's stuffed animals and throw them in bonfires.

    Extortion: Closeted ABDL* people are sometimes at risk of being by their fear of being outed. Most ABDL* gatherings have a specific guidelines for privacy, however sensitive information such as names and photos can be stolen under rare circumstances. This information can then be used to blackmail individuals.

  2. #2

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    Here is my spell/grammatical check (I found several errors). I also trimmed redundant sections.
    Most of this was not written in the third person, yet that one section of concern to you meanders on too long with personal quips. It reads like a rant, not an informational exploration of the issue. Other sections also had this issue. If you want to bring personal experience in, it would be better for a biography or other section. It would also help if you had citations. The "popularization of latex pornography in the 70's," for example, is news to me. Having those citations makes you sound like a trusted, solid source.

    You could expand on this greatly as some key issues are overlooked, or flat out ignored.

    I also changed word choice. You're overall message and conclusions are unchanged. Your headers and organization could be tweaked, though.


    Last edited by Geno; 14-Jul-2013 at 17:01.

  3. #3

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    It is a pet-peeve of mine when people try to cut off an obvious line of counterargument by fiat like this simply because they disagree with it.

    If it's a good enough line of argument that you feel the need to cut it off, then it's a good enough argument both to get a fair hearing should people want to make it and a good enough line of argument that you ought to be directly addressing it when writing an article on the topic.

  4. #4

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    "The "popularization of latex pornography in the 70's," for example, is news to me. Having those citations makes you sound like a trusted, solid source." -Geno



    Actually this piece of info is kind of irrelevant here. I will probably remove this line.

    The Birth of the ABDL Community

    That page is really cool. Had a hell of a time finding it. Understanding infantilism is a veritable gold mine but it is really chaotic. That page was last updated in April 2012. That site has not changed in 5 years. Kind of sad. And some asshat got bittergrey banned from wikipedia. If I remember correctly, he was the one who fixed the ABDL page so that we were no longer considered a type of pedophillia.

    Anyway thanks for the revisions. May I used them?

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverSmall
    "The "popularization of latex pornography in the 70's," for example, is news to me. Having those citations makes you sound like a trusted, solid source." -Geno

    Actually this piece of info is kind of irrelevant here. I will probably remove this line.

    The Birth of the ABDL Community
    Well it's not only irrelevant, it's also cited wrong! After reading that article, it was describing an AB/DL submission mag with included rubber fetishism, and it had nothing to do with latex besides the author's name. So it's not even a correct analysis overall of that article.

    Since we're on the subject of citations and evidence, these are other glaring examples:



    Another problem with the misconception of ABDL*s is that diapers are not exclusively for babies. In truth, almost as many adult diapers are worn as baby diapers. Actually sales of adult diapers in Japan have topped those intended for children as of 2012.
    I'm not exactly sure what your trying to get at by saying "diapers are not exclusively for babies" as if to passively suggest people of different "age identities" use them, or it's just a normal occurrence for non incontinent people. Then to correlate that with some statistic about Japan? Thankfully using Google, I found the article you cited: In Rapidly Aging Japan, Adult Diaper Sales Are About to Surpass Baby Diapers - Adam Pasick - The Atlantic



    Japan's rapidly aging population is producing some interesting new business opportunities, including a booming market for adult diapers.
    According to the article, Japan's aging population includes a lot of incontinent people. Which is why the sale of them has increased there. Using incontinent people to somehow back "diapers are not exclusive for babies" is somehow a misconception about AB/DLs as a whole, makes no sense whatsoever. The majority of AB/DLs are not incontinent either. Some wear for stress relieving purposes from time to time, but that's not frankly a medical reason. If you're hope is to have them accepted as a fashion statement of one's ABness, well, that's a different affair.

    These need to be cited from whatever place you found them. I hope they are not made up examples. You make it sound like these are normal occurrences.



    some have been assaulted for walking down the street with their teddy bear.


    Abusive parents have been known to gather their children's stuffed animals and throw them in bonfires.
    The "have been known" language suggests this has happened more than once. So I'm confused.



    Later, less sexual/non-sexual ABDL*s came into the scene. The rift between these two groups of ABDL*s has lead to infighting among the ABDL* community.
    No where in Bittergrey's article is this suggested. This sounds more like an observation of experience in this forum. So not only is this unsubstantiated, it's validity rests solely on a small anecdote.



    Fetishism is mentioned briefly in the Diagnostic Statistical Manual, but ABDL*s were not mentioned. So technically those who consider ABDL anything other than a fetish do not fall under the auspices of the definition found in the DSM anyway. Furthermore, for a fetish to be a mental illness, individuals would have to experience distress or disability as a result of the fetish. This is simply not the case for ABDL*s.
    You need to take the time to re-write this one with my feedback in mind. It's a mess.

    Once more you should probably take the time to explain what "ABDL*" and "ABDL+" signifies. You use them interchangeably and I'm not sure what the difference is or what they even mean.

    You may use my edits as you please, but I only ask you take some of my feedback to heart when writing further. If I had received this as an article for here, I would instruct you to re-write this and take the time to substantiate your assertions. You can make an argument for whatever, but you have to make it solid and thorough. What I've shown to you should be a big wake up call that you need to not only use your sources correctly and understand them, but cite them properly in the text. So far, you've used all your sources wrong, or just didn't use them effectively. This is why I've been debating you on your writings.

    It's my opinion you should re-write this and really take the time to understand your sources. I'm willing to work with you on it as well if you would like, only if your wanting to make the kind of concerted effort I'd expect no less under the standards here.
    Last edited by Geno; 14-Jul-2013 at 17:33.

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