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Thread: Proper argument and debate fallacies poster

  1. #1

    Default Proper argument and debate fallacies poster

    Considering how much the back and forth arguments occur here in the mature topics forum together with how passionate some people are in trying to defend their positions, I thought posting a link to this would be appropriate.

    Rhetological Fallacies

    Does anyone else find this good to have here or do you think it is a lost cause?

  2. #2

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    I think it would better to have a motto of: No one is ever "wrong" we all just have different life experiences that give us all unique, and at times conflicting perspectives.

    There needs to be less stepping on each others feet. I feel like I started a thread and everyone started saying I equated ABDL* with LGTBQ*. Suddenly a thread about being an ally for ABDL*s became why ABDL* issues do not measure up to LGTBQ* issues and therefore do not exist.

    It would probably be wise to side-step all LGTBQ*=ABDL* arguments in the future. Ultimately and irrefutably, ABDL* individuals face their own stigmas and negative attitudes that are irrespective of LGTBQ* issues. Furthermore, the ABDL* community can learn many things by observing the issues and solutions encountered by the LGTBQ* community.

    In response to the fallacies. We need to just not have such hot debates. We are all right from our own perspectives, however some people are less comfortable agreeing to disagree.
    Ultimately staying on topic would be good.
    Last edited by ForeverSmall; 10-Jul-2013 at 23:42.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by AnalogRTO View Post
    Does anyone else find this good to have here or do you think it is a lost cause?
    I have long since given up on internet debating. Trust me, as a former competitive debater and a lawyer, the number of non sequiturs you see on web forums irks me too... but the war on bad logic is even more of a lost cause than the war on bad grammar or bad typing

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverSmall View Post
    I think it would better to have a motto of: No one is ever "wrong" we all just have different life experiences that give us all unique, and at times conflicting perspectives.[snipped]
    I can't say I agree and it strikes me as the [different life experiences that give us all unique, and at times conflicting perspectives] tack to take for a forum that wishes to deal constructively with ideas. Not all opinions are created equally, and if you can't support it, there's no reason for anyone to give it any credence. I think your heart is in the right place but it takes a bit more than just heart.

  5. #5

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    AHAhaHAHAHA:



    burden of proof: i don't need to prove my claim- you must prove it false.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by AEsahaettr View Post
    AHAhaHAHAHA:
    But oh-so-vital to establish what the null hypothesis will be

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lily View Post
    But oh-so-vital to establish what the null hypothesis will be
    While you can hem and haw about what the null hypothesis should be, I think there's usually a pretty clear hypothesis that equates to nothing, or whatever would constitute such in the topic being debated. Let me pull up that last time I got into it.

    Edit: I just noticed you're a new member. (1) Welcome!! (2) I've realized I'm referring to one of a few threads that Drifter made a few months back, which would have been before you joined. Here we go. If you decide to read more of the thread, get drunk first.

    This is also reminding me of my arguments with BabyJessi where he claimed that the Christian view of the divine should be the null hypothesis in any debate about the nature or existence of God because it's the view that came first.

    By the way, where are you BabyJessi? I haven't seen you much since the last election. You openly invited anyone to give you crap if you were wrong about Rick Santorum winning the Presidency last November over the issue of religious freedom. I haven't gotten to do that yet and I'm sad.

    </threadjack>

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    Quote Originally Posted by AnalogRTO View Post
    Does anyone else find this good to have here or do you think it is a lost cause?
    There was a person who posted a bunch of crap in a thread a month or so ago, and I eventually spent somewhere around three hours to go through a month of his posts to document and cite every logical fallacy he had used. What did I get for it? A non-sensical response that was intended to refute my claims, but really didn't do anything beyond prove he was openly arguing in bad faith or just plain dumb as a sack of hammers. Scratch that; it also wasted three hours' worth of time and energy.

    For the record, I'm not referring to a post I made on this forum. Although I've done essentially the same thing here too.

    There are times it's not a lost cause. I remember one thread where I let Balto91 have it over issues with how he conducts himself around here. Surprisingly enough to me, and very much to his credit, he said that I wasn't wrong and was going to take my comments to heart. He hasn't been posting as much recently since he started getting negrepped, so I can't actually tell if it took hold or was one ear out the other, but sometimes you're blunt with another person (because anything else sails right by) and they get it. Most the time they don't, but once in a while they do.

    Beyond that, I do it for personal need as well. As much as I hate to be "that guy," I'm gonna go there. I was voted last year's Best Contributor despite the fact it was a pretty light year for me including a 14-week(ish) unannounced hiatus. How does that happen? As a result of vote rigging an army of secret duplicate accounts what can only be considered dumb luck having a good reputation. Compared to some of the old timers, I haven't been around here very long. Yet I have a significant pile of positive rep, I'm a Top Contributor, I'm an influential voice, and there are a few people I trust enough that I've willingly shared information privately that would allow them to find my RL identity quite easily. I have 3,282 posts here at the moment, plus ones that were wiped out last winter in The Purge. I'm a person held in high regard by my peers in this community. Why? I presume because I'm manipulative as fuck and you sheep haven't noticed yet I conduct myself in a manner that other people approve of- I try to be kind, supportive, and caring, but also honest, and tough, and when necessary, blunt. I want to help other people here, and other people help me a lot too. I don't do these things for the sake of my reputation, I do them because that's the person I want to be. But I do indeed realize the importance and power of reputation, and I also realize that doing the things I do are how my reputation is cultivated. If someone does something to threaten my reputation, I become a completely different person. I'm not supportive. I'm not friendly. I'm not nice. I come at someone with the wrath of god. I don't argue unfairly or in bad faith. But I also become merciless and pull no punches. I go for the kill. Why? Anywhere- real life, the internet, anywhere- my reputation is all I have. No skill, no credential, no knowledge will ever compare to the power of a reputation. I defend mine fervently. Threatening my reputation is no different than threatening my life. I defend it as such. I show my fiancee such posts here and elsewhere when they occasionally happen- it's good to have a dispassionate party let me know if my emotions carried me over any lines I don't want to cross. She'll tell me if I did, but also chide me for giving into There's someone wrong on the internet! syndrome. For me, it's not about that. I don't give a shit about a person who threatens me. I give a shit about me. And if I'm threatened in some way, I'm not going to sit around and acquiesce to it. My time and energy are going to be invested defending the only thing I've got.

    ...hey, do I smell pie?
    Last edited by AEsahaettr; 11-Jul-2013 at 04:26.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by AEsahaettr View Post
    AHAhaHAHAHA:
    Oh yeah? Then prove that monkeys don't fly out of my ass...

    Oh wait, they do. Damn!

    I took a writing class 12 years ago that used a small text book on persuasive logic. Each chapter illustrated a specific persuasive technique. We then had to write a number of papers persuading the reader based on a particular question. I found the class interesting and challenging.

    Some members on this site present their arguments brilliantly, and others as suggested, sound like they're drunk, which may be the case. I think it's what makes the site interesting, if not entertaining and amusing. The trick is to not get angered when someone doesn't understand what you are trying to say. I know because of the late hour, I don't always include everything I may be thinking. Sometimes I'll go back to the thread and try to clear up my point.

    As said, we're all entitled to our opinions, but they are better represented if there are facts to back them up, or they are rationally and logically presented. The poster always takes their chances, myself included.

  9. #9

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    if you were to ask me i think that it's just sad..... (down-cast eyes)

    a lot of very hyper-intelligent folks who need to be so absolutely right, so very badly, that they can't leave any room for the average-Joe's simple but flawed opinion.....

    it's bad enough when some poor kid posts what, for him is an emergency question that maybe doesn't have much by the way of punctuation (full of run-on sentences). but then the first response he gets is from some college-educated person telling him that with all that mental-prowess, somehow they can't seem to decipher the hastily written emergency post.....
    (good-grief)

    then ForeverSmall comes up with a perfectly reasonable idea that isn't hurting anyone. and rather then getting a few pats on the back and some positive support/affirmation, the thread turns into a big technocratic argument from which ForeverSmall can't disengage without conceding total failure....

    if it is not obvious to some of you people out there with Big-Brains.... you can either use them to tear the ideas of your fellow ADISC members down.. or you can use those Brains-the-size-of-a-planet (and i use that phrase with admiration) to very gently help your fellow ADISC member's. the choice is of course, yours...

    either way, it is very obvious to everyone, who you are. you really don't need to show-off your huge IQ's....

    thank you for your time;
    lodge wrecker....
    (brain the size of a pee...)
    Last edited by littlelodgewrecker; 11-Jul-2013 at 08:53.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by littlelodgewrecker View Post
    it's bad enough when some poor kid posts what, for him is an emergency question that maybe doesn't have much by the way of punctuation (full of run-on sentences). but then the first response he gets is from some college-educated joker telling him that with all that mental-prowess, somehow they can't seem to decipher the hastily written emergency post.....
    Your passive-aggressiveness in putting this where I'd see it but not calling me out by name is duly noted.

    Also, yes, you're right. The reason that I asked him to add some punctuation to his post was because I'm all high-and-mighty and better than everyone and looking to take other people down a notch. My request had absolutely nothing to do with the fact that I take medication which at times makes reading text on backlit electronic screens extremely difficult. How could that possibly have been compounded by trying to read a sentence without missing any details which span five lines while lacking any kind of punctuation or capitalization? I sure as hell can't imagine how that could be relevant.

    Edit: Also, after reading the revised post, I did have a number of constructive thoughts for Zackiepooh but didn't have time to post then and there. After closing the thread I plum forgot about it until now. I tend to completely forget about threads unless there's a new notification in my Inbox of a reply to something I posted (I'd already clicked the earlier one) and I don't read that forum on a daily basis so I didn't see it again. I'll see if I can get back to it after work tomorrow.
    Last edited by AEsahaettr; 11-Jul-2013 at 06:58.

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